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  #581  
Old 11-09-2014, 03:43 PM
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The tone changed once we found out Harry is in Afghanistan. Twitter and even some comments here went to all lengths to come up with a reason. At first on Twitter the line was only royal colonels attend so that's why Harry wasn't at the Cenotaph, some said we all know Harry supports the Army so he doesn't have to do things like the Cenotaph.

The tone and comments changed after Afghanistan came out, then the same people proclaimed well we know why Harry isn't at the Cenotaph.
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  #582  
Old 11-09-2014, 04:09 PM
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Remembrance Sunday | The Remembrance Sunday 2014
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  #583  
Old 11-09-2014, 04:12 PM
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The Remembrance Sunday Ceremony in London despite the tight security must have been one of the largest.It was great to see the Queen and members of the Royal Family at the Cenotaph in London amid the media rumors of an extremist plot.
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  #584  
Old 11-09-2014, 04:14 PM
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Do you ever get the sense that reporters on Twitter are reading our arguments and instead of engaging in them here respond them on Twitter?
I definitely think some of the trolling that starts on Twitter gets dragged over here. And, as in this case, it adds little to the content of the Forums, IMHO.
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  #585  
Old 11-09-2014, 04:18 PM
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At least we didn't the OMG Kate smiled during the Cenotaph service debate that we normally get each year.


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Some tried but it didn't get legs and died out.
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  #586  
Old 11-09-2014, 04:23 PM
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Unbelievable! On the other hand I think no terrorist who seriously wants to perform an attack announces it beforehand. This seems to be attention-seeking primarily and to put authorities into fear. Everyone with a clear mind will know that after such an announcement security measures, very tight these days anyway, will be even stricter.
Without being an expert my guess is that a non-announced terrorist attack is what we really have to be scared of!
God save the Queen!!!
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  #587  
Old 11-09-2014, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
The tone changed once we found out Harry is in Afghanistan. Twitter and even some comments here went to all lengths to come up with a reason. At first on Twitter the line was only royal colonels attend so that's why Harry wasn't at the Cenotaph, some said we all know Harry supports the Army so he doesn't have to do things like the Cenotaph.

The tone and comments changed after Afghanistan came out, then the same people proclaimed well we know why Harry isn't at the Cenotaph.
I agree with you that Harry should be at a service on Remembrance Sunday and it does seem odd that he's not typically at the big one at the Cenotaph.

However, there is no need to judge him this year as he's attending a rather important service with troops currently serving overseas. Last year he attended the service at the Cenotaph, the year before he was serving overseas at the time, and the year before that he was in the US representing the Queen. Two of the three years before then (2008 and 2010) he could be criticized for not attending the service at the Cenotaph (the third year he did attend it), but he was still attending a service in general. Really, the only year I personally would question why he wasn't at Cenotaph was in 2010, but even then... Royal Wootton Bassett is where the bodies of servicemen and women who were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan were being repatriated to between 2007 and 2011.
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  #588  
Old 11-09-2014, 04:30 PM
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I don't think that a day where the Queen is surrounded by armed military guards and thousands of veterans would be a place to try something. Even the men of the royal family have on swords.


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  #589  
Old 11-09-2014, 04:48 PM
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I really don't get the problem with Harry (or any other member of the BRF) not being at the main festivities...its not like he is chilling on the beach. From all reports, any time a BRF member has not been at Cenotaph, they have been at another remembrance celebration.

IMO it appears that some are trying to find fault when there is none, or have no knowledge of other activities outside Cenotaph.
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  #590  
Old 11-09-2014, 04:54 PM
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Well said Zonk! all this fury at Harry is beyond me
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  #591  
Old 11-09-2014, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Harry doesn't attend this event?

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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
I'm shocked. Harry is touted as the family's resident 'military man' and he doesn't attend the Remembrance Service even as a bystander? Bad form if you ask me

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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Even if not taking part there is zero reason Harry can't there today. Last Thursday wasn't the Remembrance Service, today is.

