Relationships between Members of the British Royal Family

[O-H Anglophile]

Is there another thread to continue this discussion since the press portrayal of William & Harry is OT for it? The discussion could be interesting but not in this thread as the mod already asked to get back on topic.

 

[Ish]

Is there another thread to continue this discussion since the press portrayal of William & Harry is OT for it? The discussion could be interesting but not in this thread as the mod already asked to get back on topic.

A more on topic thread would probably be The Royal Family and the Media.

 

[Westfield Bakery]

I wonder how The Princess Margaret would react to Meghan Markle. I really, really mean it.

 

[Osipi]

I wonder how The Princess Margaret would react to Meghan Markle. I really, really mean it.

I really, really don't think we have any basis to project what a person would think unless we conducted a seance using crystal balls, incense, a few tarot cards and actually reached out to Margaret in the Great Beyond.

 

[Denville]

I don't think it would take a crystal ball to guess that Margaret would not take to Meghan....

 

[Curryong]

On the other hand Margaret quite liked actors, singers, comedians and people in show business generally. Margaret enjoyed people with entertaining personalities, didn't like dullness. She almost certainly wouldn't like the awful Markle relatives but she may have liked Meghan personally.

 

[Denville]

I think she'd find her amusing as a friend... but not as a member of the RF..

Except that with Albert Victor and George, or Edward VIII and George VI, it was actually the other way around, i.e. the older brother bad and the younger good. And, with William and Harry, I have never seen any such comparisons.

Harry is portrayed a bit as the "naughty one" if not actively bad.. but now that he's getting married and settling down that will probably ebb. But generally th ones portrayed as the "bad boys" or girls usually were unlikable and behaved badly. Margaret was always selfish and spoiled..[...].. Albert Victor was - well barely fit to be King whereas hs brothe was much more sutiable and it was the same with Ed VIII and George VI...

 

[Somebody]

Personally, I don't see it as an issue not inviting a distant cousin. I certainly don't see it as an indication of lack of respect for the Royal Family as an institution. Freddie Windsor is in no way a close member of either the blood family of the groom, or the working members of the BRF.

Its pretty clear W&H are not really close to Freddie. William and Harry did not even attend the wedding of Freddie Windsor a few years ago at Hampton Court.

Not attending a wedding almost 9 years ago doesn't mean that they aren't close(r) nowadays. Especially, since William & Catherine and Harry now all live at Kensington Palace and George and Maud could be best friends or play mates as they spend a lot of time in the same classroom and parents tend to befriend at least some of their children's friends, and in this case their son's classmate's parent is also a second cousin-once-removed. We at least know for sure that William did reach out to them after Sophie's accident.

 

[sophie25]

Not attending a wedding almost 9 years ago doesn't mean that they aren't close(r) nowadays. Especially, since William & Catherine and Harry now all live at Kensington Palace and George and Maud could be best friends or play mates as they spend a lot of time in the same classroom and parents tend to befriend at least some of their children's friends, and in this case their son's classmate's parent is also a second cousin-once-removed. We at least know for sure that William did reach out to them after Sophie's accident.

Correct! William even referred to Sophie as 'my cousin' when he phoned the hospital asking about her and Charles intervened directly to help when she was ill so there is obviously a level of closeness between these family members. I watched the Queen's birthday concert a few weeks ago on TV and saw Freddie and Sophie there along with the rest of the extended family and was actually thinking how I was looking forward to the wedding and seeing them all at that too. I never thought for a minute they wouldn't be there.

 

[Zonk]

Just because William is close with certain extended members of the family doesn't mean Harry is. They are two different individuals.

 

[Somebody]

Just because William is close with certain extended members of the family doesn't mean Harry is. They are two different individuals.

Completely true. However, we don't really know whether Harry knows Frederick and Gabriella well or that they are just some of the many family members he meets twice a year and doesn't interact with in-between. If some of the second(-once-removed) cousins that are not senior royals are invited and others aren't that would be an indication that he might be closer to those than to others. If all are invited, we still don't have a clue and if no one is invited we still don't know whether they were just treated equally or that he truly has no personal relationship with any of them.

