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  #81  
Old 11-22-2010, 09:08 PM
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And don't forget that Catherine's grandfather died recently and that they had his funeral to attend in the week prior to the announcement. It wouldn't surprise me if they had intended to make the announcement earlier, but had to put it off because of this.
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  #82  
Old 11-22-2010, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Frideswide View Post
And don't forget that Catherine's grandfather died recently and that they had his funeral to attend in the week prior to the announcement. It wouldn't surprise me if they had intended to make the announcement earlier, but had to put it off because of this.

Oh yes, that was suggested in some reports!
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  #83  
Old 11-23-2010, 06:01 AM
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I really don't either.

What I do imagine happened is that when the report came out that the Queen and Prince Charles were informed only hours before the engagement announcement was just that.. hours before the ANNOUNCEMENT of the engagement to the public was to take place. I would well imagine that William would have consulted the Queen prior to even proposing to Kate in Kenya and getting her consent first. Also, I would think he would have talked to both Charles and Camilla and feel them out about how they felt about him using his mother's ring for proposing. And the ring... He stated that he was carrying it around with him for 3 weeks in Africa. Do we really believe that until then he kept it in his underwear drawer somewhere? This was well planned out I think before he even proposed.

I honestly think William is quite close with both his grandmother and Charles, Camilla and closest of all to Harry. I would be willing to bet anything that all of them knew of William's intentions before he even popped the question.
I agree with you. I suspect this had all been discussed and agreed in detail, just the timing of the announcement had not been specifically agreed in advance.
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  #84  
Old 11-23-2010, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I am actually coming to the opinion that he doesn't care about his father at all. He expects his father to pay for things but really doesn't care about his father's feelings at all. I used to think they were close and loving but now I don't. I can't say what has changed my opinion but I simply don't think William has any feelings for his father or his father's family, with the possible exception of the Queen but even she doesn't seem to be respected by him any more. Just feelings I know but the very fact that he only spoke to them hours before the announcement speaks volumes about his attitude.
I love this post, i'm glad someone shares my thoughts.
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Old 11-23-2010, 05:58 PM
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I am actually questioning the veracity of that claim that William phoned his father and grandmother the day of the announcement to ask permission.

So I ask this question for those who are familiar with the role of the Privy Council.

According to Hello magazine (yes, I am considering the source) which has an article with lists the events that would unfold if Prince William makes a Christmas proposal. The article states that weeks before the announcement is made public, the Queen will convene a meeting of the Privy Council to give her formal approval to the marriage under the 1772 Royal Marriages Act, which requires the soveriegn's consent. According to the article, that when Charles was preparing to marry Diana, he asked the Queen's permission three weeks earlier, and than the Earl Spencer was asked his permission.

So, my question is...is this the case? So the possiblity exists that members of the Privy Council already knew that it was going to happen, and possiblity William called to tell them about it that day or so.

Is anyone familiar with the merits of the Council. So the Queen, DoE, Phillip, Anne and Edward (I think that is everyone) might have already knew before the announcement was made.
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  #86  
Old 11-23-2010, 06:16 PM
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When the Queen gives the formal permission via the Privy Council isn't important so long as it is done before the wedding. At Peter's wedding it was a couple of weeks before the wedding and not before the engagement.

With William keeping things close to his chest and knowing that decisions of the Privy Council are made public immediately there is no way the members of the Privy Council were informed before the engagement announcement.

The Queen hasn't yet actually given her formal consent.
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  #87  
Old 11-23-2010, 11:47 PM
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When Charles & Diana were engaged, the Privy Counsel did not give their consent until after the announcement of the engagement. (They released picture of Charles & Diana posing with the Queen)

Same for Charles & Camilia - approval came after the engagement.

I can`t imagine that the Privy Counsil would not approve of a marriage that the Queen approved of.
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  #88  
Old 11-24-2010, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I am actually coming to the opinion that he doesn't care about his father at all. He expects his father to pay for things but really doesn't care about his father's feelings at all. I used to think they were close and loving but now I don't. I can't say what has changed my opinion but I simply don't think William has any feelings for his father or his father's family, with the possible exception of the Queen but even she doesn't seem to be respected by him any more. Just feelings I know but the very fact that he only spoke to them hours before the announcement speaks volumes about his attitude.
Are you intimating that William has been "faking it" with his father in public? You know, Dad presenting him his wings, shared joy of fellow pilots, etc. All the time despising his father and all of his father's family, and now he is taking the opportunity to "stick it to them", so to speak?
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  #89  
Old 11-24-2010, 04:21 AM
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Are you intimating that William has been "faking it" with his father in public? You know, Dad presenting him his wings, shared joy of fellow pilots, etc. All the time despising his father and all of his father's family, and now he is taking the opportunity to "stick it to them", so to speak?