Anyway I know how these discussions about Harry end up. He has a perpetual get out of jail free card.
Well yes, his absence was noted and, to anyone with half a brain that merely signified that he was at a Remembrance Service somewhere else, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, etc. because his attendance at a Memorial Service was a 'given'. "A get out of jail free card" was not!
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Its odd Harry attends every other military related event throughout the year to honour the troops but on the ultimate day of honour he is nowhere to be found.

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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
That could be it. Harry as a serving officer is at the office today. Maybe he's catching up on the that paperwork.
Yes it was odd that he attended a service the Thursday before but, that made his absence all the more significant because not only was it obvious he was representing HM Queen Elizabeth elsewhere, but the question had become "where".

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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
^^^ Which in my opinion is absolutely bad form. Especially for someone so involved with veterans and their charities
And yes, of course, the obligatory ignorant slagging off regardless of where HM sent him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JessRulz View Post
Ryan Hooper @RyanJHooper · 14m minutes ago
BREAKING: Prince #Harry returned to Afghanistan today to lead Remembrance service tributes on behalf of the Queen. Story on PA Wire.
https://twitter.com/RyanJHooper/stat...55071306129408

Richard Palmer ‏@RoyalReporter 2m2 minutes ago
In Kandahar today, Prince Harry met service personnel, including RAF Tornado pilots providing close air support to Afghan operations.
https://twitter.com/RoyalReporter/st...59268646813696

Such bad form Harry...
Thanks Jess, your info was very timely, since one or two of our posters have become arrogant in their ignorance.
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
So before we knew Harry was in Afghanistan, people said the excuse he isn't at the Cenotaph is because he doesn't normally go. Now he's in Afghanistan and people are saying that's the reason he's isn't at the cenotaph?
Well it's not like Afghanistan is just around the corner so her could attend both services, so yes, of course people are saying thats the reason he isn't at the cenortaph!

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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
And his usual non attendance at the Remembrance Service is bad form. I'm back to my original opinion
You never left your original opinion.

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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
'Humble pie' at all Rudolph ?
Fat chance I'd say.

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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
'There is no greater love than to lay down one's life for one's friends': Prince Harry leaves emotional tribute as he returns to Afghanistan | Daily Mail Online

Prince Harry returned to Afghanistan today on behalf of the Queen as he led emotional tributes to friends who died in the name of war.
It was a highly symbolic return for the Prince, who was posted to the country to serve in the war in 2007-08 and again in 2012-13.
The 30-year-old left a highly personal wreath at Kandahar Airfield which read: 'There is no greater love than to lay down one's life for one's friends. They will never be forgotten. Harry.'

So there, hope that proves that he does his bit and that he's committed to the military, rather GOOD form I'd say.

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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Not at all. Harry this year is in Afghanistan. Nothing keeps him from being at the Cenotaph any other year. He's never been there as either a teen or adult. Bad form imo
Oh dear, Harry can do nothing "right" in your book. To almost everyone else, sharing a Rememberance Day Service "in the field" is a sterling reason not to be On Parade with the family. Has it occured to you that those servicemen and women are what Rememberance day is all about?

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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
Its the same every year. Harry this year is in Afghanistan, Anne is in Canada. Other years Charles is away or William was in Afghanistan in 2011 but when they aren't away they are at the Cenotaph. It's national event not just for the BRF but for the country and Commonwealth.

This year aside, I think Harry should be attending this event. All the men in the BRF have served in the Armed Services so we know they support it. They all have military charities but they still attend this event at the Cenotaph. To say we know Harry supports the Army so the Cenotaph doesn't matter just doesn't cut it imo.

There is a reason royals gather for large national events. Using the logic that it only matters what they do throughout the year and not on one single day, then none of the royals need show up at Trooping the Colour since we all know they love the Queen and don't need to appear at her Bday celebration.

National events are national for a reason.
OK, you have just reduced Remembrance Day to a very important Royal Pagent so it becomes
just another bit of tourist oriented pagentry that sells tickets to the UK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
some info re Harry and Remembrance Day events. As I said before, he could be on duty/with his regiment

Via @_peppersmint_ on twitter

Last 6 years: 2008: with his regiment, 2009: Cenotaph, 2010: private church service Wootton Bassett 2011: remembrance parade Arizona, 2012: Afghanistan while on duty, 2013: Cenotaph, 2014: Afghanistan

All other members of BRF were present except Anne and Tim who are in Canada/US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
I found this interesting. William and Andrew have done Remembrance day in Afghanistan before. But check out this link from the royal website with the previous royal visits to Iraq and Afghanistan most probably got no press mention

http://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchUK/Ar...ghanistan.aspx
So Harry hasn't been skiving off, ducking his duty and kicking back in the sun! And that list of visits to the troops "in theatre" is pretty amazing.

