Relationships between Members of the British Royal Family

[TLLK]

Thanks TLLK. This is what I was thinking about the situation of reports of a strained relationship. There was a lot going on in all their lives right at that time. I’m sure it was very stressful time for all of them.
And these events and timeframe seem to fit together better than the other reasons and timeframes that have been speculated on to explain the seemingly strained relationship between Harry and William.
When under stress, sometimes things are said that are hurtful to others and that can cause tension in relationships.

You're welcome. Based on my own life experience, I know that sometimes the family dynamics leading up to a wedding can create a stressful situation. This was a very high profile event that due to the behavior of some of the bride's family members likely made it very difficult for those staff members tasked with organizing it and for those who were trying to offer support. I cannot imagine how frustrating it was for the bride and groom that Thomas Sr., Thomas Jr. and Samantha Markle were constantly in the press due to their antics.


When these out of control situation arise, I'm not surprised that tempers flare and hurt feelings are on full display. All the participants are human after all.

 

[Zaira]

How do they know any of this happened unless the reporter was in the room? What did the 'riot act' entail? Why would Meghan get involved in a quarrel between two brothers? So easy to blame Meghan in all this when the obvious tension is between William and Harry.

Agreed all around. Was a maid listening through the walls or something? These "palace sources" just like to keep repacking old gossip and the papers run with it as if its new (or true) info.

I tend to think there are issues with the brothers. Blaming that on Meghan is ridiculous and unfair to her.

And if Harry did feel like his brother wasn't being as supportive, that is a fair thing to bring up IMO. Harry went out of his way to support Kate when she joined. He seemed to put her at ease a lot during their public engagements and all the reporting has been consistent about that support. I dont think its totally untoward for Harry to expect the same for his wife too. And it seems things were going well up until the wedding or shortly thereafter, which as TLLK pointed out, was an especially stressful time (for us as royal watchers too!).

Families are complicated things in normal settings, not least when you are the most famous family in the world under constant scrutiny. I am sure time and space will help whatever tension is going on between the brothers. They have always been close, but sometimes differences take a while to work out no matter how close you are to your sibling.

 

[royal-blue]

I read that Andrew and Edward used to share a Royal Household, in the same way that William and Harry did until recently. Does anyone know during which years this was? Just wondered if Edward was ever "grouped with" Andrew and Sarah during the start of their marriage, like WH&K?

 

[Lumutqueen]

I read that Andrew and Edward used to share a Royal Household, in the same way that William and Harry did until recently. Does anyone know during which years this was? Just wondered if Edward was ever "grouped with" Andrew and Sarah during the start of their marriage, like WH&K?

They were connected up until at least 1990. They shared Lt Col Sean O Dwyer from 1987-1990, together, until he left to serve as PS to Edward from 1990 to 2001.

From 1990 to 2001 Capt. Neil Blair CVO RN was PS to The Duke of York.

 

[TLLK]

nd if Harry did feel like his brother wasn't being as supportive, that is a fair thing to bring up IMO. Harry went out of his way to support Kate when she joined. He seemed to put her at ease a lot during their public engagements and all the reporting has been consistent about that support. I dont think its totally untoward for Harry to expect the same for his wife too. And it seems things were going well up until the wedding or shortly thereafter, which as TLLK pointed out, was an especially stressful time (for us as royal watchers too!).

Just would like to point out that Harry was at a different age/stage of life (bachelor and Army officer) when William and Catherine announced their engagement in 2010 and married in 2011. By the time Prince Harry and Ms. Meghan Markle announced their engagement in 2017, the Cambridges were parents of two and expecting a third child with Catherine being very ill for the first trimester.

The trio also tended to do more together after the Cambridges wed so they were more frequently seen at royal functions.

 

[Osipi]

I read that Andrew and Edward used to share a Royal Household, in the same way that William and Harry did until recently. Does anyone know during which years this was? Just wondered if Edward was ever "grouped with" Andrew and Sarah during the start of their marriage, like WH&K?

Not sure if this has anything really to do with sharing a household together but a good example of Andrew and Edward (along with Sarah and Anne) grouping together for a purpose, one only has to flash back to "Its A Royal Knockout" which to this day, I find highly amusing. That program was aired in June 1987 11 months after Andrew and Sarah married in July 1986.

