Remembrance Day Services: 2003-2013

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by Kataryn

Isn't precedence at the discretion of HM? I'm sure she wants William, now that he is married, to take his place as the heir of the heir by acting directly after his father. The queen is not immortal and surely she wants to have her house in order when the day comes that Charles will be king. Then there should be a clear and clean transition to the new king and his new PoW. IMHO, of course.

At an official event such as this, I think the Official Precedence takes place which is determined by the government. The other type is Court Precedence - The Queen's list. This is where Camilla is outranked by [some] Princesses of The Blood.

[camelot23ca]

Originally Posted by Baroness of Books

That is ridiculous; of all days, rank and one's standing in the RF should not be a consideration when you've served your country. It's a shame the Vice Admiral was relegated to the sidelines, because he's an in-law, and not allowed to participate in the laying of a wreath when he earned his right to do so. To me, anyone who actively served one's country should have place of honor in any ceremony honoring the war dead.

And that's my opinion, as well.

I think wreaths are laid by representatives from the various branches of the armed services in the same ceremony.
The royal family lay wreaths because of what they represent not because of what they've accomplished. If you're going to introduce military merit, and who's earned what, into the equation then, IMO, the argument that follows is that the majority of the royals, as well as most of the politicians, diplomats and clergy, etc, should be scrapped and the service taken over entirely by active servicemen and veterans.

[angela]

Since 2006 I have enjoyed seeing Prince and Princess Michael back at the Festival of Remembrance. Seasoned Royals watchers will remember that they attended every year since their marraige and then went to the Cenotaph the next day where the Prince laid a wreath. I can't remember when Prince Michael stopped laying a wreath or what the reason was for it but when it happened their appearence at the Festival of Rememebrance also stopped. So in 2006 it was great to see them back and it coincided with Her Majesty giving them the role of representing the Royal Family each year at the City of London's commemorations on Remembrance Sunday which always includes a service at St. Paul's Cathedral and the Prince laying a wreath at the City War Memorial. Below is a picture of them attending this year (although they had to go through a side entrance due to the anti-capitalist protestors).

Pictures: UK observes Remembrance Sunday - 13th Nov 2011 | A Service of Remembrance at St Paul's Cathedral in London, as Prince Michael of Kent (left) and Princess Michael of Kent arrive for the service.

P.S. I know some people are going to ask the difference between the City of London Commemorations and what the Queen attends and I have to say that I know there is a differnce but I am not clued up enough on London's history to explain what it is!

[ghost_night554]

The full ceremony - Part 1 of 3 (just go to the users account for the rest of the parts)

2011 Remembrance Sunday Ceremony at the Cenotaph - Part 1 of 3 - YouTube

[TLLK]

Originally Posted by lady of hay

Going off topic ,or not depending on your opinion, what do other countries do to remember their war dead ?

I know in the Netherlands that the Queen, PoO, Princess Maxima and the Prime Minister attend a ceremony in Amsterdam on their Remembrance Day in early May. There is a solemn period of silence, the national anthem is sung and the Queen lays a wreath.

[TLLK]

Originally Posted by ghost_night554

The full ceremony - Part 1 of 3 (just go to the users account for the rest of the parts)

Thank you very much for sharing this video.

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by camelot23ca

I think wreaths are laid by representatives from the various branches of the armed services in the same ceremony.
The royal family lay wreaths because of what they represent not because of what they've accomplished. If you're going to introduce military merit, and who's earned what, into the equation then, IMO, the argument that follows is that the majority of the royals, as well as most of the politicians, diplomats and clergy, etc, should be scrapped and the service taken over entirely by active servicemen and veterans.

I understand your viewpoint, and I do believe most people understand as to why things happened they way they do, but, as a member of the royal family and as someone who has had a notable military career I believe that to be reason enough to incorporate Sir Timothy into the service.

I see no reason (apart from 'protocol') as to why he could not lay a wreath together with his wife.

...that Sir Tim lay a wreath next year, perhaps jointly with his wife.

Most appropriate.

