Relationships between Members of the British Royal Family

[Winnie]

As far as I am concerned, none of this garbage against Meghan would have even been started if Samantha and Tom Jr. hadn't started their vile jealous ranting months prior to Meghan and Harry's engagement. That is when the tabloids jumped on the band-wagon and offered mega money to them and they jumped for joy twisting stories and having hate filled nonsense printed for cash. If they had been normal humans [picture Kate's family and what they were called in media for 10 years], and refused interviews and money, I believe Meghan would have had a clean ride. I personally don't know one person that even cares about her mixed race, so what. Skin color doesn't make a person. I do not believe this is a racist problem at all. To me it will always be a money-making media dance that has found quite nasty jealous family members and are enjoying embarrassing Harry and Meghan. Shame. Now normal media is turning big time against Tom, Jr and Samantha and they are looking like dirt. Wonder if they still think it was worth it. Read where Samantha is actually having a hard time getting anyone interested in purchasing her novel. Wonder why. In order for her to make a proper profit they will have to sell quite a few thousand to public. We will see, but of course, media could always lie about that also. What a world

 

[Betsypaige]

I thought the tabloids in the States were bad........ They don't have Charles and Diana to kick around anymore (wait, not true - I Google Prince Charles because I like reading about him, and I see articles about things they said to or about each other from decades ago), so now they seem to want to cause a split between the brothers and their wives. Oh wait, not even just the brothers, but between William, Harry and their father. I've already seen 3 or 4 of the same type article claiming that because William and Harry left the Charles' birthday party before Philip that SOMETHING must be amiss between them. How stupid. I assume if Harry did leave early that it's because Meghan is pregnant and, you know, very possibly exhausted. William and Kate have young children as well as an infant...... I still haven't had a chance to watch that BBC special on Charles that aired recently, but if anyone in the media saw that and has still decided that William and Harry can't abide their father, then I have a bridge to sell them (in Brooklyn)

 

[Dman]

I don’t see any evidence that antipathy towards Meghan in royal circles has anything to do with “ race”. As hard as it may be for Americans to accept that, the truth is “ race” is not as central to social relations in the UK and other countries as it is in the US.

The major problem with Meghan is that many people , like Piers Morgan in his DM article, still see her as a ruthless social climber who uses people to advance her own agenda and discards them when they are no longer needed ( I am just quoting Piers here ).

Personally, I also feel she doesn’t understand yet her position in the Royal Family ( or, to put it in another way, how the Family’s hierarchy works) and has been trying to punch above her weight since she came in as revealed in the Telegraph’s article. That kind of attitude would obviously trigger a reaction from staff and even Family members.

What in the world are you’re talking about? Meghan hasn’t done anything but her duties in supporting Harry and the The Queen and getting herself prepared to welcome her first born.

 

[akina21]

I can't read Telegraph articles as they are behind a pay wall.
I can accept that as an American, it would be hard for her to acclimatise to the way things work in a monarchy.
But in what way has she tried to punch above her weight?

Maybe not punching above her weight but I think Meghan doesn't understand that the royal family isn't her vehicle to advance her and her causes, that it's the other way around , she is supposed to represent the monarch . In a way she's the tool , not the person using it.

 

[ACO]

What examples (aka proof) is there that she doesn't "know her place" which seems to be what is heavily implied there. What exactly has she done that indicates lack of understanding her position? I agree she might have some old couriers uneasy because they are not used to her yet but that doesn't mean she doesn't fully understand she is the wife of the current 6th in line.

Who exactly has she discarded? And please spare me the horrendous family members who have beyond proven why she no longer associates with them. Also clearly race is a major issue since people were arrested this week plotting against them strictly based off the fact Meghan is of color. Not the only one but it is pretty consistent.

As for the Emily Andrews piece, I still think they blowing things up for the sake of just dragging out the stories. I do think they all aren't BFFs but I also don't think there is any massive drama either. 4 grown people want their own space. They don't have to work and live together. Probably the best thing in the long run.

 

[Osipi]

I don’t see any evidence that antipathy towards Meghan in royal circles has anything to do with “ race”. As hard as it may be for Americans to accept that, the truth is “ race” is not as central to social relations in the UK and other countries as it is in the US.

