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  #1121  
Old 12-27-2018, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
I would agree with this entirely. On top of that, I think Harry is possibly finding it hard to deal with the negative publicity surrounding himself and his wife. While anyone would find it discouraging and infuriating, I really think Harry, in particular, is struggling. We've seen numerous reports about the fact that he was moody and irritable in the lead up to the wedding and now we see reports, and with our own eyes at various events including the Christmas walk, that he doesn't seem to be the smiling, joking, happy go lucky guy he previously was. I suspect that Harry was very, very used to always being a royal family favorite in the eyes of the public and very likely even within the family if past pictures and events are anything to judge by. Now, with the negativity surrounding both he and his wife he may very well be struggling with the idea of not being in a position where he can do no wrong. The stories surrounding Meghan have been brutal but they certainly haven't been flattering about his own behavior and if there's any truth at all to the rumors of his family and in particular his brother expressing concern about his relationship he may well be feeling a bit attacked and at a loss when he's so used to always being looked upon favorably and even affectionately.

When he, Kate, and William were seen as a trio and almost always on equal footing and stories were almost always overwhelmingly positive about their relationships and their interactions it would have been easy to forget or at least ignore the realities that eventually they would be in far different positions, Harry would never be on William's level within the hierarchy, he would eventually be relegated to the "lesser son" position that we see with Andrew and Edward, etc. However, now that the stories are much more negatively toned, his choice of a wife and his own behavior regarding said wife is much maligned in the press, and it's becoming ever clearer that he and the Cambridges are not, in fact, on equal footing, it seems that the realities, while always known, are sinking in for Harry and dampening his spirit tremendously.
I agree, and I think the bolded above is an especially interesting perspective. He was around and observed the years of criticism directed at William and Catherine (work shy, William's temper, Waity Katie, etc.) but was spared a large part of that himself, aside from the naked partying thing which was largely put down to high spirits and boys will be boys. He was portrayed as fun loving Harry, always ready with a smile and a hug, in contrast to William. The vitriol directed at his wife, and the reporting putting him in a bad light may have been a bit of a shock.
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  #1122  
Old 12-27-2018, 12:10 PM
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We can't tell from a few photos what is going on with members of the Royal family. A whole narrative could be made about Camilla's absence from Eugenie's wedding, the pre-Xmas BP lunch and not being at Sandringham for Christmas for instance, though we know in the last two occasions she was/is just ill.

Harry may have had a head-ache, a toothache, felt very cold, any number of things on that walk at Sandringham. He was talking and smiling to the crowds later after church.

And if Harry was that upset over his supposed new demotion (which isn't one, as has been pointed out the Queen and Charles may live many more years) why did he and William shoot together on Boxing Day?

You would think if he was that upset about his 'new position' Harry and his wife would have left Sandringham as quickly as possible, not hung around with relatives on a shoot and had lunch with the Queen, Prince Philip, Charles and the Cambridges at Wood Farm.

There's no indication either that the Sussexes are upset about Frogmore Cottage, which is only minutes away from Windsor Castle, either. It was the media who made a fuss about Wallis Simpson, mausoleums etc.
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  #1123  
Old 12-27-2018, 12:11 PM
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I think H and W both find it difficult to deal with publicity in general. They would prefer a world where they can turn attention off and on. But it does not work like that.
It took the generation before them a while to figure that out as well. The family tends to decide that hiding out is a suitable answer. Pop out for appearances and hide the rest of the time.
In some ways, it only gets harder when you marry, have children and most want to be protective.
We tend to think this is about THINGS (who has the better house, the bigger income, the prettier jewels) but I have always thought both W and H know that's a small part of happiness. Once you have enough, it's not such an advantage to have more. I think for both of them it is about being relevant, making the world a better place. And I have never thought they envy one another when accomplishing things.
JMO - I tend to believe their sibling relationship is as good as most are and better than many. It does not mean they don't make one another crazy from time to time.

EDIT: and frankly, I honestly worry about both Phillip's and Camilla's health.
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  #1124  
Old 12-27-2018, 12:18 PM
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There has been negative publicity surrounding Meghan going on for over 2 years now! Not only the past 2 months! Have we forgotten that Prince Harry released a statement in November 2016 about media coverage of his then girlfriend? It must be frustrating having to see his wife endure a deliberate smear attack and not be able to do anything about it!

What has been unfortunate is that these 2 couples had to put on a "togetherness" display all because of a "feud" invented by the media that the 4 of them can only grin and bear! And just to show how the tabloids work...the narrative has switched to a "feud" between Meghan and William and a "feud" between William and Harry because they did not interact with each other on Christmas day!
One "feud" has been disproved so other "feuds" have to be invented to keep the clicks going.