 

[Lady Reem]

Just would like to point out that Harry was at a different age/stage of life (bachelor and Army officer) when William and Catherine announced their engagement in 2010 and married in 2011. By the time Prince Harry and Ms. Meghan Markle announced their engagement in 2017, the Cambridges were parents of two and expecting a third child with Catherine being very ill for the first trimester.

The trio also tended to do more together after the Cambridges wed so they were more frequently seen at royal functions.

It’s been referenced several times before and for many I think the core issue is that Prince Harry was very supportive and welcoming towards Kate Middleton during her transition from a commoner to a newly minted royal as his brother’s wife and all that entailed. That same respect doesn’t appear to have been reciprocated towards Harry’s wife Meghan, which is a great shame.

 

[Ista]

It’s been referenced several times before and for many I think the core issue is that Prince Harry was very supportive and welcoming towards Kate Middleton during her transition from a commoner to a newly minted royal as his brother’s wife and all that entailed. That same respect doesn’t appear to have been reciprocated towards Harry’s wife Meghan, which is a great shame.

What are you basing this statement on? I've see no evidence that Meghan has not been welcomed by William, Kate, and the rest of the royal family, so I'm curious what evidence there is that she wasn't.

 

[Osipi]

Its summertime and royal news moves right along like a turtle basking in the sun and inching along with no particular place to go.

This all actually is just stories about private lives and relationships that no one really has a definite clue about and from unconfirmed "sources" and 2+2=7 with fractions thrown in here and there that just don't add up.

Its actually none of our business what their private relationships entail or what they ate for dinner last night and who forgot to feed the dogs.

 

[Lady Reem]

Its summertime and royal news moves right along like a turtle basking in the sun and inching along with no particular place to go.

This all actually is just stories about private lives and relationships that no one really has a definite clue about and from unconfirmed "sources" and 2+2=7 with fractions thrown in here and there that just don't add up.

Its actually none of our business what their private relationships entail or what they ate for dinner last night and who forgot to feed the dogs.

If that were the case then this entire thread/topic would not exist but it does so your point makes very little sense. People ruminate or pick apart even the most minute of details concerning members of the BRF, be it the clothes they wear, hairstyles/hair and whether or not they deem it appropriate or even dirty, ad nauseam. Speculation/discussions re relationship dynamics between members of that family isn’t out of the ordinary, considering.

 

[tommy100]

It’s been referenced several times before and for many I think the core issue is that Prince Harry was very supportive and welcoming towards Kate Middleton during her transition from a commoner to a newly minted royal as his brother’s wife and all that entailed. That same respect doesn’t appear to have been reciprocated towards Harry’s wife Meghan, which is a great shame.

I've never seen or heard evidence to support this. At most we have heard that William questioned if Harry was sure he wanted to marry Meghan so quickly. That doesn't mean that, knowing Harry was indeed sure, he and Kate didn't provide all the support they could to Harry and Meghan.

I think it would probably be easy for Kate to fit in with Harry and William when they were all younger, living in the same apartment etc. Whereas when Meghan first came along W&K had started their own family in their own residences with their own public duties so, quite simply there was less room and time to do a lot of things with Meghan. That doesn't mean they didn't just that turning up as a foursome was always going to be harder.

Also, and this IMO makes a big difference, Kate had been with William for 8 years and thus had had time to establish a personal relationship with Harry on her own terms. With quite a short relationship before their wedding I'm not sure how comparing the two would be possible.

 

[Lady Reem]

What are you basing this statement on? I've see no evidence that Meghan has not been welcomed by William, Kate, and the rest of the royal family, so I'm curious what evidence there is that she wasn't.

So then, when damaging leaks and malicious gossip emerged in the media last autumn relating to the Sussexes and Cambridges but Meghan in particular, where were the denials and support from KP? The “what Meghan wants Meghan gets” claim, the accusations that she made Kate cry blah blah and the rest. Or the vindictive reports about the queen being unimpressed with Meghan simply because she wore white and a veil on her wedding day given she was once married before. Remember, Meghan was pregnant at the time the nasty gossip started and had not longed arrived back from an exhausting and major tour far far away. So where was the support and denials from her new ‘supportive’ in-laws given that both palaces & CH have never shied away from issuing statements in defense of family members in the past and most recently? And William point blank snubbed his brother’s wife last Christmas at church as she tried to engage him. It was commented on a lot on here.

