Remembrance Day Services 1: 2003-2021


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TLLK said:
A very interesting development as QEII and DoE begin their transition to leaving more with the PoW.
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I wouldn't say that they begin their transition. The transition has been underway for quite some time. For example, the prince of Wales has been representing the Queen at the Commonwealth meetings and in general, the queen and duke of Edinburgh haven't done foreign trips for several years. Furthermore, the queen has reduced her number of work days (spending more time at Windsor and less at Buckingham Palace) which is also part of reducing her workload. This is just another visible sign that she is also starting to give up some of the very high profile activities in the UK itself.
 
ROYAL NORWAY said:
Are people really surprised by this? She's 91.

2. Philip wanted to be on the balcony, the Queen then decided to be there with him.
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Which was not a necessity as their are multiple other family members.

3. And as Alastair Bruce said on Sky News: ''The requirement was that she should take a pretty heavy wreath, go up a number of steps, lay it in precisely the right place, walk backwards down some steps. She's done that for over 60 years, but perhaps now she's 91, its much more dignified to have her up in the balcony watching the event. And the Prince of Wales who is a young man by comparison, is perfect to do the job.''
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This makes sense and the combination of the activity (and of course the queen wants to do it with perfection if she does it) and Philip's preference for the balcony make it a very logical decision.

4. She's in excellent health and will have a bunch of engagements - starting tomorrow.
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For her age.

6. And I don't think wyevale meant that HM was a sinking ship or that he wanted her to abdicate, because he wrote this in the abdication thread:

7. And for the 100000th time, the Queen can't/won't abdicate, because that would be disastrous for the monarchy.

8. And this isn't Queen Juliana, this is the most popular/iconic/famous head of state in the world, head of state of 16 countries and the figurehead of two billion people.
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I truly don't see how an abdication would be disastrous for the monarchy. It wasn't disastrous for the pope/catholic church nor does it seem to be disastrous for the emperor of Japan (although not everyone likes his decision)! So, the Queen CAN abdicate but she will surely not do so...

And I gave the example of Juliana to share a situation in which I would think that abdicating would be wiser than not abdicating: if someone is not able to think or speak coherently (royals are not exempt from dementia, coma, a stroke, etc.) an abdication makes way more sense than holding on to the throne just for the sake of it - although if a situation like that occurs unexpectedly, I don't know what the procedure would be. A regency in my book should be a temporary solution not a permanent one. Nonetheless, I hope that the queen is able to fulfil her duty until the end as that is clearly her wish.
 
:previous:

If the Queen was in coma, had dementia etc then it would be a regency situation as she would not be in a fit mental state to sign the abdication documents.

That is why there was 10 years of Regency for George III.

That's my understanding of the current legal situation but that could change if via an Act of Parliament.
 
sndral said:
More likely mobility issues w/ her majesty, but it could just be part of the slow handover of duties to P. Charles.
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I've read the responses, so I know the general trending in them. :flowers: You are the sole poster to mention mobility for HM and that has been something I have been wondering about given what I see in pictures (having seen such up close myself with older relations). Is it generally acknowledged that HM is becoming infirm in that way? Just wondering.

I did see the caveat given that HM is in excellent health 'for her age'. There is room for a lot of interpretation in that caveat. Just wondering. It must be very difficult times for Charles, and Anne (I would think), as well as the other siblings, and now William, etc. :sad:
 
The Queen no longer climbs up and down the narrow steps of St George's during the Garter ceremony and hasn't for some time.

I don't regard this as the inevitable first step to a regency situation but that of a very old lady of 91 who would rather not stand about in the cold, carry a quite heavy wreath, or more importantly, IMHO, bend down to lay it then back down steps in the mark of respect after the wreath laying. She's 91 years old and if she feels that she would be a bit unsure of her footing in doing that then that's her perogative surely!
 
Lady Nimue said:
I've read the responses, so I know the general trending in them. :flowers: You are the sole poster to mention mobility for HM and that has been something I have been wondering about given what I see in pictures (having seen such up close myself with older relations). Is it generally acknowledged that HM is becoming infirm in that way? Just wondering.

I did see the caveat given that HM is in excellent health 'for her age'. There is room for a lot of interpretation in that caveat. Just wondering. It must be very difficult times for Charles, and Anne (I would think), as well as the other siblings, and now William, etc. :sad:
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The Queen and Philip are in great shape for their ages, but reality is they are in their 90s. You physically do not have the stamina, flexibility, stability to do everything you always did. That doesn't mean she is "infirm."
 
Lady Nimue said:
Is it generally acknowledged that HM is becoming infirm in that way?
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Depends what you think are serious mobility issues. The Queen, apparently, has knee problems.
However, she was riding her pony a few weeks ago and a couple of days ago she was photographed climbing up airplane steps alone, with no one hovering around her. So, my guess is she’s doing fine for everyday things and better than some people 20 years younger I know.
 