And Harry no longer has to tag along with the Cambridges to be popular....he and Meghan have their own popularity based on the massive crowds that they have attracted on tour and in the UK. He and Meghan are a team working together on their own initiatives! The problem seems to be that Harry is no longer a little boy or a third wheel to the Cambridges and some people/media can't accept that.

And based on various Instagram photos, Harry was very much himself when he was talking to the crowds! However, I can well understand if he is unenthusiastic about the media given how he and his wife are being treated.
  #1125  
Old 12-27-2018, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
And if Harry was that upset over his supposed new demotion (which isn't one, as has been pointed out the Queen and Charles may live many more years) why did he and William shoot together on Boxing Day?

You would think if he was that upset about his new position Harry and his wife would have left Sandringham as quickly as possible, not hung around with relatives on a shoot and having lunch with the Queen, Prince Philip, Charles and the Cambridges at Wood Farm.

.
But, Harry hasn't been demoted. I'm really not seeing where that was said.
  #1126  
Old 12-27-2018, 12:26 PM
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I do wonder how things would go if the Sussexes did walk away from it all...
  #1127  
Old 12-27-2018, 12:35 PM
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At what point did Frogmore Cottage become a demotion? I haven't been following the "feud" but last I read it was billed as "The Sussex's chose it because they want to get as far away from the Cambridges as possible!" It will be a large house close to where the Queen spends a huge amount of time, in a place they love very close to London.

No doubt there's always ups and downs re roles in the family for everyone and at times they've been envious of each other's position but you can't tell anything from a few videos.


And whilst it may have been much more of an adjustment than Meghan anticipated I'm sure she knew a lot more about Harry's current and intended future positions before she got married than our speculation ever will.
  #1128  
Old 12-27-2018, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I do wonder how things would go if the Sussexes did walk away from it all...
Yes, yes, I know I'm crossing threads here but wouldn't it be interesting if this were the 2019 British RF scandal that someone predicted in the "What Will Happen in 2019" thread?

Ok, back to regularly scheduled programming now...
  #1129  
Old 12-27-2018, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
But, Harry hasn't been demoted. I'm really not seeing where that was said.
Apparently Harry 'may well have woken up to the disparity of the future positions between himself and William'.

That has apparently come as a complete shock to him after 30 odd years of being aware of it, and has driven the happiness out of his life, as could be seen during the walk at Sandringham as a result, according to some observers.
William is to be future King yet he didn't appear to be particularly joyful on the walk, either. He may well have been feeling the cold also, as well as the constant photographers around. Just like his brother, perhaps!
  #1130  
Old 12-27-2018, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
At what point did Frogmore Cottage become a demotion? I haven't been following the "feud" but last I read it was billed as "The Sussex's chose it because they want to get as far away from the Cambridges as possible!" It will be a large house close to where the Queen spends a huge amount of time, in a place they love very close to London.

No doubt there's always ups and downs re roles in the family for everyone and at times they've been envious of each other's position but you can't tell anything from a few videos.


And whilst it may have been much more of an adjustment than Meghan anticipated I'm sure she knew a lot more about Harry's current and intended future positions before she got married than our speculation ever will.
It's always been interesting to me that Sussexes moving to Windsor, which is about 45 minutes away from KP, is considered running away from Cambridges because they dislike each other. Yet, the Cambridges moved away from Poor Ole Harry years ago to a much further place. What was THAT about?

For those missing the sarcasm, I don't actually think either move was because they don't like each other. I was making a point about the ridiculousness of the "feud". And BTW, the media still hasn't gotten on the same page about who is actually feuding. But given their reporting on whether Harry will shooting on Boxing Day and whether Meghan "gave permission", I doubt it'll ever happen. Perhaps some new sources are in order more than anything else.

Yes. I do think it's noteworthy that Meghan and Harry talked about Commonwealth as much as they did during their engagement interview. It's almost like they knew Harry would be appointed a major Commonwealth role in the next few months. Unlike the rest of us at that time. So I don't think they are as shocked as we are a lot of times. Just saying.
  #1131  
Old 12-27-2018, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
Yes, yes, I know I'm crossing threads here but wouldn't it be interesting if this were the 2019 British RF scandal that someone predicted in the "What Will Happen in 2019" thread?