 

[Osipi]

If that were the case then this entire thread/topic would not exist but it does so your point makes very little sense. People ruminate or pick apart even the most minute of details concerning members of the BRF, be it the clothes they wear, hairstyles/hair and whether or not they deem it appropriate or even dirty, ad nauseam. Speculation/discussions re relationship dynamics between members of that family isn’t out of the ordinary, considering.

There is information out there that members of the royal family have said themselves about what their relationships are like within the family such as Andrew being quoted about it in Robert Hardman's book "Our Queen" or Margaret Rhodes book "The Final Curtsey: A Royal Memoir by the Queen's Cousin" among a few and well researched biographies such as Shawcross' book "The Queen Mother: The Official Biography (sure to break any postal workers back if ordered in hardback copy) that gives insight into the life and times of the British royal family behind closed doors. To me, these sources are acceptable and would make for good discussion as the sources are credible and believable. Sometimes even on engagements, people like William and Harry, themselves, give an inkling of what their kids are up to and their interactions.

"A source close to the palace" or 'someone high up in the royal household" just doesn't cut it for me. For me, the issue is the sources of information that can be proven to be credible. If its their private lives being talked about, I really prefer the credible sources on what goes on as most likely they've gotten it from the royal themselves and they're OK with the information being put out in the public domain.

Maybe I'm too finicky but I'm too old and set in my ways to think differently on this. I absolutely love hearing and knowing the amusing tidbits of royal life especially when it comes to the Queen's humor and sharp wit.

 

[Ista]

So then, when damaging leaks and malicious gossip emerged in the media last autumn relating to the Sussexes and Cambridges but Meghan in particular, where were the denials and support from KP? The “what Meghan wants Meghan gets” claim, the accusations that she made Kate cry blah blah and the rest. Or the vindictive reports about the queen being unimpressed with Meghan simply because she wore white and a veil on her wedding day given she was once married before. Remember, Meghan was pregnant at the time the nasty gossip started and had not longed arrived back from an exhausting and major tour far far away. So where was the support and denials from her new ‘supportive’ in-laws given that both palaces & CH have never shied away from issuing statements in defense of family members in the past and most recently? And William point blank snubbed his brother’s wife last Christmas at church as she tried to engage him. It was commented on a lot on here.

Most of that is not evidence at all, it's simply rehashing gossip, rumors and innuendo. None of it is coming from within the family. Gossip is absolutely not credible evidence.

 

[tommy100]

So then, when damaging leaks and malicious gossip emerged in the media last autumn relating to the Sussexes and Cambridges but Meghan in particular, where were the denials and support from KP? The “what Meghan wants Meghan gets” claim, the accusations that she made Kate cry blah blah and the rest. Or the vindictive reports about the queen being unimpressed with Meghan simply because she wore white and a veil on her wedding day given she was once married before. Remember, Meghan was pregnant at the time the nasty gossip started and had not longed arrived back from an exhausting and major tour far far away. So where was the support and denials from her new ‘supportive’ in-laws given that both palaces & CH have never shied away from issuing statements in defense of family members in the past and most recently? And William point blank snubbed his brother’s wife last Christmas at church as she tried to engage him. It was commented on a lot on here.

Royal staff do not officially comment on day-to-day speculation about the royals, how they get on etc. If they did they would spend all day doing it. Also its open to interpretation, if they disagree once does that mean they don't get along, does two quarrels or four?

Look at all the ridiculous reports about the royals there are, the Royal Household simply couldn't deny them all if they had 100 people working 24hrs a day 365 days a year on it. As Osipi says, if one of the Queen's cousins, senior staff etc were to say "The Queen dislike Meghan" that would almost certainly get a comment as it comes from someone reputable who could be seen as genuinely knowing HM's mind. The gossip and made up stories of the media and social media don't warrant comment, and it makes denials, comments etc from the Household carry more weight.

The Royals are simply doing what they have always done, which in its own way shows they accept Meghan as one of theirs.

 

[Zaira]

Most of that is not evidence at all, it's simply rehashing gossip, rumors and innuendo. None of it is coming from within the family. Gossip is absolutely not credible evidence.

Well to be fair, we have no idea if its coming from within the family or not. Its not like the BRF doesnt have a long history of various family members leaking things, gossiping, selling each other out, or stabbing each other in the back. Rather it be the BRF members themselves, or through proxy.

That isn't to say I think the stories and stuff are coming from the family. Just that its not that inconceivable.

 

[MARG]

I think there is a reluctance to authorise someone to talk to the media. It is the ultimate poisoned chalice as the well know.