O-H Anglophile said:
The Queen and Philip are in great shape for their ages, but reality is they are in their 90s. You physically do not have the stamina, flexibility, stability to do everything you always did. That doesn't mean she is "infirm."
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Not here to step on anyone's toes. :flowers: One can be infirm and be in one's 20's and 30's. I have had such happen to me after a bout of unwise physical exertion in the desert one summer. Yikes! Yes, I was infirm for several weeks. Watching HM with a certain eye she does look to be on a certain trajectory, but 'for her age' is doing well. 'Nuf said.
 
cepe said:
All I have read is that Philip wanted to attend (although not participate directly) and would view from a balcony. HMQ decided that she would attend/stand with Philip and therefore asked Charles to lay her wreath (which is on behalf of the Nation). Philips wreath is to be laid by an Equery and Charles will lay his own wreath.

That's all the info I've seen.
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Thank you, cepe. :flowers: Now I understand. I could also imagine this story (sounding so reasonable) being a way of achieving her bowing out.

irish_royalist said:
Sad as this may be, it absolutely makes sense. HM and the DoE have managed walking backwards down the steps of the cenotaph, after laying their wreaths, without incident until now - just imagine if either of them stumbled or even fell? At their age? A fracture could easily result.
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Absolutely! :sad:

irish_royalist said:
They have done so with dignity and agility - and may I say, at times with more stability than the PoW!
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What happened? :ermm: Has Charles tottered? Bumped into a soldier? A post? ;)

irish_royalist said:
We will have to face more of these changes in the future unfortunately, but I don't think we should read too much into it re. abdication etc etc
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I am not one of her subjects but if I were, I would much prefer to see the old folks taking it easy than be 'forced' (by their own reasoning to an insistent public) to stay at activities that left to their own personal wishes they would rather stop.

O-H Anglophile said:
I think it is just an acknowledgment that Philip and the Queen have reached very advanced ages and ceremonial standing & walking have become more difficult.
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That's clear. :sad: They need to be given some slack. JMO.
 
Queen Elizabeth doesn’t know she put a lump in my throat today. Yet I smile knowing she made another decision for her monarchy. Fragile, most probably. Slower, no doubt. With ever changing tomorrow’s I smile knowing they’ll be more lumps. Such grace.
 
Princess Larisa said:
Depends what you think are serious mobility issues. The Queen, apparently, has knee problems.

However, she was riding her pony a few weeks ago and a couple of days ago she was photographed climbing up airplane steps alone, with no one hovering around her. So, my guess is she’s doing fine for everyday things and better than some people 20 years younger I know.
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Knee problems are serious. :sad: Fells the best of us. And if there is not a rigorous work-out regimen, with a solid dose of yoga/pilates (or activities of that sort), the end is determined sorry to say: mobility issues in spades. JMO, of course, but I have seen a lot, too. I know whereof I speak.

Actually, it's what impresses me about William and Kate. They clearly have a work-out regimen. William, so tall, maintains a very slim profile. His back is straight. Good role model for that alone. In fact, I wish they would talk more about physical conditioning. Weight training in particular produces pheromones, mood altering/mood elevating, that off-set depression, for example. Talk therapy has it's negatives, but physical excellence has no downside. Would be great if they started stressing physical culture. JMO. (Off Topic, but my special issue). ;)
 
I can definitely identify with HM and knee issues. If someone has knee problems, like I do, as a person ages, the affected areas of the body tend to be the first place to show age.

The Queen has a good quarter of a century on me but she has been more mobile and has been able to stand and walk much better than I can. For me, walking backwards down steps (like at the Cenotaph) would be a nightmare. Steps are a nightmare for me as is the simple thing of getting in and out of a bathtub. Concessions are just being made to make things easier on the Queen when it comes to the Remembrance Service. She still will be there representing her people.

Another aspect of all this that warms my heart is the fact that even though Philip has actively retired from public duties, nothing would be said or thought of something being amiss should the DoE not even attend the ceremony. As it was stated that all of this came about because the DoE *wants* to be there, that, to me, shows more sentiment and respect for those that have given the ultimate sacrifice for their country than if Philip had laid a wreath himself. The Queen, ever mindful of the man at her side for 70 years, wants to stand side by side with him this year and to me, that speaks volumes.

Charles may lay the Queen's wreath for her but there is no doubt in my mind that this elderly couple, wherever they stand, will reflect the country's deep respect and appreciation to the men and women that have fallen and given the ultimate sacrifice to keep our world the place it is.

The Remembrance Service this year may be a bit different but nothing is going to detract meaning from it.
 
