Relationships between Members of the British Royal Family

[soapstar]

Reminder: This thread is about the relationship between members of the BRF. Let's not get into a debate about Meghan's relationship with her family. Further off-topic posts will be deleted.

 

[MARG]

Perhaps Harry expected a degree of support from his brother that was not only not forthcoming but was exactly the opposite. He would remember Catherine's entry to the family.

Firstly, I believe that Harry really likes Catherine but, when the tabloids went after her Harry was there for them, he told everyone she was the sister he'd never had. His support of William and even more of Catherine was unrestrained.

With the barrage of nasty publicity against Meghan, Harry must feel the absence of William's support from he and Meghan's side as a betrayal. Other people don't matter but the lack of support from your own brother is glaringly obvious and it seems the anti brigade are taking their lead from him.

Just a thought. They could just as easily be at odds over an alleged case of adultery. We don't know, but what we do know is there is definitely a distinct chill in the relationship between William and Harry.

 

[Hallo girl]

Perhaps Harry expected a degree of support from his brother that was not only not forthcoming but was exactly the opposite. He would remember Catherine's entry to the family.

Firstly, I believe that Harry really likes Catherine but, when the tabloids went after her Harry was there for them, he told everyone she was the sister he'd never had. His support of William and even more of Catherine was unrestrained.

With the barrage of nasty publicity against Meghan, Harry must feel the absence of William's support from he and Meghan's side as a betrayal. Other people don't matter but the lack of support from your own brother is glaringly obvious and it seems the anti brigade are taking their lead from him.

Just a thought. They could just as easily be at odds over an alleged case of adultery. We don't know, but what we do know is there is definitely a distinct chill in the relationship between William and Harry.

You are right we do not know anything, it is all assumption.

I am always surprised how on this forum it sometimes suits posters to believe hearsay and gossip about some members of the family but if against others it must be lies.

As we all know the royals do not complain or explain, we will probably never know the full story and why should we.

 

[Hallo girl]

I could not disagree more..They are doing THE most important job adults can do.. bringing up their children [and our future King, and Royal family], in a warm, secure and well adjusted family. Their children are yet young, and [God willing] there are years aplenty ahead to do charity stuff.
What matters to me, is a secure bedrock for the future, and the most important part of that is the well being of their children.

I agree with your comments, as youngsters Charles and Anne were separated from their parents for months at a time, because the queen came to the throne much earlier than had been expected.

While still married to Charles, Diana did a number of engagements within a reasonable distance to KP to allow her to spend as much time with her boys as possible.

I am sure Her Majesty is giving the Cambridges as much time as possible with their children knowing that a day will come when that will not be possible, which I am sure she will do with Harry and Meghan.

If HM had a problem with the number of engagements carried out by either the Cambridges or the Sussex's she would do something about it.

In this day of feminism there can be a tendency to view with disdain mothers who want to be exactly that mothers and home builders.
Before anybody jumps on me I am not referring to anybody on here just a general observation of the world we live in.

 

[duchessrachel]

I agree with your comments, as youngsters Charles and Anne were separated from their parents for months at a time, because the queen came to the throne much earlier than had been expected.

While still married to Charles, Diana did a number of engagements within a reasonable distance to KP to allow her to spend as much time with her boys as possible.

I am sure Her Majesty is giving the Cambridges as much time as possible with their children knowing that a day will come when that will not be possible, which I am sure she will do with Harry and Meghan.

If HM had a problem with the number of engagements carried out by either the Cambridges or the Sussex's she would do something about it.

In this day of feminism there can be a tendency to view with disdain mothers who want to be exactly that mothers and home builders.
Before anybody jumps on me I am not referring to anybody on here just a general observation of the world we live in.

She also would not have given the Duchess of Cambridge the DCVO if she was unhappy with her. I have a feeling that down the line, the Duchess of Sussex will get one too.

 

[Hallo girl]

She also would not have given the Duchess of Cambridge the DCVO if she was unhappy with her. I have a feeling that down the line, the Duchess of Sussex will get one too.

More than likely, also the family honour,

 

[Mbruno]

She also would not have given the Duchess of Cambridge the DCVO if she was unhappy with her. I have a feeling that down the line, the Duchess of Sussex will get one too.

Didn’t Catherine get the GCVO rather than the DCVO ?