The major problem with Meghan is that many people , like Piers Morgan in his DM article, still see her as a ruthless social climber who uses people to advance her own agenda and discards them when they are no longer needed ( I am just quoting Piers here ).

Personally, I also feel she doesn’t understand yet her position in the Royal Family ( or, to put it in another way, how the Family’s hierarchy works) and has been trying to punch above her weight since she came in as revealed in the Telegraph’s article. That kind of attitude would obviously trigger a reaction from staff and even Family members.

Leopards cannot and do not ever change their spots. That's a fact. They don't know how to knit sweaters or buy team jerseys. That's pretty much saying that character traits are what they are and the true colors of a person (not racial, mind you, but character wise) will show themselves.

I find it a conundrum that a person that has been shown by many examples through their lifetime of being of such a nature that making a difference in this world for those that need it could also be the type of person that would use people to further their own agenda. Those traits are totally on the opposite ends of the spectrum and from what I've seen, Meghan has never come across as having a "use 'em then lose 'em" mindset.

What you say, Mbruno, about not being used to how the hierarchy in the "Firm" works may very well be a valid point. We only have to read one Daily Fail comment section to be informed that the BRF are "spongers" and have everything done for them. We know this isn't true but in reality, the BRF does have staff they depend on to do their jobs so that their lives and their activities run smoothly. Enter Meghan, a woman that has, for most of her lifetime, has accomplished everything she has up to meeting Harry by applying her own elbow grease to the wheel to "get 'er done". With this in mind, it would be natural for Meghan to want to be involved with every single aspect of her royal role and frankly, that could be a hindrance to the staff whose job it is to arrange Meghan's life and events to go smoothly. Perhaps she needs to learn to be "the Duchess that lunches" a bit more and leave staff to do what staff does best.

Nobody adapts to a totally unfamiliar lifestyle overnight and its only been going on seven months that Meghan has been officially part of the British royal family and its "Firm". There is going to be trial and error but I do believe that Meghan will adapt beautifully as time passes.

As for the stories. Meghan isn't pictured out and about that we get a slew of articles such as "The Duchess spotted riding her bike" or "The Duchess spotted leaving the restaurant" as we see a lot of with Lady Kitty Spencer so nothing along those lines for the press to bleat about. The events she has attended have been few and far between that the press can jump on for stories and there's not much in those that can generate opinions other than her fashions and her blossoming pregnancy. To keep their reading public's interest, its the sordid, scandalous, outrageous and the "tell all" scoops that generate the cash for reporter's pockets.

If anything comes out of all this, I think it would be a realization for Meghan just what her mother-in-law faced day in and day out as The Princess of Wales and after her divorce. I also believe that all of this is not going to cause rifts in the family but actually draw them closer as a support system. It may even cement Harry and Meghan's marriage even more as they face this time together. They have each other to lean on.

Just my two cents worth here.

 

[Muhler]

What examples (aka proof) is there that she doesn't "know her place" which seems to be what is heavily implied there. What exactly hasn't she done that indicates lack of understanding her position?

Who exactly has she discarded? And please spare me the horrendous family members who have beyond proven why she no longer associates with them. Also clearly race is a major issue since people were arrested this week plotting against them strictly based off the fact Meghan is of color. Not the only one but it is pretty consistent.

As for the Emily Andrews piece, I still think they blowing things up for the sake of just dragging out the stories. I do think they all aren't BFFs but I also don't think there is any massive drama either. 4 grown people want their own space. They don't have to work and live together. Probably the best thing in the long run.

From my detached point of view: None.

There are IMO little to no evidence that points to a rift between Meghan and Kate, and just as little substantial evidence that points to a rift between Harry and William.
There is admittedly just as little evidence that points to there not being a rift between various family members.
And that's how it will remain, until named staff members and friends go public and confirm that there are problems.
Or there is a public row.
- Both of which are unlikely to happen.

So most in this thread is basically speculation, based on speculation and (perhaps, repeat perhaps) some rumors and second hand reports in some papers with a dubious reputation for shall we say "biased" angling of their articles and an alternative interpretation of facts.

 

[Dman]

Maybe not punching above her weight but I think Meghan doesn't understand that the royal family isn't her vehicle to advance her and her causes, that it's the other way around , she is supposed to represent the monarch . In a way she's the tool , not the person using it.