[Diarist]

Originally Posted by angela

P.S. I know some people are going to ask the difference between the City of London Commemorations and what the Queen attends and I have to say that I know there is a differnce but I am not clued up enough on London's history to explain what it is!

I think that the best way I can explain is by saying that St Paul's is a Church of England Cathedral. It is situated in the 'City of London'. This term is difficult for some of us to understand; to explain it simply, 'London' is actually composed of more than 1 City; for example, 'The City of Westminster'. The term 'The City of London' refers to that part of Central London which was the 'original' London; it is now the 'business hub of London' and as such is very important. It has its own 'Lord Mayor', an office so important that its imcumbant actually ranks second to the Sovereign on official 'City Occasions'. Like nearly every other Anglican church and Cathedral, it holds a Remembrance Day Service on the second Sunday in November.


The Cenotaph is the 'national monument' to commerate the dead in Britain's wars: the focus of national commeroration, if you see what I mean.

I cannot give you any official reason for the non-appearance of Prince and Princess Michael of Kent at the Cenotaph. It is not true to say that all male members of the British Royal Family [along with the Queen and the Princess Royal] attend at the Cenotaph each year - for example, sometimes a member of the BRF undertakes a foreign engagement at a Remembrance Service abroad instead of attending at the Cenotaph.

I can give no official reason for the fact that Prince and Princess Michael no longer attend the Festival of Remembrance or the Cenotaph Service. People do say that the Queen wished the Michaels to be 'sidelined' away from the national focus of commeroration [The festival of Remembrance in the Royal Albert Hall and the Cenotaph service] because of the continuing disquiet over the presence of Princess Michael at the events [because her late father served as a member of Hitler's hated SS during the Second World War]. I have no way of knowing whether this is true or not; it perhaps would seem unlikely because of course the Michaels were attending long after Princess Michael's father was 'exposed'. All I can think of is that the real reason is that some Royal presence is felt to be necessary at St Paul's [because its own Bishop, the Bishop of London, is of course present at the Cenotaph instead of at St Paul's, and the Michaels are felt to be an 'appropriate couple' because Prince Michael is no longer either a serving Army Officer [he is a retired Major] or a Royal Colonel of a regular Regiment: his military / naval appointments are both for volunteer forces: The Honorable Artiillery Company and The Royal Naval Reserve.

I hope this helps,

Alex

[Diarist]

The reason for not including Vice-Admiral Sir Timothy Laurence is of course because he is not, strictly speaking, a 'Member of the Royal Family; instead he is a 'royal relative'.

'Protocol' is not always a 'dirty word'. Because of the representative nature of the Cenotaph commeroration, a line has to be drawn somewhere and I suppose that limiting 'wreath-laying' attendance to members of the BRF is the best way.
Alex

[camelot23ca]

I think 'protocol' is an excellent explanation as to why he couldn't participate. Protocol and tradition are integral parts of these memorials. He's not royal, he's basically a private citizen who's related to QEII by marriage. If you're going to throw protocol out the window then why would Princess Anne's husband be given the honour of laying a wreath next to that of the Queen and not, say, the twenty year old soldier who lost his leg in Afghanistan but hasn't got any ins with the royal family? Or why couldn't Catherine lay a wreath with William? I believe her grandfather served and she is, after all, the spouse of an active RAF pilot. Surely the family members who give up so much to support their loved ones should be represented too? Keep going and soon there won't be anyone not laying a wreath.

[jemagre]

Maybe they could change the protocol so only those that have served on active duty, in the family, could put wreaths up. That would eliminate Edward, Anne, and the royal spouses that haven't served. On the other hand it would allow Anne's husband to lay a wreath. Then all the controversy about people wearing uniforms they didn't earn would at least partly go away. There would still be some criticism that they got a free ride because of who they are.

Anybody know when the spouse standing on the balcony started? Sorry if it has been asked already.

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by camelot23ca

I think 'protocol' is an excellent explanation as to why he couldn't participate. Protocol and tradition are integral parts of these memorials. He's not royal, he's basically a private citizen who's related to QEII by marriage.