 

[Mbruno]

Completely true. However, we don't really know whether Harry knows Frederick and Gabriella well or that they are just some of the many family members he meets twice a year and doesn't interact with in-between. If some of the second(-once-removed) cousins that are not senior royals are invited and others aren't that would be an indication that he might be closer to those than to others. If all are invited, we still don't have a clue and if no one is invited we still don't know whether they were just treated equally or that he truly has no personal relationship with any of them.

My understanding from the press reports is that none were invited, which, given the circumstances, is the proper thing to do. If he had invited some of his third cousins, but not the others, that would have created a sense of discomfort in the family.

I still wonder, however, if second cousins like the Chatto boys will be invited. BTW, Harry is technically, I think, a second cousin once removed to Lord Frederick or Lady Gabriella, and a third cousin for example to Lady Amelia or Lady Marina. So the degrees of kinship are not exactly the same.

 

[LeDerius]

1930’s - 1950

When Elizabeth was a princess and many of Queen Victoria’s daughters and granddaughters were alive, so you think they spent time with her? And told her stories of when they were little girls? Other than her father’s brothers, I want to know if the other family members made an impression of any sort.

 

[RoyalHighness 2002]

When Elizabeth was a princess and many of Queen Victoria’s daughters and granddaughters were alive, so you think they spent time with her? And told her stories of when they were little girls? Other than her father’s brothers, I want to know if the other family members made an impression of any sort.

I know they must have spent time with Princess Louise, Duchess of Argyll. After she became too unfit too move around and leave Kensington Palace, they called it "Auntie Palace".

 

[Zonk]

My understanding from the press reports is that none were invited, which, given the circumstances, is the proper thing to do. If he had invited some of his third cousins, but not the others, that would have created a sense of discomfort in the family.

I still wonder, however, if second cousins like the Chatto boys will be invited. BTW, Harry is technically, I think, a second cousin once removed to Lord Frederick or Lady Gabriella, and a third cousin for example to Lady Amelia or Lady Marina. So the degrees of kinship are not exactly the same.

This is after the wedding and we all know that the Chatto boys attended. I had no doubt they would be in attendance. Lady Sarah is Harry's godmother and I doubt he would offend her by not inviting her children. Also, the children of the late Princess Margaret are obviously closer to Harry (and by extension Wiliam) than the children and grandchildren of the Kents and Gloucester. Personally, I was a bit surprised that we didn't see Helen, James O., Nicholas, Rose, Davina, etc. Wasn't a bit surprised by the absence of Marina and Amelia Windsor.

For Eugenie's wedding we will at least see her godfather, James Oglivy with his family.

 

[Missy-]

When Elizabeth was a princess and many of Queen Victoria’s daughters and granddaughters were alive, so you think they spent time with her? And told her stories of when they were little girls? Other than her father’s brothers, I want to know if the other family members made an impression of any sort.

I don't think that any of Victoria's daughters would have been around, most of them were long gone by the time Elizabeth was old enough to interact with them, Beatrice being the possible exception. Helena and Louise were both difficult women who were not well, so doubtful that Lilibet would have been around them much. Alice and the Princess Royal were long passed when Elizabeth was born.

Of Victoria's many granddaughters I think a young Elizabeth might have been close with Victoria Mountbatten, Alice Athlone, and Marie Louise of Schleswig-Holstein, all of whom were quite the characters and beloved by the family young and old. They all have individual biographies out there, I would recommend picking any of them up, their stories are fascinating imo.

 

[LauraS3514]

I don't think that any of Victoria's daughters would have been around, most of them were long gone by the time Elizabeth was old enough to interact with them, Beatrice being the possible exception.

.