One more fact:
Charles has laid a wreath before on behalf of the Queen, in 1983 when she was out of the country, and when the monarch was in South Africa in 1999 she laid a wreath at the Cenotaph in Durban.
From DM
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The explanation that she wants to stand in balcony bcos DoE is there, I don't buy that. So tomorrow if the DoE is not able to attend Trooping, will she sit in BP without going? No. I think it's mostly bcos of the steps issue. Or to make Charles more high profile.
And note the safety-netting that BRF always does... This may be changed next year. So if public opinion wavers anytime then HM can once again jump into centre-stage
 
if the DoE is not able to attend Trooping, will she sit in BP without going?
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'Trooping' is in the warmth of June, whilst Remembrance Sunday in November is often BITTERLY cold and rainy. It does make sense to me that this elderly and devoted couple want to be together at a deeply meaningful occasion for both of them. They will be aware that they may not be together for it for very many years...
 
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Personally, I don't think public opinion has any bearing on what HM does or does not do. She always has been one that feels that her public needs to see her to be believed. There may be multiple factions on why she's opting to stand on a balcony this year but, to be honest, its not something that will be explained to the public. Remember the motto: Never complain, never explain.

All the reasons that you stated though, vkrish, make perfect sense to me.
 
vkrish said:
The explanation that she wants to stand in balcony bcos DoE is there, I don't buy that. So tomorrow if the DoE is not able to attend Trooping, will she sit in BP without going? No. I think it's mostly bcos of the steps issue. Or to make Charles more high profile.
And note the safety-netting that BRF always does... This may be changed next year. So if public opinion wavers anytime then HM can once again jump into centre-stage
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Intereting perspective. I didn't see it that way. She has never said or indicated that she wouldn't do certain things because the duke couldn't be present (quite the contrary) - moreover, there is quite a difference between 'not going' and attending in a different way (remember that several family members watch from the balcony, I am sure they consider it as a ceremony they attend).

As the duke expressed his desire to join her to this remembrance ceremony but standing and laying a wrath would be too much for him, the queen has decided to accompany him (a few days before their 70th wedding anniversary!) instead of struggling through it herself. If the duke would not be able to join at all next year, the situation would be different, so the queen might reconsider. I do think both aspects (the presence of the duke on the balcony and her own health) have been taken into account in this decision.
 
vkrish said:
The explanation that she wants to stand in balcony bcos DoE is there, I don't buy that. So tomorrow if the DoE is not able to attend Trooping, will she sit in BP without going? No. I think it's mostly bcos of the steps issue. Or to make Charles more high profile.
And note the safety-netting that BRF always does... This may be changed next year. So if public opinion wavers anytime then HM can once again jump into centre-stage
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Why wouldn't she want to stand with her husband. They are the few, those left who lived through WWII and those who served, she in the ATS and he in the Royal Navy. This is their Remembrance and hardly surprising they plan to spend it together.

I am with those who believe that they are not just The Queen and her Consort representing their contemporaries, but rather "the few" who should also get the chance to remember in their own way, the way the rest of 'the few" get to do it. But they will never be in wheelchairs all rugged up against the biting November weather. They have forestalled this eventuality and are doing it their way. More power to both of them!
 
Majesty/Joe Little‏ @MajestyMagazine
The royal party for this Saturday's @PoppyLegion Festival of Remembrance at the Royal Albert Hall.
https://twitter.com/x/status/927553920037261312
The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh
The Prince of Wales and the Duchess of Cornwall
The Duchess of Cambridge
The Duke of York
The Earl and Countess of Wessex
The Princess Royal and Vice Admiral Sir Tim Laurence
The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester
The Duke of Kent
Prince and Princess Michael of Kent
Princess Alexandra, the Honourable Lady Ogilvy
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Wonderful! I always look forward to this event, and what a great turn-out.
 
The fact that Kate is attending without William suggest William will be at a different engagement that conflicts with the Royal Albert Hall event. Harry has never gone to this particular event so him not going again isn’t surprising
 
It has puzzled me on why Harry never attended, when he served two tours of duty in Afghanistan.

William probably have another event to attend that day. I’m sure he’ll be back for Remembrance Sunday at the Cenotaph.
 
I notice there are 2 performances. Do the royals attend the afternoon or evening performance at royal albert?

If its the evening its a tad disappointing Harry is not attending. The evening event doesn't start until 7. Rugby should be over by 5:00 or so. I would be nice to see him starting to attend, as a former veteran.

But at least there is a good turn out of senior royals.
 
Countessmeout said:
I notice there are 2 performances. Do the royals attend the afternoon or evening performance at royal albert?

If its the evening its a tad disappointing Harry is not attending. The evening event doesn't start until 7. Rugby should be over by 5:00 or so. I would be nice to see him starting to attend, as a former veteran.

But at least there is a good turn out of senior royals.
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The princes will be at rugby matches in an official capacity. It means handshakes, chats, speeches, etc. after the game.
 
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