What on earth do you think she’s been doing? She’s representing The Queen since day 1 after her engagement and wedding.

Y’all trippin!

 

[Osipi]

I agree with you, Dman, that she's done a good job so far. In public. Its also possible though that she needs to adjust to how things are done at the office level. Seeing that up until she met Harry, she basically had her fist into every pie that she was baking and flour on her nose to boot, perhaps she is overly eager to do the same with her royal role. Where other members of the BRF have learned well the word "delegate", perhaps Meghan needs to muse over that word and realize that she *can* delegate responsibilities to her office staff and let them do the work.

Now, mind you, this is only a huge speculation on my part but I can see where that would be an area of adaptation that Meghan may need to adjust to. ?

 

[Dman]

I agree with you, Dman, that she's done a good job so far. In public. Its also possible though that she needs to adjust to how things are done at the office level. Seeing that up until she met Harry, she basically had her fist into every pie that she was baking and flour on her nose to boot, perhaps she is overly eager to do the same with her royal role. Where other members of the BRF have learned well the word "delegate", perhaps Meghan needs to muse over that word and realize that she *can* delegate responsibilities to her office staff and let them do the work.

Now, mind you, this is only a huge speculation on my part but I can see where that would be an area of adaptation that Meghan may need to adjust to. ?

It’s just pure speculation about her and the staff. Also, let’s remember that she her staff boss, it’s not the other way round. She's the mistress (old school talk) of her household.

Osipi, I knew this was going to happen though. I knew the media was going to turn on Meghan for no reason at all. Her father and his side of family acted a fool towards her leading up to the wedding and afterwards. She kept her head high and got on with things. She toured the UK and was beautifully received by the people, stood on ceremony with the family and embarked on her first major successful tour. She performed brilliantly through it all...while newly pregnant btw.

Now, the successful year is coming to an end and the press has decided to make her out to be a problem. A problem with her staff, a problem within the family and breaking up the relationship between two brothers.

What has she’s done to deserve this very harsh treatment? It wouldn’t surprise me if Doria came over to the London and took her daughter home. Just get her away from an ungrateful UK press.

 

[Fem]

If anything comes out of all this, I think it would be a realization for Meghan just what her mother-in-law faced day in and day out as The Princess of Wales and after her divorce. I also believe that all of this is not going to cause rifts in the family but actually draw them closer as a support system. It may even cement Harry and Meghan's marriage even more as they face this time together. They have each other to lean on.

Just my two cents worth here.

I think we should really leave the "Meghan is as hounded as Princess Diana" narrative, it's getting boring. Whatever nastiness is going on today with Meghan, it's not even close to what was going on in 80s and 90s with Princess Diana. I'd even say it's not even close to what Catherine had to face before the engagement, with the press literally stalking her every move, calling her names to get a reaction from here, not being able to walk to her car.

Seriously, it's just a few bad articles and people are behaving like it's the end of the world.

 

[Dman]

I think we should really leave the "Meghan is as hounded as Princess Diana" narrative, it's getting boring. Whatever nastiness is going on today with Meghan, it's not even close to what was going on in 80s and 90s with Princess Diana. I'd even say it's not even close to what Catherine had to face before the engagement, with the press literally stalking her every move, calling her names to get a reaction from here, not being able to walk to her car.

Seriously, it's just a few bad articles and people are behaving like it's the end of the world.

It’s not a few bad articles. The Duchess of Sussex is under full attack by the UK press. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if she or Harry issued a Palace press release at some point. She’s being torn to shreds out there.

 

[Osipi]

I think we should really leave the "Meghan is as hounded as Princess Diana" narrative, it's getting boring. Whatever nastiness is going on today with Meghan, it's not even close to what was going on in 80s and 90s with Princess Diana. I'd even say it's not even close to what Catherine had to face before the engagement, with the press literally stalking her every move, calling her names to get a reaction from here, not being able to walk to her car.

Seriously, it's just a few bad articles and people are behaving like it's the end of the world.

That comparison actually was made in a context that fits the subject of this thread and the relationship between Meghan and Harry (members of the BRF).

While dating, Harry could have spent hours upon hours relating to her the horrors of what his mother went through with the press and how it affected him and his family. With Meghan being exposed to a similar situation, Meghan can look at what Harry went through empathetically rather than just sympathically. A deeper resolve may grow between the two of them that their children will never have to face anything like this and they'll take steps.