 

[Hallo girl]

Didn’t Catherine get the GCVO rather than the DCVO ?

Yes you are right, it is referred to as the Dame Grand Cross but the abbreviation is the GCVO.

 

[Mbruno]

Yes you are right, it is referred to as the Dame Grand Cross but the abbreviation is the GCVO.

DCVO would be Dame Commander, which is a lower grade equivalent to the one Harry holds (KCVO). Unlike GCVOs, neither KCVOs nor DCVOs wear sashes.

 

[duchessrachel]

Yes you are right, it is referred to as the Dame Grand Cross but the abbreviation is the GCVO.

Whoops! Thank you.

 

[theroyalfly]

She also would not have given the Duchess of Cambridge the DCVO if she was unhappy with her. I have a feeling that down the line, the Duchess of Sussex will get one too.

I don't think the Queen is that petty to only give honors to people she's happy with. She's obviously part of the RF. As for Meghan, it's still her 1st year in the BRF. She will get one too maybe a little earlier considering her impeccable work ethic and compassion in her service representing the BRF.

 

[muriel]

I don't think the Queen is that petty to only give honors to people she's happy with. She's obviously part of the RF. As for Meghan, it's still her 1st year in the BRF. She will get one too maybe a little earlier considering her impeccable work ethic and compassion in her service representing the BRF.

You are right, I, too, do not think the Queen is petty at all. There are no hard and fast rules, and "gongs" like the RFO and GCVO are within the personal gift of the monarch, and are typically given to reward the service of the recipient to the monarch. They can be given at any time, or not at all, as has been the case with Princess Michael of Kent. Even Diana only received the RFO but not the GCVO. I can't remember but did the Duchess of York receive either?

 

[muriel]

Perhaps Harry expected a degree of support from his brother that was not only not forthcoming but was exactly the opposite. He would remember Catherine's entry to the family.

Firstly, I believe that Harry really likes Catherine but, when the tabloids went after her Harry was there for them, he told everyone she was the sister he'd never had. His support of William and even more of Catherine was unrestrained.

With the barrage of nasty publicity against Meghan, Harry must feel the absence of William's support from he and Meghan's side as a betrayal. Other people don't matter but the lack of support from your own brother is glaringly obvious and it seems the anti brigade are taking their lead from him.

Just a thought. They could just as easily be at odds over an alleged case of adultery. We don't know, but what we do know is there is definitely a distinct chill in the relationship between William and Harry.

> I completely agree with your broad point that we don't quite know what actually transpired within the family, so can only speculate up to a point.

> Was it the alleged lack of support from William? Was it the alleged adultery? Was it William warning Harry about things we do not know about or suggesting he take this slower, who knows?

> If it was indeed the alleged lack of support from William for Meghan (and again, at this stage, we are only speculating), one can only question why that may happen, given the obvious closeness between William, Harry and Catherine over the years. What could well have transpired between them for William to allegedly not be supportive, and for Harry to subsequently take umbrage?

> Running with that thought process, I remain surprised at how rapidly things appear to have descended that within a few short months of the wedding, that H&M not only did not want to live at KP, but could not bear to be part of the same household and even the same Foundation. More questions than answers for us royal watchers, but at one level, the answers to these questions must remain within the family than ones for public debate and discourse.

> That said, I do remain surprised that H&M do seem to have very successfully alienated themselves from the UK media. It is rare to see a single article about them that is positive. Harry was a relatively successful operator previously, and I am surprised about the widespread negativity, even from loyal members of the royal pack like Arthur, that seems to emanate. Questions that I am sure are being asked within the family!

 

[Lilyflo]

You are right, I, too, do not think the Queen is petty at all. There are no hard and fast rules, and "gongs" like the RFO and GCVO are within the personal gift of the monarch, and are typically given to reward the service of the recipient to the monarch. They can be given at any time, or not at all, as has been the case with Princess Michael of Kent. Even Diana only received the RFO but not the GCVO. I can't remember but did the Duchess of York receive either?

No the Duchess of York didn't receive any honours.

 

[JessRulz]

You are right, I, too, do not think the Queen is petty at all. There are no hard and fast rules, and "gongs" like the RFO and GCVO are within the personal gift of the monarch, and are typically given to reward the service of the recipient to the monarch. They can be given at any time, or not at all, as has been the case with Princess Michael of Kent. Even Diana only received the RFO but not the GCVO. I can't remember but did the Duchess of York receive either?