I understand where you're coming from, but Anne's husband is a member of the royal family. Be that he is largely considered in a collateral capacity, though he does on occasion appear in listings. Perhaps for future reference I'll refer to him as a member of Her Majesty's immediate family so as to avoid confusion for those who may be reading.

In any case, we are not talking of the public at large who well observe this occasion of remembrance throughout Britain and the Commonwealth in a less publicized, though very meaningful way.

And should have I misrepresented my viewpoint, then I'd gladly re-affirm my understanding and respect for protocol as a whole. Though be it at times with a natural curiosity to query an observance that can appear to me as being rather nonsensical in light of ones sensible understanding.

Evidently protocol has a big part to play within the structures of monarchy, on that we all agree. But, unlike his sister in-laws, Timothy devoted his career to the military and so in my personal opinion, has every right as a serviceman and as a member of Her Majesty's immediate family to lay a wreath beside his wife who, in her honourific appointment, does so accordingly.

We don't have to agree as these are afterall just the opinions of very small fish in a very large pond.

And the Vice Admiral is no doubt content (?) to remain a prop next to other senior family members with whom he shares the royal balcony.

[Baroness of Books]

An astute statement, Madame Royale, and well put.

[Jacknch]

I think it is simply that only those born into the royal family lay a wreath, whilst their non-royal born spouses watch from the balconies. But in a sense I agree that seeing as Sir Timothy has actively served in the navy for so many years and has a distiguished career, it would be great to give him the honour of laying a wreath. It may yet happen in the future.

[maria-olivia]

Wonderful video , I saw it during the 43 minutes , thanks for sharing
Laying a wreath:
1.The Queen
2.Prince Philip
3.Charles Prince of Wales
------------------------
4. Prince William
5. Prince Andrew
6 Prince Edouard
7. Princess Anne
8. Duke of Kent

If Prince Harry was there , I think I should be before the Duke of York?

The Duke of Kent is since always among the royals behind the Queen for trooping of the color.
We never saw Prince Michael, the Gloucester and Sir Timothy (whose place was among the royal relatives.)

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

If Prince Harry was there , I think I should be before the Duke of York?

The Duke of Kent is since always among the royals behind the Queen for trooping of the color.
We never saw Prince Michael, the Gloucester and Sir Timothy (whose place was among the royal relatives.)

Actually official protocol should have dictated that it went HM, Prince Philip, Prince Charles, Prince Andrew, Prince Edward, Prince William then Harry. Anne would have been placed I presume after Edward. The Gloucesters or at least The Duchess was on the balcony, as well as Sir Timothy and Prince Michael.

[MagMil]

Courtesy of MyDigitalRealm YouTube channel , here is Festival of Remembrance, November,12,2011

part 1 of 3

2011 Festival of Remembrance - Part 1of 3 - YouTube

[ghost_night554]

Originally Posted by TLLK

Thank you very much for sharing this video.

No prob


Has this been posted from ITN? Video of the Royals from Remembrance Sunday
DEFENCE / ROYAL: Remembrance Sunday services at Cenotaph

From 1:21 and on you get to see Kate, Camilla, Tim and Sophie on the balcony, chatting about smiling and laughing with each other.

[iceflower]

.

The Duke of Edinburgh has attended the opening of the Royal British Legion's Field of Remembrance at Westminster Abbey on November 8, 2012. Hundreds of small crosses bearing a poppy have been planted in a Field of Remembrance in a tribute to British servicemen and women who have lost their lives in conflict.




** gettyimages/zimbio gallery: The Duke Of Edinburgh Visits The Field Of Remembrance Outside Westminster Abbey **


** telegraph.co.uk: Duke of Edinburgh accompanies H Jones' widow to Remembrance field **


** dailymail: Prince Philip wipes tear from his eye as he opens Westminster Abbey remembrance field and lays cross.. **

[Dman]

Festival of Remembrance 2012:
Festival of Remembrance 2012 - The Royal British Legion.

The Festival of Remembrance is broadcast by the BBC -BBC1 Saturday 9.15pm - 10.50pm and BBC Radio 2 Saturday 8pm -9pm. Please check your local guides for details.

You can try to watch The Festival of Remembrance here:
TVPC.com - Channel List