Sorry if it seemed I was dragging Diana into all of this bizarre press stuffs. I should have elaborated more, I guess. ?

 

[Lumutqueen]

It’s not a few bad articles. The Duchess of Sussex is under full attack by the UK press. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if she or Harry issued a Palace press release at some point. She’s being torn to shreds out there.

I disagree, any formal announcement would add significant fuel to the fire. The press are bored and that’s it. When they’re back on view this drama will blow over. It’s quite unfortunate that they seem to have a string of engagements that they could have attended together and they haven’t, for reasons we don’t know of course. This is making the situation worse.

What would be a great PR move, is to get them out together, a picture would 1000% trump a social media announcement.

Catherine went through a similar attack before she married William, the only difference here is that because Meghan was based in the US it would have been hard to get momentum behind a story.

Meghan’s friend Priyanka Chopra and her new husband Nick Jonas have just been through something quite similar, after their marriage it was claimed she was a social climber and the marriage was a sham for press. She uses people and moves on. What have they done? Come out and shown themselves together, their families have supported them. Whilst they’re not “royal” they’re damn fine at quashing a story.

 

[soapstar]

Once again, this thread is not about Meghan and the media/tabloids. It’s about the relationships between members of the BRF. Let’s stick to the topic, please. Any further off-topic comments will be deleted.

 

[Dman]

I disagree, any formal announcement would add significant fuel to the fire. The press are bored and that’s it. When they’re back on view this drama will blow over. It’s quite unfortunate that they seem to have a string of engagements that they could have attended together and they haven’t, for reasons we don’t know of course. This is making the situation worse.

What would be a great PR move, is to get them out together, a picture would 1000% trump a social media announcement.

Catherine went through a similar attack before she married William, the only difference here is that because Meghan was based in the US it would have been hard to get momentum behind a story.

Meghan’s friend Priyanka Chopra and her new husband Nick Jonas have just been through something quite similar, after their marriage it was claimed she was a social climber and the marriage was a sham for press. She uses people and moves on. What have they done? Come out and shown themselves together, their families have supported them. Whilst they’re not “royal” they’re damn fine at quashing a story.

I agree with you. Some official engagements together would be great and would squash the stories out there. The family is about embark on their Christmas break now though. They should do some family holiday engagements together.

Something should be done because all this stuff is getting ridiculous.

 

[Osipi]

I believe that the British royal family will go about their lives and their business as they've planned it to be. To do anything else would be playing to peanut gallery and they won't stoop that low.

Their private lives are just that. Private. They don't need to validate, explain, disprove or "correct" anything that isn't supposed to be in the public domain in the first place.

I would really love to hear the story of the voices from the toaster though.

 

[Dman]

Some family outings together would do wonders though. With Christmas getting close, I’m afraid the window is closing and leaving plenty of room for things to get worse.

 

[tommy100]

I think the lack of a sudden slew of "aren't we so close" pictures of the two couples just goes to prove that there isn't a problem.
So far its just malicious gossip based on very few, if any facts. The RF know if they are seen to respond to it in anyway then the media will report they are "panicked" by it.
According to reports W&H are hosting M&H for Christmas and I suspect that is a clear sign they get along just fine. Of course they may not be best friends but how many sisters-in-law are or would be expected to be? W&H were only ever going to "dift apart" once they were both married they couldn't keep up the closeness of two bereaved teenagers.

 

[Osipi]

Some family outings together would do wonders though. With Christmas getting close, I’m afraid the window is closing and leaving plenty of room for things to get worse.

I think the opposite. They are going to be determined to assure that what is private, remains private. To them, this is nothing but noise to be ignored and they're not losing sleep over what other people write or say or think about their interpersonal relationships. The only people things are going to get worse for are the people that buy into the claptrap.

They have nothing to prove to anyone, anywhere.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Last year there were a slew of stories about a rift between Charles and his sons when they did the documentaries and claimed that 'no one in the family gave them any support when their mother died' - which Harry later recanted (so what is the truth we will probably never know as they said both that their father was there for them and that he wasn't).

The BRF then send William and Charles on a joint engagement to show that the stories weren't true - but it didn't work. The population still believed then, and many still do, that things aren't all the well between the princes and their father.