No, Sarah didn't receive either the RFO or an order during her marriage. Diana was the last married-in to receive the RFO the year of her wedding, all brides since then have had to wait several years to be awarded it (Camilla the quickest at two years).

Based on the way the Queen has been awarding orders to married-ins over the last two decades, I personally don't expect Meghan to receive the Queen's RFO simply due to timing.

Now watch the Queen live to 110 to prove me wrong

 

[muriel]

No the Duchess of York didn't receive any honours.

No, Sarah didn't receive either the RFO or an order during her marriage.

I thought so, thank you for confirming.

Diana was the last married-in to receive the RFO the year of her wedding, all brides since then have had to wait several years to be awarded it (Camilla the quickest at two years).

Based on the way the Queen has been awarding orders to married-ins over the last two decades, I personally don't expect Meghan to receive the Queen's RFO simply due to timing.

I have to agree with the Queen's approach to giving the married-in's some time to earn their RFO. TO me, this is what makes it feel like an honour, as it recognises service to the monarch, as opposed to something that came with the job automatically.

 

[Madame Verseau]

I'm curious about Meghan's birthday at Balmoral. Besides the Sussexes staying there and a tea what else?

 

[theroyalfly]

You are right, I, too, do not think the Queen is petty at all. There are no hard and fast rules, and "gongs" like the RFO and GCVO are within the personal gift of the monarch, and are typically given to reward the service of the recipient to the monarch. They can be given at any time, or not at all, as has been the case with Princess Michael of Kent. Even Diana only received the RFO but not the GCVO. I can't remember but did the Duchess of York receive either?

As with the case with Princess Michael of Kent, I think this is because she is not a working royal. She does not represent the Queen. His husband anyway received KCVO in 1992 and was elevated to GCVO in 2003. I wonder why she's not given even the RFO. But we can only speculate.

 

[tommy100]

My understanding was that "back in the day" say 80s/90s the Michael's were allowed to work commercially hence, IMO,why the Queen has not bestowed such orders/honours on them. Likewise she has not done so with her grandchildren who work in paying jobs.

The difference is that the Michael's still have HRH and do some charity events but really I guess we would class them like Eugenie and Beatrice are now.

 

[duchessrachel]

I don't think the Queen is that petty to only give honors to people she's happy with. She's obviously part of the RF. As for Meghan, it's still her 1st year in the BRF. She will get one too maybe a little earlier considering her impeccable work ethic and compassion in her service representing the BRF.

That is not how I meant my statement. I did not mean that those who don't have honors are those she is unhappy with.

 

[Mbruno]

I don't think the Queen is that petty to only give honors to people she's happy with. She's obviously part of the RF. As for Meghan, it's still her 1st year in the BRF. She will get one too maybe a little earlier considering her impeccable work ethic and compassion in her service representing the BRF.

Diana and Fergie never got a British order of knighthood, which doesn't necessarily mean that Queen Elizabeth didn't like them, but rather that she doesn't give away orders to her family automatically in the way some other monarchs in continental Europe do.

If Meghan remains a member of the RF long enough, she may (or probably will) get her order. I don't think, however, that she will get a GCVO like Catherine or Sophie before Harry is also upgraded from KCVO to GCVO, or KG (the latter in my opinion probably won't happen until Charles is king). She may well start with a DCVO, or she may get no order for quite a while.


EDIT: Since Meghan is interested in humanitarian causes, I personally would like to see her get involved with the Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of St John of Jerusalem, which is the British/Anglican equivalent to the Catholic Order of Malta as a successor to the ancient medieval order of the Knights Hospitaller. Although it is not a national or dynastic order, QEII is the sovereign of the order and the Duke of Gloucester is the current Grand Prior.

 

[theroyalfly]

That is not how I meant my statement. I did not mean that those who don't have honors are those she is unhappy with.

Yes I read it it again and my apologies. It's true. The rumor circulating that the Queen is unhappy about Kate is apparently not something I take seriously too. She was given the GCVO for an apparent reason.

 

[ACO]

>> That said, I do remain surprised that H&M do seem to have very successfully alienated themselves from the UK media. It is rare to see a single article about them that is positive. Harry was a relatively successful operator previously, and I am surprised about the widespread negativity, even from loyal members of the royal pack like Arthur, that seems to emanate. Questions that I am sure are being asked within the family!

