Remembrance Day Services 1: 2003-2021

[EIIR]

I do hope Charles will be back in attendence next year...the chap who laid (or should I say chucked) his wreath for him almost bumped into Prince Michael!

Well put, Jack. I couldn't help but cringe as the wreath made such a thump when Lord Guthrie just let it go. He seemed to find the whole thing pretty awkward. I'll bet he's hoping that the PoW is back next year too .

 

[Dman]

I think The Prince of Wales will be at the Remembrance Ceremony next year. Obviously the Diamond Jubilee Tour just clashed with this event and Charles & Camilla couldn't attend.

 

[AdmirerUS]

Someone earlier in this thread noted that Sophie, Duchess of Wessex was wearing a Canadian poppy and wondered about that. I can only guess that it was perhaps received as a gift on the couple's Jubilee visit to Canada and had special meaning in that way.

But as an American it made me wonder what the heck the difference between the poppies was. Let me know if I have made any errors.

Officially (and yes there are variations, based on who makes them) from the vets agencies of the various counties, here is the style of the poppy:

Britain - two petals, black center and oak leaf
Canada - Four petals (often though, all one piece), black center (and for a while earlier a green center)
New Zealand - two petals, flat, black center
AU - Four petals, black center

RSL in AU, BTW has a great poppy logo -with silhouette veterans placed as stamens in the poppy. http://www.givenow.com.au/images/org/o00743-1.png

Here in the US - poppies are usually made of red crepe paper. I remember making them as an art project one year at school. We wear them on our Memorial Day, May 31, though I got a lot of LIKES on FB when I added a poppy to my avatar on FB over the weekend.

 

[tundra]

Canada still has the green centres. I've rarely seen black ones.

 

[Queen Penelope]

Canada still has the green centres. I've rarely seen black ones.

Here in AB (and maybe just in my area?) I've only seen the black centered ones in the last couple years.

 

[NGalitzine]

Canada still has the green centres. I've rarely seen black ones.

It must depend on where you get them. I got mine in Toronto and it has a black centre. I haven't seen a green centre for some years now.

 

[Molly2101]

Someone earlier in this thread noted that Sophie, Duchess of Wessex was wearing a Canadian poppy and wondered about that. I can only guess that it was perhaps received as a gift on the couple's Jubilee visit to Canada and had special meaning in that way.

But as an American it made me wonder what the heck the difference between the poppies was. Let me know if I have made any errors.

Officially (and yes there are variations, based on who makes them) from the vets agencies of the various counties, here is the style of the poppy:

Britain - two petals, black center and oak leaf
Canada - Four petals (often though, all one piece), black center (and for a while earlier a green center)
New Zealand - two petals, flat, black center
AU - Four petals, black center

RSL in AU, BTW has a great poppy logo -with silhouette veterans placed as stamens in the poppy. http://www.givenow.com.au/images/org/o00743-1.png

Here in the US - poppies are usually made of red crepe paper. I remember making them as an art project one year at school. We wear them on our Memorial Day, May 31, though I got a lot of LIKES on FB when I added a poppy to my avatar on FB over the weekend.

I am quite sure Sophie wore her Canadian poppy last year as well. It is perhaps because she has a Regiment in Canada?

 

[Rocketmom]

I'm curious why Tim Laurence was relegated to the balcony with other spouses, especially since he had a full military career. Why not have him stand with his wife to present a wreath? Is it because the royal family considers him to be "merely" a royal spouse?

Also, who were the gentlemen who had red collars? I haven't seen a close-up picture to make out who they are.

 

[cepe]

Tim Lawrence is, as you say, a royal spouse but the reason for not presenting a wraeth at the Cenotaph is that he is not (a) a working member of the royal family and (b) not a colonel in chief, full admiral, Air Marshall etc. The Queen has always been very strict about who takes part in events of national significance.

The gentlemen with red collars are wearing the uniform of the Wessex Yeomanry. Prince Edward is Hon.Colonel of the regiment and he laid a wreath.

 

[Jacknch]

According to the Royal Order of Sartorial Splendour..."the Countess of Wessex is wearing the badge of the 5th Battalion The Rifles of which she is Royal Colonel".

Sophie is also Colonel-in-Chief of the South Alberta Light Horse Regiment and Colonal-in-Chief of the Lincoln and Welland Regiment, both of which are Canadian, which must be why she is wearing a Canadian poppy.