Princess Beatrice died in 1944 - and 18-year-old Princess Elizabeth attended the funeral. I don't know how close they would have been, but Beatrice may have been one of those elderly "great aunts" (or in this case, great-great aunt!) that so many of us remember.

 

[Gawin]

I don't think that any of Victoria's daughters would have been around, most of them were long gone by the time Elizabeth was old enough to interact with them, Beatrice being the possible exception. Helena and Louise were both difficult women who were not well, so doubtful that Lilibet would have been around them much. Alice and the Princess Royal were long passed when Elizabeth was born.

Of Victoria's many granddaughters I think a young Elizabeth might have been close with Victoria Mountbatten, Alice Athlone, and Marie Louise of Schleswig-Holstein, all of whom were quite the characters and beloved by the family young and old. They all have individual biographies out there, I would recommend picking any of them up, their stories are fascinating imo.

Princess Helena died in 1923, three years before Queen Elizabeth was born. Louise died in 1939 when Elizabeth was 13. Beatrice survived until 1945 but because of World War II I'm not sure how much contact she and Elizabeth had from 1939-45 when Elizabeth lived at Windsor Castle and Beatrice was sent to Brantridge Park, home of the Earl and Countess of Athlone.

I think you're right, Elizabeth probably had much more contact with Princess Alice (who survived until 1980 and was also married to the Queen's great-uncle) and Princess Marie Louise (died 1957).

And you're absolutely right about Victoria Milford Haven [Mountbatten]. She lived at Windsor Castle with Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret during the war and got to know them very well. This is what she wrote to a friend:

"We take our meals together otherwise I am free to do what I like. Princess Elizabeth does host at meals, when her parents are away - when they are here we generally lunch amongst ourselves only. These young girls are charmingly brought up, not shy & quite natural. The younger does not come to dinner as a rule yet...The elder is more attractive to me."

She talked to Elizabeth about her family and their history. "Princess Elizabeth, in particular, had a special interest in the family and loved listening to all of Victoria's stories."

Source: Ilana D. Miller, The Four Graces: Queen Victoria's Hessian Granddaughters (Europhistory.com, 2011), p. 206.

 

[HRHFitz]

I did notice at the Wedding while Harry and William were sitting down waiting for Meghan and the ceremony to start James, Viscount Severn had leaned over and said something to Harry, who answered back and smiled.

Obviously reading a lot into it but it is nice to see and shows that there clearly is some closeness that James feels familiar and comfortable enough with Harry to be able to do that at the wedding.

I like James am the youngest of my cousins and have a similar age gap and I have some cousins who have made the effort to try and connect with me as well as the cousins closer in age and others who don't.

@ 1:46:40

 

[Claire]

I was told , therefore read source uncertain. that James was not actually allowed to attend the wedding. 10 was considered too young to be there and he was actually very upset about it as well the page boys are younger, so he asked Harry specially if he could come. Maybe he was just pointing out that here he was and he was on his best behavior.

 

[Biri]

How it could be possible that he was "not allowed"? He is a member of the family too, big enough to understand what the wedding is and what matters in this ceremony; he is already ten, not two.
In my country young parents are usually invited to the wedding together with their children (such as: "Mrs. and Mr. (names & surname) are cordially invited together with their children to our wedding..."); children attend the Mass and Reception when they dance (even in the circle) and enjoy with adults.
They may even have organized some entertainment especially for them (led by an animator; I think the royal family is able to do it) or even a separate table when they sit together.
Of course the do not rather stay till 4. a.m. but return home earlier to sleep; sometimes even parents go put the child to bed and return to the party.

I even imagine James dancing with the bride and later asking for dance, for example, Lady Lara Spencer.

I was present at a couple of wedding parties and children participated in all of them.

 

[Somebody]

I'm glad he was allowed to come. At royal weddings children are normally not invited (and the page boys and flower girls did not attend the ceremony; they were only decoration for Meghan's walk into the church and the couple's walk out - although George and Charlotte didn't join the others but their parents instead) but James already was the only cousin not invited to William's wedding, so gld to see that he was included now and hopefully will attend Eugenie's wedding as well.