I am not. This is the same press pack that kicked off their coverage of Meghan with very disgusting references to her background. It has only increased as the relationship got more serious. And when someone like Arthur who literally in print said "Unless you gives us what we want we will insult you." then they are not worth any kind of acknowledgement. Their weak attempts at threats failed.

Definitely agree that if The Queen had issues with any of their actions she would make it known. Instead she has supported them and handed down important honors and patronages to them. This has been a big year for Kate in these terms. She should be very proud of that.

 

[theroyalfly]

Diana and Fergie never got a British order of knighthood, which doesn't necessarily mean that Queen Elizabeth didn't like them, but rather that she doesn't give away orders to her family automatically in the way some other monarchs in continental Europe do.

If Meghan remains a member of the RF long enough, she may (or probably will) get her order. I don't think, however, that she will get a GCVO like Catherine or Sophie before Harry is also upgraded from KCVO to GCVO, or KG (the latter in my opinion probably won't happen until Charles is king). She may well start with a DCVO, or she may get no order for quite a while.


EDIT: Since Meghan is interested in humanitarian causes, I personally would like to see her get involved with the Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of St John of Jerusalem, which is the British/Anglican equivalent to the Catholic Order of Malta as a successor to the ancient medieval order of the Knights Hospitaller. Although it is not a national or dynastic order, QEII is the sovereign of the order and the Duke of Gloucester is the current Grand Prior.

1. I'm sorry but I didn't say that the Queen didn't like Diana and Sarah that's why they weren't given such honors.
2. Meghan might be given the same order when Charles assumes the throne. And I didn't say she's rushing or what. Harry has KCVO, that's a fact. In time, he'll get what he deserves.

 

[Hallo girl]

A question for all the experts out there, is the gift of the royal family order announced in anyway?. We see them on the ladies when they attend state dinners, but not really any other time. Is it possible that the queens female adult grandchildren do have them but because they do not attend state dinners we never have the opportunity to see them worn.

The gift is totally at HM 's pleasure, for female members of the family.
Would it need to be announced, or is it just when we see them worn that we know about them.

 

[JessRulz]

A question for all the experts out there, is the gift of the royal family order announced in anyway?. We see them on the ladies when they attend state dinners, but not really any other time. Is it possible that the queens female adult grandchildren do have them but because they do not attend state dinners we never have the opportunity to see them worn.

The gift is totally at HM 's pleasure, for female members of the family.
Would it need to be announced, or is it just when we see them worn that we know about them.

The awarding of an RFO is not announced - we only know when a lady has received it when she shows up wearing it. Other orders - like the Garter, Thistle, Victorian Order - are officially announced (and then the individual is invested with the order).

For example, when Kate wore her RFO for the first time publicly at the Dutch State Visit last year, RRs made it known that it was actually the second time she had worn it, the first actually being at the 2017 Diplomatic Reception which we didn't get many photos of. Meaning Kate went nearly a whole year without the majority of people knowing she had been awarded the RFO, because it does not get announced.

It is indeed possible that the Queen's granddaughters have her RFO - I would hope that they do, as a special gift from Granny. I venture to guess the first occasion we have to 'know' if they do is at Charles's coronation, when it occurs.

 

[Dman]

There’s a sense that Meghan hasn’t gotten the public support she needs from her brother-in-law. But that’s just speculation, because we don’t know how things are between them behind closed doors.

We haven’t really gotten the chance to see these couples together outside of formal family events though. No polo events. No charity events.

 

[Hallo girl]

The awarding of an RFO is not announced - we only know when a lady has received it when she shows up wearing it. Other orders - like the Garter, Thistle, Victorian Order - are officially announced (and then the individual is invested with the order).

For example, when Kate wore her RFO for the first time publicly at the Dutch State Visit last year, RRs made it known that it was actually the second time she had worn it, the first actually being at the 2017 Diplomatic Reception which we didn't get many photos of. Meaning Kate went nearly a whole year without the majority of people knowing she had been awarded the RFO, because it does not get announced.

It is indeed possible that the Queen's granddaughters have her RFO - I would hope that they do, as a special gift from Granny. I venture to guess the first occasion we have to 'know' if they do is at Charles's coronation, when it occurs.