Meghan's friends got a pass this one time because they are not British and therefore not aware of the BRF motto of "never complain, never explain", certainly when it the stories are ludicrous.

When it is serious the Queen will authorise BP to release a short statement.

 

[Ista]

Well to be fair, we have no idea if its coming from within the family or not. Its not like the BRF doesnt have a long history of various family members leaking things, gossiping, selling each other out, or stabbing each other in the back. Rather it be the BRF members themselves, or through proxy.

That isn't to say I think the stories and stuff are coming from the family. Just that its not that inconceivable.

I think "inconceivable" would fit this particular story fairly well, since it doesn't make anyone involved look good, especially Harry and William. A maid with her ear pressed to the door? That I could imagine, since there is plenty of precedent for that. Harry, Meghan, William or Kate? The mind boggles. It benefits none of them. Another family member who heard about the supposed confrontation? Why? Who would it serve?

While it might have happened, without some kind of evidence, it's no more credible than some of the other stories that have circulated.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I think people are discussing two different things here.

One is the cluster of stories that came out in the late autumn that were pretty nasty about Meghan. I think there was implication that the negativity came from a disgruntled family member who was leaking things to the press.

The other is the little story that Harry blew up at William and Kate after the wedding, when all of them had a lot happening in their lives and tensions were probably high. Honestly, if true, I don't see how that reflects poorly on anyone--life happens, people rashly say things when emotional and feelings get hurt. I don't think any of the four principals involved would have leaked this story purposefully.

 

[TLLK]

The other is the little story that Harry blew up at William and Kate after the wedding, when all of them had a lot happening in their lives and tensions were probably high. Honestly, if true, I don't see how that reflects poorly on anyone--life happens, people rashly say things when emotional and feelings get hurt. I don't think any of the four principals involved would have leaked this story purposefully.

Exactly. Yes this was a stressful time for all involved and I agree that none of the four would wish to see this private family moment leaked to the media. Public figures have their unhappy episodes just like any other family and I doubt that most would like to see them publicly aired.

 

[muriel]

One is the cluster of stories that came out in the late autumn that were pretty nasty about Meghan. I think there was implication that the negativity came from a disgruntled family member who was leaking things to the press.

I think quite a lot of us remember the stories just after the trip to Australasia. That there was "implication that the negativity came from a disgruntled family member who was leaking things to the press" was and remains pure speculation. I do not believe any credible information has come into the public domain since to prove otherwise.

 

[Winnie]

I think people are discussing two different things here.

One is the cluster of stories that came out in the late autumn that were pretty nasty about Meghan. I think there was implication that the negativity came from a disgruntled family member who was leaking things to the press.

The other is the little story that Harry blew up at William and Kate after the wedding, when all of them had a lot happening in their lives and tensions were probably high. Honestly, if true, I don't see how that reflects poorly on anyone--life happens, people rashly say things when emotional and feelings get hurt. I don't think any of the four principals involved would have leaked this story purposefully.

The oddest thing to me was Harry being offended at Catherine for not making Meghan more welcome. At that time, Catherine was dealing with 2 small toddlers, a husband, Royal duties and puking her brains out constantly. Even after just giving birth, a woman's hormones are a bit easily hurt and weepy. If ANYONE hurt Meghan's feelings because she wasn't made welcome on bended knee I just can't believe it was Catherine, but she now gets all the blame. Of anyone in the family, I tend to think that Catherine and Sophie are the two "peace-makers" at heart.

 

[_Heather_]

The oddest thing to me was Harry being offended at Catherine for not making Meghan more welcome. At that time, Catherine was dealing with 2 small toddlers, a husband, Royal duties and puking her brains out constantly. Even after just giving birth, a woman's hormones are a bit easily hurt and weepy. If ANYONE hurt Meghan's feelings because she wasn't made welcome on bended knee I just can't believe it was Catherine, but she now gets all the blame. Of anyone in the family, I tend to think that Catherine and Sophie are the two "peace-makers" at heart.