 

[Claire]

I think Eugenie and Jack are going to have a more relaxed weekend. So expect all the kids.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

Interesting articles about Meghan's influence on Harry and William bonding more with Prince Charles, and how much Prince Charles appreciates Meghan and connects with some of her interests. As always, the information may or may not be entirely accurate:

https://www.elle.com/culture/a20951...and-william-get-closer-to-dad-prince-charles/

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/celeb...kle-prince-harry-prince-charles-relationship/

 

[Curryong]

I've never thought that Harry had too bad a relationship with Charles anyway. The two of them have usually seemed to be quite comfortable together. However, if Meghan herself becomes close to Charles that will be lovely and add an extra element.

 

[Countessmeout]

Sorry but is anyone takings seriously the Meghan helping Harry with his dad story

Their source is the Daily Fail. We know the Daily fail makes it money creating drama wherever they can. If it isn't Charles feuding with his sons, it is Charles feuding with Andrew. Or Kate having issues with Camilla.

I do hope Meghan is getting close to her father in law. Considering she asked him to walk her down the aisle, I think she has got on well with him.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

Yep, as I said, unconfirmed, and to be taken with a grain of salt. There's always lots of odd made-up fodder out there, particularly when there's really nothing new to report. I didn't believe the Canada honeymoon gossip at all.

It always pays to remember regardless of any media report, we'll never really know the intimate behind-the-scenes details regarding the royal family members' actual thoughts and interactions with each other. On occasion though, information is approved to be strategically released (sometimes to throw the tabloids and general public off the true scent a bit).

While I've always had the impression that William and Harry get along quite well with Prince Charles, once again we aren't privy to the intimate details of their actual relationship. Neither is the Daily Fail.

 

[_Heather_]

I did notice at the Wedding while Harry and William were sitting down waiting for Meghan and the ceremony to start James, Viscount Severn had leaned over and said something to Harry, who answered back and smiled.

Obviously reading a lot into it but it is nice to see and shows that there clearly is some closeness that James feels familiar and comfortable enough with Harry to be able to do that at the wedding.

I like James am the youngest of my cousins and have a similar age gap and I have some cousins who have made the effort to try and connect with me as well as the cousins closer in age and others who don't.

Clips like these are always my favorite clips of the RF. It's always so nice to see them visiting, laughing, and interacting like any other family when they're not so "on" with people and cameras in their faces. I particularly love clips like the one of Autumn adjusting her hair/hat and asking Peter if it was ok. And it's always nice to see Jack sharing a laugh with Anne/Tim and Peter/Autumn and the rest of the family. Even as they're leaving the church there's a very quick glimpse of Camilla leaning down to speak to George. Nothing elaborate but definitely a nice, quick snapshot inside the family.

 

[RoyalHighness 2002]

I did notice at the Wedding while Harry and William were sitting down waiting for Meghan and the ceremony to start James, Viscount Severn had leaned over and said something to Harry, who answered back and smiled.

Obviously reading a lot into it but it is nice to see and shows that there clearly is some closeness that James feels familiar and comfortable enough with Harry to be able to do that at the wedding.

I like James am the youngest of my cousins and have a similar age gap and I have some cousins who have made the effort to try and connect with me as well as the cousins closer in age and others who don't.

I agree that its nice that Harry and James have a relationship but just to elaborate on the scene where he interacted with him; If you look at where Zara is you can see she is leaning in and joking with Harry and William says hi to Sophie while James and Edward are turning their heads to listen to whats happening. Then after Zara is done, he says hi to Edward and James.

 

[XeniaCasaraghi]

Meghan healing anything is pretty much bull crap written by people who still believe Charles was a bad dad. Regarding James it would be so cute if he got sent his own personal invitation so he would be allowed to go. And if he is 10 now then he was 3 when Will and Kate got married, definitely too young to attend.