 

[Dman]

Well, Tim Laurence is a Vice Admiral of The Royal Navy and is on board of The Commonwealth War Graves Commission. It seems like The Queen decided who lays wreaths at The Cenotaph. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir

 

[Lumutqueen]

Well, Tim Laurence is a Vice Admiral of The Royal Navy and is on board of The Commonwealth War Graves Commission. It seems like The Queen decided who lays wreaths at The Cenotaph. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir

I doubt it's The Queen who decides who lays a wreath after all, it's a national event of remembrance.
I believe this question comes up every year, he doesn't lay a wreath because he is the spouse of a royal, and not a born royal. The only spouses who lay wreaths are wives/husbands of the Monarch.

When he served, where he served or what he does now doesn't come into it, seeing as Prince Edward and Princess Anne lay wreaths and neither have received military training or served in the forces.

 

[Molly2101]

I do think it is a shame that Tim does not lay a wreath, but as others have mentioned; it is likely because he is not an "HRH", nor is he a working member of the family (even though he attends some things with Anne). I saw an image of him salute as he left the balcony after Catherine and Sophie, which was lovely. I do like Tim, he appears to be lovely and the images we saw of him pushing little Savannah's pushchair melted me at an event with the family were lovely.

Prince Edward has only been laying a wreath since 2007, as it was pointed out that Sophie was not there to watch him as she was pregnant. How long as Anne been doing it?

 

[AdmirerUS]

I doubt it's The Queen who decides who lays a wreath after all, it's a national event of remembrance.
I believe this question comes up every year, he doesn't lay a wreath because he is the spouse of a royal, and not a born royal. The only spouses who lay wreaths are wives/husbands of the Monarch.

When he served, where he served or what he does now doesn't come into it, seeing as Prince Edward and Princess Anne lay wreaths and neither have received military training or served in the forces.

I'm guessing here, but given Lawrence's almost 40 years in the Navy, and having come from a family in the Navy, he no doubt has some private remembrances he makes on the day.

Personally, I like his style - in the background, supportive, strong (apparently). Given the tendency to centralize the core of the monarch's family in service, I doubt we will see any expansion of his public duties any time soon. And that seems to suit Tim and Anne just fine.

 

[Rocketmom]

I do think it is a shame that Tim does not lay a wreath, but as others have mentioned; it is likely because he is not an "HRH", nor is he a working member of the family (even though he attends some things with Anne). I saw an image of him salute as he left the balcony after Catherine and Sophie, which was lovely. I do like Tim, he appears to be lovely and the images we saw of him pushing little Savannah's pushchair melted me at an event with the family were lovely.

I totally agree. He seems like a quietly strong individual who is ok with remaining in the background. He apparently has quite a good relationship with Zara and Peter. I've heard them speak of him very fondly in interviews. This thing about not being born a royal bothers me. If you are a member of the royal family you should not be made to feel that you are second class because of how you were born. But that's just me being a U.S. citizen. British citizens have lived with this for hundreds of years so I'm sure it makes more sense to them.

 

[Spheno]

If you are a member of the royal family you should not be made to feel that you are second class because of how you were born.

Tim is not member of the royal family.

 

[cepe]

I am reminded of a quote from Princess Margaret.

"My children are not royal; they just happen to have Queen for their aunt."

and of course a King for a grandfather but it sums up how things are. So a princess for a wife definitely does not make Tim royal.

 

[Dman]

I'm not going to get into titles in this thread, but I'll say, they all make up The House of Windsor.

 

[Artemisia]

Tim is not member of the royal family.

But of course Tim is a member of the Royal Family.
He is not member of a Royal House, and certainly not a royal himself, but a member of the family he most certainly is.
The same goes for Pete, Zara, the Linleys, the Chattos, etc; they are all members of the (immediate or extended) Royal Family, even if they are not royals themselves.

 

[Jacknch]

I totally agree. He seems like a quietly strong individual who is ok with remaining in the background. He apparently has quite a good relationship with Zara and Peter. I've heard them speak of him very fondly in interviews. This thing about not being born a royal bothers me. If you are a member of the royal family you should not be made to feel that you are second class because of how you were born. But that's just me being a U.S. citizen. British citizens have lived with this for hundreds of years so I'm sure it makes more sense to them.

I'm afraid even though I'm British, I do not know much at all about Tim - I don't think many people do apart from what can be gleaned off the internet. But you are right, I think he is a quietly strong individual and very much keeps himself in the background.
I am quite sure that Tim does not feel like a second class citizen just because he does not lay a wreath at the Cenotaph - he will be very much aware of the various protocols of who does what and when because, of-course, he has been a member of Royal Family for twenty years and wwas an equerry for years before that. Career-wise I think he has been very ambitious and has done very well for himself. But such ambition I am sure does not extend to his trying to get himself in a high place within the family heirachy just so that he can lay a wreath once a year.