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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
Unbelievable! On the other hand I think no terrorist who seriously wants to perform an attack announces it beforehand. This seems to be attention-seeking primarily and to put authorities into fear. Everyone with a clear mind will know that after such an announcement security measures, very tight these days anyway, will be even stricter.
Without being an expert my guess is that a non-announced terrorist attack is what we really have to be scared of!
God save the Queen!!!
The terrorists didn't "announce" it. It came to light during an operation and subsequent arrests against possible terrorist links in the UK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
I don't think that a day where the Queen is surrounded by armed military guards and thousands of veterans would be a place to try something. Even the men of the royal family have on swords.
Bombs and bombers do not differentiate between Royals, Veterans, Military, Police or civilians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
I really don't get the problem with Harry (or any other member of the BRF) not being at the main festivities...its not like he is chilling on the beach. From all reports, any time a BRF member has not been at Cenotaph, they have been at another remembrance celebration.

IMO it appears that some are trying to find fault when there is none, or have no knowledge of other activities outside Cenotaph.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty91charmed View Post
Well said Zonk! all this fury at Harry is beyond me
It's indicative of the mindset of some of our newer members that seem to think that the BRF, and others for that matter, are merely pawns or puppets to be moved around to their satisfaction. And, when it seems they are not "performing" to standards, well we only have to see some of the comments here.

I am both amazed and shocked that this Remebrance Day Observances have been ripped from their "place" and used as a club to beat up the BRF.
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  #592  
Old 11-09-2014, 06:34 PM
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I didn't understand all this fuss about Harry either. This Nip-picking about the do and don't of the BRF (for the wrong reasons at the end) on this special day is just plain crass imo.
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  #593  
Old 11-09-2014, 06:40 PM
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The report was a threat to kill the Queen with a knife not a bomb. A knife attack would require being in close contact to the Queen which would be difficult to do at today's service.


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  #594  
Old 11-09-2014, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
It's indicative of the mindset of some of our newer members that seem to think that the BRF, and others for that matter, are merely pawns or puppets to be moved around to their satisfaction. And, when it seems they are not "performing" to standards, well we only have to see some of the comments here.

I am both amazed and shocked that this Remebrance Day Observances have been ripped from their "place" and used as a club to beat up the BRF.
I don't think it's fair to single out new members of the forum. It's not like older members don't voice their opinions and dissatisfaction, when a royal isn't perceived to be doing their job correctly. I've seen just as many harsh comments from older members towards the royals.

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At least we didn't the OMG Kate smiled during the Cenotaph service debate that we normally get each year.


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Very true.
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  #595  
Old 11-09-2014, 07:34 PM
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I am both amazed and shocked that this Remebrance Day Observances have been ripped from their "place" and used as a club to beat up the BRF.
Well said Marg and you speak for many of us. I don't want to drag us off topic, but I think we are seeing more trolls and baiters on the forums of late. If you don't feed the trolls, they go and feed elsewhere.

Opinions are great and all are welcome. But there is a diffrence between opinion and smear. Snide comments, just like over-the-top-obsessive-adoration bore me, and I think they bore a lot of the rest of us. Back to the topic at hand.

It really was a spectacular day with the bravery of the Queen, the dedication of those who protect her, the obvious appreciation of the entire family for the ultimate price paid. A sense of duty in this family is ever present in some form. They may disappoint with some behavior, but on the really big issues, they get it.
I think about Lady Louise or James seeing news about the arrest of the plotters and wondering if their Granny or Daddy might be harmed. That's the reality for the BRF and for members of the services. Risk shared. Duty shared.
It's just far more impressive than anything any of us do here on the forums. That helps me keep all this in context.
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  #596  
Old 11-09-2014, 07:48 PM
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Remembrance days all over the world are usually set aside for us to slow down in our everyday lives and take time out to remember, reflect and honor those that have given the ultimate sacrifice to preserve our way of life.