I absolutely agree with this, especially the part in bold. I'm not sure we'll ever really know all of the ins and outs of what's happened over the past couple of years but I think it's clear that there's definitely been something that's happened. Either way the lead up to the wedding was definitely stressful for all four of them. Granted the stress was for different reasons but stressful nonetheless. Regardless, I can't imagine Catherine being intentionally unfriendly or unwelcoming, but I can well imagine her being very preoccupied with her own life at the time and not having the time, the energy, or frankly the physical ability (given her HG) to role out the red carpet for an all hands on deck welcome. I can absolutely see William having some reservations and trying to have a conversation with Harry about his concerns given how fast the relationship moved and how much drama (family and otherwise) seemed to come with it and without being a fly on the wall it's impossible to say how William delivered this or how Harry took it but it's easy to see how it could have easily been misinterpreted on one or both ends, if it even happened at all. Frankly this whole blow-up scenario and the "stony silence" that accompanies it really paints the Sussexes in a bad light and while I'm not convinced that it actually even happened, if it did, I can absolutely see why things wouldn't have been right with four of them since.

 

[ACO]

If my sibling was dismissive and questioned the person I love, we might have issues too. That’s one way to present that story. Who knows if true (I suspect is nonsense) but you can see how Harry could take that. Personally I don’t think this story makes any of them look good, which is the point. Also telling how this story has changed over the year.

 

[tommy100]

TBH if one of my siblings announced their engagement to somebody they had known for 17months I would question as to if they were sure. It wouldn't mean I didn't like their parter at all but I would think it was fast and would want to talk about it.

 

[Pranter]

17 months is fast?

I think if you don't know by 6 months if the relationship is serious then you need to evaluate your process. By a year for sure you should know if this is someone you want to marry. Especially couples in their 30's who have had years of dating experience and life experience.


LaRae

 

[_Heather_]

TBH if one of my siblings announced their engagement to somebody they had known for 17months I would question as to if they were sure. It wouldn't mean I didn't like their parter at all but I would think it was fast and would want to talk about it.

That's my feeling on it, too. In fact, my brother and I have had a very similar conversation when he quite quickly announced his intention to remarry and there were some warning signs and red flags that everyone but him could see including some very, shall we say, concerning behaviors on the part of her family. He wasn't over the moon about our conversation but at the same time understood that I was trying very hard to spare him potential headaches in the future. Had he been very certain about his plans and explained them to me to calm my concerns I would have supported him whole-heartedly. However, not long after our conversation a few things happened which caused him to see exactly what we all saw and the marriage didn't move forward. To this day he'll tell you that he absolutely dodged a bullet. Sometimes the role of family is not to always play "no matter what cheerleader" but to be a calm head, a voice of reason, a step back and take a look advocate, etc. and I can absolutely see where William might have had a conversation with Harry in that regard. Not to try to dissuade Harry but to ask him if he was moving quickly because he was completely certain or if he was moving quickly because he wanted a marriage/wife/family so badly that he was putting on blinders to things that might have been concerning. I can see where it could have been a problem if William delivered it badly or a problem if Harry took it in a way that it was unintended or both. Again, we have no idea if the whole thing even happened, though I can't say I'd be overly surprised if it did considering that William's role is as the future monarch, the person who will need to consider all aspects and optics for the family, someone who himself benefited from a long relationship prior to marriage, someone who had seen what the media could do given any little thread to tug at.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I think quite a lot of us remember the stories just after the trip to Australasia. That there was "implication that the negativity came from a disgruntled family member who was leaking things to the press" was and remains pure speculation. I do not believe any credible information has come into the public domain since to prove otherwise.

I do not believe it nor am I implying such a thing-I read that speculation here on the Royal Forums.

 

[Ista]

17 months is fast?

I think if you don't know by 6 months if the relationship is serious then you need to evaluate your process. By a year for sure you should know if this is someone you want to marry. Especially couples in their 30's who have had years of dating experience and life experience.


LaRae

In a normal relationship, no, probably not. In a high profile, royal relationship? Possibly, and if the conversation between William and Harry happened at all I can see a) why William might have expressed concern and b) why Harry may not have taken it well.

When Meghan came from such a totally different background than Harry, the concern may well have been along the lines of "Do both of you know what you are getting into" which from a certain perspective seems like a reasonable question for a sibling who will one day be king to ask.

 

[Zaira]

I think "inconceivable" would fit this particular story fairly well, since it doesn't make anyone involved look good, especially Harry and William. A maid with her ear pressed to the door? That I could imagine, since there is plenty of precedent for that. Harry, Meghan, William or Kate? The mind boggles. It benefits none of them. Another family member who heard about the supposed confrontation? Why? Who would it serve?

While it might have happened, without some kind of evidence, it's no more credible than some of the other stories that have circulated.

Oh yes, I agree this story sounds like bad fanfiction. I was speaking more generally though.