I think the debate about Tim occured last year and will most likely occur next year too. If everyone in the Royal Family who were deemed legible to lay a wreath at the Cenotaph actually did so, then there would be a huge crowd of them all clamering about, each with someone carrying a wreath for them!

As a British Citizen, I vaguely understand some protocols and accept them on the basis that I am in no position to change them even if I wanted to. I think most British families have their own way of doing things such as who will go in what car when there is a funeral, which mother/grandmother will make the wedding cake at a wedding etc etc, we all have our family ways!

 

[EIIR]

This thing about not being born a royal bothers me. If you are a member of the royal family you should not be made to feel that you are second class because of how you were born.

This is the essence of monarchy. Those nations who still have monarchical systems basically elevate these 'born royals' to a different sphere to the rest of us. The 'born royal' concept is pretty crucial when it comes time for a new monarch to take the throne; without it, we wouldn't have an hereditary monarchy, as it dictates that when the future Charles III dies it'll be King William V who comes next.

AdmirerUS said:

Britain - two petals, black center and oak leaf
Canada - Four petals (often though, all one piece), black center (and for a while earlier a green center)
New Zealand - two petals, flat, black center
AU - Four petals, black center

This is correct, Admirer, but there are a few different options for poppies in the UK. The Scots have their own poppy which is slightly different to that sold in the rest of the UK.

There's also the option of a much larger, more realistic poppy (worn here by Cherie Blair), which you can buy from the RBL but which will cost you more than the regular poppy. Over the years the RBL have started selling miniature poppy lapel pins which are metallic, as well as more 'glitzy' poppies such as that worn by Kate on Sunday. Again, these are more expensive and would be kept year to year. These poppies are handy because the normal paper poppy can become rather battered when taking coats on and off etc.

Oh, also, Camilla wore what appeared to be a large knitted poppy last year. Overall, though, the Queen, Charles, William and Kate etc. often wear a poppy which is slightly different to the basic poppy and is made specially for them by the RBL.

You're wishing you'd never brought this up now, aren't you? Overall, you can wear whatever poppy you want, you could even make your own, as long as you donate to the RBL.

 

[corazon]

kate look perfect!!! I love the hat, is the same that she usen in william graduation!

 

[Dman]

BBC Remembrance Sunday The Cenotaph 2012 - YouTube

 

[Iluvbertie]

I am reminded of a quote from Princess Margaret.

"My children are not royal; they just happen to have Queen for their aunt."

and of course a King for a grandfather but it sums up how things are. So a princess for a wife definitely does not make Tim royal.

It was actually Princess Anne who made the comment 'My children aren't royal - they just have The Queen for a grandmother'.

Margaret's attitude was very different - insisting that her husband have a title so that her children would also be titled.

 

[sophie25]

It was actually Princess Anne who made the comment 'My children aren't royal - they just have The Queen for a grandmother'.

Margaret's attitude was very different - insisting that her husband have a title so that her children would also be titled.

I must say it has always been Princess Margaret that I have read this quote being attributed to with aunt replacing the word grandmother of course.

 

[cepe]

It was actually Princess Anne who made the comment 'My children aren't royal - they just have The Queen for a grandmother'.

Margaret's attitude was very different - insisting that her husband have a title so that her children would also be titled.

I'm sorry but it was Princess Margaret - in every source I've found. princess Margaret did have a titled husband but she did not consider her children to be royal - her husband was not royal, her children's titles came from her husband therefore her children were not royal. Very simple approach. The male line counted.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I have never seen this attributed to Margaret but do remember very clearly Anne saying it in an interview not long after Zara was born.

I have hundreds of books on the Queen and her family and none attribute that quote to Margaret but all, that mention it at all, attribute it to Anne.

On many occasions I have come across reference to Margaret regarding her children as superior to Anne's because they have titles, regardless of where those titles come from.

 

[Artemisia]

Well, I know at least one source that attributes the phrase to Princess Margaret - her own son, Viscount Linley. A quote from Telegraph article:

To quote my mother’s fabulous observation: 'My children aren’t royal, they just happen to have the Queen as an aunt.’”

 

[Molly2101]

The Queen and The Duke of Edinburgh, The Earl and Countess of Wessex, The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, The Duke of Kent and Princess Alexandra of Kent will attend the Royal British Legion Festival of Remembrance at the Royal Albert Hall, London SW7.

The Earl of Wessex will give a reading. The CC does not say that Andrew and Anne are attending.

 

[Dman]

Robert Jobson ‏@theroyaleditor 4h
Prince Harry is expected to stand in for his dad as The Queen leads the nation on Remembrance Sunday at The Cenotaph. pic.twitter.com/RDAatYbN7r