Joint engagements these days don't prove anything - other than the BRF knows how to put on a show of togetherness even when they can't stand each other.

The truth is we don't know whether there are any problems in the relationships.

Some people are determined to believe in the fairy tale type relationships with no issues at all ever. Some prefer to believe that the brothers are at loggerheads all the time. The reality is probably somewhere in between as is the case in normal human relationships.

 

[Dman]

Last year there were a slew of stories about a rift between Charles and his sons when they did the documentaries and claimed that 'no one in the family gave them any support when their mother died' - which Harry later recanted (so what is the truth we will probably never know as they said both that their father was there for them and that he wasn't).

The BRF then send William and Charles on a joint engagement to show that the stories weren't true - but it didn't work. The population still believed then, and many still do, that things aren't all the well between the princes and their father.

Joint engagements these days don't prove anything - other than the BRF knows how to put on a show of togetherness even when they can't stand each other.

The truth is we don't know whether there are any problems in the relationships.

Some people are determined to believe in the fairy tale type relationships with no issues at all ever. Some prefer to believe that the brothers are at loggerheads all the time. The reality is probably somewhere in between as is the case in normal human relationships.

Everyone knows that all families have their ups and downs. That’s just natural. But to publicly bash the newcomer when that newcomer haven’t done anything wrong, is completely different. Now the pops is back in the headlines with an interview and photos. It just won’t end.

 

[jacqui24]

Everyone knows that all families have their ups and downs. That’s just natural. But to publicly bash the newcomer when that newcomer haven’t done anything wrong, is completely different. Now the pops is back in the headlines with an interview and photos. It just won’t end.

What’s even more amazing is when they say it’s not her feuding with anyone, but then basically goes on to blame her for it.

EA went on Twitter and clarified that it’s ultimately just a matter of redrawing boundaries and roles as life change. But of course, she had to sensationalize her article for readership first.

Last year there were a slew of stories about a rift between Charles and his sons when they did the documentaries and claimed that 'no one in the family gave them any support when their mother died' - which Harry later recanted (so what is the truth we will probably never know as they said both that their father was there for them and that he wasn't).

.

Where did he say that? Was Harry resentful that he was forced to mourn his mother in such a way? Sure. Can anyone blame him? But nowhere did he say his dad wasn’t there for him.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Where did he say that? Was Harry resentful that he was forced to mourn his mother in such a way? Sure. Can anyone blame him? But nowhere did he say his dad wasn’t there for him.

They did it in the first two of the three documentaries when they said no one gave them any help when she died.

It wasn't until the third interview that Harry said their father did help them but by then it was too little too late - Charles was again seen as the 'bad father' and his popularity plummeted again.

By saying 'no one helped them' they were saying their father didn't help them and then Harry says he did - so which is the truth?

It was the fall-out from those first two documentaries and the princes saying that they were given no help to deal with their grief that lead to the BRF sending William on an unscheduled engagement with Charles to say to the world 'see there is no rift' but the reality is that the public are now aware enough of this sort of thing to see through it.

 

[jacqui24]

Do you have a video?

 

[Lady Reem]

EA went on Twitter and clarified that it’s ultimately just a matter of redrawing boundaries and roles as life change. But of course, she had to sensationalize her article for readership first.

This is what I am trying very hard to understand, this redrawing of boundaries and roles stuff.... As far as I can tell Prince Charles is still the Prince of Wales and it doesn’t look like he will be King for quite some time to come. The Cambridge’s are NOT yet promoted. Strange how this redrawing of boundaries stuff within that family is starting only now Meghan’s on the scene. I mean it’s not as though she rushes ahead stepping on toes trying to stand or sit in front of other royals during official family events. So why all this mass hysteria, apprehension and smear campaign from outside and within?

 

[Osipi]

This is what I am trying very hard to understand, this redrawing of boundaries and roles stuff.... As far as I can tell Prince Charles is still the Prince of Wales and it doesn’t look like he will be King for quite some time to come. The Cambridge’s are NOT yet promoted. Strange how this redrawing of boundaries stuff within that family is starting only now Meghan’s on the scene. I mean it’s not as though she rushes ahead stepping on toes trying to stand or sit in front or beside other royals during official family events. So why all this mass hysteria, apprehension and smear campaign from outside and within?