In the UK, the British Royal Family represents the country as a whole as they gather at the Cenotaph to remember those that have fallen. It has become a tradition. It has meaning, it has ceremony, and it certainly gives one pause to remember.

Should Harry, as a member of the British Royal Family, have a more ceremonial role on Remembrance Days to come? IMO, I think he will once he needs to remember. As I see it, as much as Harry is involved in the military from his active duty, to his campaign to bring the well being and strengths of those wounded in action to the forefront with Walking With The Wounded and the Invictus Games and other organizations, to always keeping his compatriots in arms in the forefront of his thoughts and very much keeping in touch, those that are thought of and remembered by us one day a year are a way of life everyday for Harry. To me, this is what speaks out loud and clear.
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  #597  
Old 11-09-2014, 08:06 PM
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I'm not sure whether this has been referred to yet and I have no wish to go back through the previous pages but I thought the participation of the Irish Ambassador was a lovely touch.
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  #598  
Old 11-09-2014, 08:08 PM
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As the past few years as shown, if the argument was about Catherine alleged bad form, this conversation would have gone on for 10 pages with a moderator eventually coming in, closing this thread and making deletion. People are always accusing a member of the BRF something.
The past three years, it was Catherine and her smile even when Camilla and Sophie was smiling with her. This year it seems to be Harry turn.
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  #599  
Old 11-09-2014, 08:19 PM
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^^^ With sub-threads about whether Kate smiled or was it a smirk.
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Old 11-09-2014, 08:48 PM
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^^^ With sub-threads about whether Kate smiled or was it a smirk.
Really?

I'm of the opinion that when royals behave inappropriately they should be called on it. I think if Kate behaves inappropriately at a Remembrance Day service she should be criticized for it. Or if Harry isn't attending any Remembrance Day services at all, he should be criticized for it. Or whatever.

I do think that you've raised a valid point in the past that when it comes to their working lives, Harry seems to get away with more than the Cambridges - we accept that Harry is working in the military and as such don't criticize him, but even when we are told what William and Kate are doing we often criticize them for not being visible enough. There is a bias towards the Cambridges because we expect to see them doing more - they are, after all, a future king and queen, while Harry's only the spare. This isn't entirely fair of us.

However, to say that whenever the Cambridges are perceived as screwing up by people who are determined to nitpick them there's 10 pages of commentary attacking them, but there's never any commentary nitpicking Harry is ridiculous. First of all those 10 pages (or however many pages it ends up being) are frequently more people attacking those who dare criticize the Cambridges than anyone actually criticizing them. Second of all, while some of the criticism towards the Cambridges is clearly just trolls determined to attack them (i.e. when she was criticized for smiling during a service, despite the fact that Sophie and Camilla were also smiling; similar criticism pops up in the Sarah threads) and some of it is very subjective (i.e. whether or not the Cambridges are adequately fulfilling their royal responsibilities), a good chunk of it is actually pretty valid and based on them making mistakes (i.e. Kate ending up with her bare butt on the front pages of tabloids). Harry isn't free from this criticism either; he gets a lot of subjective criticism about his personal life, and a fair amount of valid criticism when he's screwed up (the Nazi uniform, the racial slurs, the Vegas trip, etc). You may not like the criticism of the Cambridges, but you're fooling yourself if you think that Harry is getting a free pass.

Finally, and most importantly, what exactly is there to criticize about Harry's Remembrance Day activities this year? Or in years past? I would get it if he was using his Thursday service as a means to get out of going to a service today - and I disagree strongly with the earlier excuses of "he must be at the office" and what not; had he skipped out on going to a service he would be deserving of criticism - but as we've seen, Harry hasn't missed a single Remembrance Day in the last few years (no one's provided any account of what he was doing before 2008, but I doubt it was not going to a service). He may not be at the main service every year, or even most years, but his behaviour isn't actually requiring criticism. Harry's not being given a pass, he's not actually done anything that deserves criticism. You're the only one who seems to not get it.
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