I would agree, as it is a personal gift from the monarch you cannot imagine that her grand daughters do not have one.
We might find out one day as you say...

 

[Osipi]

There’s a sense that Meghan hasn’t gotten the public support she needs from her brother-in-law. But that’s just speculation, because we don’t know how things are between them behind closed doors.

We haven’t really gotten the chance to see these couples together outside of formal family events though. No polo events. No charity events.

There's really been a whole lot of speculation that something is amiss and wrong between the brothers and their spouses because it seems to be the one that the press is stoking the fire with. Its what it *looks* like right now. As royal watchers, we've reveled in seeing Harry and William joke about each other and tease each other and then there were three of them when Kate joined in the mix. All was well and that's what we were used to seeing all the time.

Personally, I have a theory that the culprit playing into this discord is nothing more than the word *transition*. The transitioning of all four main players into the world of being full time working royals. The transitioning of all four players into streamlining their own households, roles and incentives to carry into the next reign. Both couples have their own families and their own residences that suit them. All the ducks are quacking as they line up in a row ready to transition easily into the next reign.

When was the last time any of us saw Edward and Andrew do things jointly? Or Anne and Charles? Or Sophie and Kate. None of these happen very often (if at all). Individually, they can cover more ground and causes and engagements without teaming up. I do believe its all the machinations with "The Boss" directing traffic as she assigns more and more duties to Charles and has entrusted her precious Commonwealth to Harry and Meghan and William is getting more and more involved in the Duchy of Cornwall affairs.

Things are changing but I don't believe that there's a "personal" reason between the two brothers that is causing it. The "Firm" is a well oiled and smoothly running corporation and its "Boss" has been busy behind the scenes and seeing as this "Boss" was once a Girl Guide, I think she took their motto to heart. "Be Prepared" When the time does come for Charles to take the throne as King, everything is going to be in place for a smooth transition.

So that's it in a nutshell for me. Its easy to imagine a "feud" or a "split" or a "parting of ways" in the here and the now between the brothers but things aren't always as they seem to be and we, the public, and even the press aren't in the loop of just why things happen the way they do sometimes.

I'm going to just keep watching and carrying on.

 

[Hallo girl]

There's really been a whole lot of speculation that something is amiss and wrong between the brothers and their spouses because it seems to be the one that the press is stoking the fire with. Its what it *looks* like right now. As royal watchers, we've reveled in seeing Harry and William joke about each other and tease each other and then there were three of them when Kate joined in the mix. All was well and that's what we were used to seeing all the time.

Personally, I have a theory that the culprit playing into this discord is nothing more than the word *transition*. The transitioning of all four main players into the world of being full time working royals. The transitioning of all four players into streamlining their own households, roles and incentives to carry into the next reign. Both couples have their own families and their own residences that suit them. All the ducks are quacking as they line up in a row ready to transition easily into the next reign.

When was the last time any of us saw Edward and Andrew do things jointly? Or Anne and Charles? Or Sophie and Kate. None of these happen very often (if at all). Individually, they can cover more ground and causes and engagements without teaming up. I do believe its all the machinations with "The Boss" directing traffic as she assigns more and more duties to Charles and has entrusted her precious Commonwealth to Harry and Meghan and William is getting more and more involved in the Duchy of Cornwall affairs.

Things are changing but I don't believe that there's a "personal" reason between the two brothers that is causing it. The "Firm" is a well oiled and smoothly running corporation and its "Boss" has been busy behind the scenes and seeing as this "Boss" was once a Girl Guide, I think she took their motto to heart. "Be Prepared" When the time does come for Charles to take the throne as King, everything is going to be in place for a smooth transition.

So that's it in a nutshell for me. Its easy to imagine a "feud" or a "split" or a "parting of ways" in the here and the now between the brothers but things aren't always as they seem to be and we, the public, and even the press aren't in the loop of just why things happen the way they do sometimes.

I'm going to just keep watching and carrying on.

That is all very true, even in our own lives, as brothers and sisters marry and have their own families we do not all get together as often as we once did.
Between work, then children commitments, running our homes we do not all meet up except at special family events.

The single one in the family who came around all the time cadging a meal or just somewhere to go on a Saturday night, gets married now has his own home and family.
He is then very content to sit in his own home with his family,

Nobody has an argument, there is no big fall out. Just lives changing,