We have no idea that this is happening within the family at all. These perceptions are put out there by ambitious royal journalists who *think* they know what is going on behind palace doors. They don't.

If you believe that these are reports that seem to come from "within" the BRF, I've got a 5 year old fruitcake I'll sell you for a really, really good deal.

Then again, I don't read the tabloid garbage either. I've better things to do.

 

[rominet09]

It must be horrible to them…. not being authorized to put things right…. and it wouldn't help anyway…. nobody would Believe them…. better for them to ignore it but it must be very hard.

 

[loonytick]

They did it in the first two of the three documentaries when they said no one gave them any help when she died.

It wasn't until the third interview that Harry said their father did help them but by then it was too little too late - Charles was again seen as the 'bad father' and his popularity plummeted again.

By saying 'no one helped them' they were saying their father didn't help them and then Harry says he did - so which is the truth?

Except they didn’t say that. It was reported that way, but it’s not what they said. They said they *weren’t willing* let their thoughts or emotions out—that’s not the same as saying no one tryed to get them to do so or offered them the help they needed. I’m pretty sure Harry specifically said he had therapy right away but was uncooperative. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink; along the same lines, you can get a grieving teen access to mental health specialists but you can’t make him participate in a meaningful way.

It’s quite telling that the thrust of their mental health campaign (which was the context for those interviews) isn’t about making therapy available so much as it is encouraging people to put aside their fear of talking and access the already available therapeutic resources, because they’re saying that they understand what it is to be too stubborn to participate but have also found that when you let down your guard things can get better. All that says to me that help *was* offered and they wish they’d taken it from the start.

This is what I am trying very hard to understand, this redrawing of boundaries and roles stuff.... As far as I can tell Prince Charles is still the Prince of Wales and it doesn’t look like he will be King for quite some time to come. The Cambridge’s are NOT yet promoted. Strange how this redrawing of boundaries stuff within that family is starting only now Meghan’s on the scene. I mean it’s not as though she rushes ahead stepping on toes trying to stand or sit in front of other royals during official family events. So why all this mass hysteria, apprehension and smear campaign from outside and within?

Actually, I think we saw these changes start after the furor over Will, Kate and Harry supposedly being “work-shy.” That’s when the wheels started turning for William to quit the air ambulance and for he and Harry to become “full time.” But it took a few intermediary steps before they we’re to the point of taking on new titles, etc. We definitely saw William take on a much bigger load of things like investitures before Harry and Meghan’s engagement, and helping ease the Queen’s schedule of ceremonial duties is a big part of his new role.

And that’s what makes splitting into different offices make sense—the days of William and Harry doing essentially the same job are over. Harry increasingly has a Commonwealth focus, William increasingly takes on “standing in for the Queen” duties and is almost shadowing Charles on Duchy of Cornwall business (not public ally, but he’s now attending the duchy leadership meetings to learn the ins and outs of how it’s run).

 

[Osipi]

What you say makes a lot of sense, loonytick. I don't believe it all came about as a result of the reputation of being "work shy". I believe it was all planned out well in advance that William and Harry (and spouse/s) would step up as full time working royals when Philip retired and stepped down (but not out) of the public eye.

Philip retired, Harry ended his active Army service and William gave up working for EAAA and the transition began to shape up. The Queen, herself, referred to it as "Team Windsor". Charles is stepping in for his mother more and more and William is doing more and more representing the Queen, learning the ropes for the Duchy of Cornwall. Harry has married and has been appointed the Commonewealth Youth Ambassador by the Queen. Its coming to pass that William and Harry are going to have different roads to go down and different roles to play on those roads. All good for the monarchy.

To me, its kind of like the Wright Brothers. They started out as just the two of them and created the airplane. As the years passed and the technology grew and grew, we got different airlines, different manufacturers of parts and each of them became their own entity.

This all didn't happen overnight either with the Queen playing her family as pieces on a chessboard. It probably all has been mapped out for quite some time with the family meeting and agreeing to how things should go, plan for any bumps in the road and agree as a family or "Team Windsor" how things will all fall into place. Nothing left to chance.

Its interesting to watch as without being blatantly obvious, HM, The Queen is lining up all her ducks in a row to ensure a smooth transition from monarch to monarch when the time comes.