Ok, back to regularly scheduled programming now...
That would not be a scandal but an absolute tragedy if Harry felt that he had to leave his whole family so that he, his wife and their child could have peace somewhere else/another country.
  #1132  
Old 12-27-2018, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Terri Terri View Post
That would not be a scandal but an absolute tragedy if Harry felt that he had to leave his whole family so that he, his wife and their child could have peace somewhere else/another country.
I don't think anyone is saying he'll ever leave his family, but rather they were talking about his role in the Firm. Either way, unlikely to happen unless something truly atrocious happened.
  #1133  
Old 12-27-2018, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I do wonder how things would go if the Sussexes did walk away from it all...
Badly I think. Harry can't "walk away" from his title or his place in the succession legally though I suppose he could ask to be known as Mr Harry Windsor-Mountbatten. He could abandon public duties, announce he was no longer a member of the "Firm" etc and go do whatever he and Meghan want to do. But he'd still he hounded by the press, as would their kid(s) and he'd still be a member of the family so still pictured showing up at events so the story would always get brought up.

And if Mr Harry Windsor-Mountbatten's name was seen to be opening any doors or getting any favours there would be hell to pay as he would be seen as abandoning his country for a playboy lifestyle etc etc.
  #1134  
Old 12-27-2018, 01:06 PM
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This thread is not about the media coverage surrounding Meghan, nor is it about whether Harry and Meghan will walk away from the BRF. If you wish to discuss the roles/duties of each royal, take it to their respective threads. Now let’s get back on topic.
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  #1135  
Old 12-27-2018, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
We can't tell from a few photos what is going on with members of the Royal family. A whole narrative could be made about Camilla's absence from Eugenie's wedding, the pre-Xmas BP lunch and not being at Sandringham for Christmas for instance, though we know in the last two occasions she was/is just ill.

Harry may have had a head-ache, a toothache, felt very cold, any number of things on that walk at Sandringham. He was talking and smiling to the crowds later after church.

And if Harry was that upset over his supposed new demotion (which isn't one, as has been pointed out the Queen and Charles may live many more years) why did he and William shoot together on Boxing Day?

[SIZE="6"]You would think if he was that upset about his 'new position' Harry and his wife would have left Sandringham as quickly as possible, not hung around with relatives on a shoot and had lunch with the Queen, Prince Philip, Charles and the Cambridges at Wood Farm[/SIZE].

There's no indication either that the Sussexes are upset about Frogmore Cottage, which is only minutes away from Windsor Castle, either. It was the media who made a fuss about Wallis Simpson, mausoleums etc.
It would be a bad look if h & m didn't show up.
  #1136  
Old 12-27-2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
IMO, its next to impossible to analyze a family's dynamics just from a few pictures that were taken at the time of the Christmas morning service. I take the pictures at face value. They're a family going to church. They're somewhat doing a photo op for the public that waits for them every year but they're not scripting things or posing. They're being themselves on Christmas morning.

I think people go overboard trying to analyze these people psychologically from just a few snapshots in time.
I agree. When I see a member of the Royal family in a picture appearing to behave in a way not seen in the past, I really don't think much about it. For all we know, they could have a stomach ache.
  #1137  
Old 12-27-2018, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Apparently Harry 'may well have woken up to the disparity of the future positions between himself and William'.

That has apparently come as a complete shock to him after 30 odd years of being aware of it
That isn't actually what I said, but I can see how it might have come across that way. In fact, I made a point of saying that of course Harry has always known that his role and William's are very different (and has probably been very, very thankful for that!) But there is a difference with knowing something, and really getting a visceral understanding of what that means. To use an example, we of course all know that we are going to get older, and that with age usually comes aches and pains and wrinkles, and so on. We know that, but experiencing it--not being able to do things we formerly enjoyed, looking in the mirror and thinking "Hmm, that's not quite where I remember that part of my body being located"etc.--can still require some readjustments in attitude.

My thoughts about Harry may be off the mark, but he's certainly been through some major changes in life recently, and it wouldn't be surprising if he was having to undergo some adjustments.
  #1138  
Old 12-27-2018, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
It’s sad that the media have been trying to drive a wedge between these couples. Couples that are not only family, but the most senior branch and new face of the Monarchy. They’re not the Royal Fab Four for nothing. These couples will be working together for a very long time. So folks have to stop painting them as dueling couples. They’re a team. They’re also grown people, not kids.
Exactly. The media want another "War of the Wales". The Royal Family do not.
  #1139  
Old 12-27-2018, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by michelle0187 View Post
It would be a bad look if h & m didn't show up.
Harry didn't go to the Boxing Day shoot last year, (and there was naturally comment about that at the time from the media.) They left Sandringham early, and of course there was no Wood Farm lunch then either.
  #1140  
Old 12-27-2018, 02:22 PM
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I think Harry and Meghan “know their place” just fine. That seems to be the ongoing theme with them. Adjustment is happening for everyone as all their lives are shifting and will continue to do so.

We will never really know how these people really feel about the other but I have a hard time seeing such tension and dislike the tabloids are trying to paint. They’re a family with their ups and downs like all families. They just have the spotlight on them to twist it for whatever agenda they creating.
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