I am saying that they aren't that close anymore. I do think that deep down he does despise his father and his father's family for the way they treated Diana. Except on official duties these days he doesn't seem to spend any time with them but holidays with the Middletons. When was the last time he spent any time with his father's family, other than on those official photo occasions like Trooping the Colour.

I think they tried to be close after Diana died but since he meet the Middletons he has distanced himself from his father's side of his family.

He reminds me of a rhyme my mother taught me as a girl:

A son is a son until he takes a wife
A daughter is a daugher, a daughter for life.


I used to think he was close to his father but now I don't get that feeling anymore. I do think that Charles would like to be closer to his sons but they don't want to be with him - maybe it is Camilla, maybe it is they are growing older, maybe it is Diana's influence, maybe they have just nothing in common, but it is a feeling. As I said in my original post I can't say why I feel this way I just do. Six months ago I didn't but now I do.
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  #90  
Old 11-24-2010, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
When was the last time he spent any time with his father's family, other than on those official photo occasions like Trooping the Colour.

As you say, a feeling is a feeling.

However, we do not have details of the private schedules of senior members of the royal family, so will not know who spends how much time with whom.
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  #91  
Old 12-02-2010, 09:04 PM
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I thought Prince William was really fond of the Queen and vica versa and real close to both grandparents?
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  #92  
Old 12-03-2010, 03:24 AM
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Are you joking me? First off can anyone clarify for me doesn't the Royal Family usually take the bill for the weddings anyways? If so I can't see how that proves William expects his father to pay for everything do we know if maybe his father offered? Secondly he is a 28 year old man...do you really expect to see him with his father that often? Also the Middletons do not have daily engagements to attend to hence why they probably saw William more often. We have no clue if maybe he and his father do other things in private. Didn't Charles get hurt a few years back maybe he prefers to not go skiing anymore to prevent further injury maybe he and his sons have thought of something better they could do in their private life. Honestly we don't know what goes on behind closed doors all we see is what they and/or the press want us to see so we really cannot pass judgments. I mean the same thing applied years ago when Diana was alive we were led to believe Charles didn't spend any time with his children when really he did...just in private as he much preferred in comparison with Diana.
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  #93  
Old 12-30-2010, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
What I do imagine happened is that when the report came out that the Queen and Prince Charles were informed only hours before the engagement announcement was just that.. hours before the ANNOUNCEMENT of the engagement to the public was to take place. I would well imagine that William would have consulted the Queen prior to even proposing to Kate in Kenya and getting her consent first. Also, I would think he would have talked to both Charles and Camilla and feel them out about how they felt about him using his mother's ring for proposing. And the ring... He stated that he was carrying it around with him for 3 weeks in Africa. Do we really believe that until then he kept it in his underwear drawer somewhere? This was well planned out I think before he even proposed.

I honestly think William is quite close with both his grandmother and Charles, Camilla and closest of all to Harry. I would be willing to bet anything that all of them knew of William's intentions before he even popped the question.
This is what I thought, too. I can't imagine something as big as this for the family hasn't been discussed a lot in the immediate family. One can hear him saying - 'Well, Dad, Grandmother, I'm going to ask her this week' - and the response comes back - 'Sounds good, Son, just be sure to call to say how it went. Let us know when the announcement will be going out'.

As for the ring, like mentioned, William would have had to get Diana's ring from the Queen's vault or wherever it was kept. He couldn't do that without 'telling'. Dates for the wedding - all the logistics - the sheer scale of the preparations demand prior discussion. They were secretly engaged anyway, I read, since 2007. I read that somewhere, that William had told Catherine in 2007 that she was 'the one' but he wasn't ready for marriage and he needed her to wait and was she willing and she said okay she would wait.

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Originally Posted by ghost_night554 View Post
Are you joking me? First off can anyone clarify for me doesn't the Royal Family usually take the bill for the weddings anyways? If so I can't see how that proves William expects his father to pay for everything do we know if maybe his father offered? Secondly he is a 28 year old man...do you really expect to see him with his father that often? Also the Middletons do not have daily engagements to attend to hence why they probably saw William more often. We have no clue if maybe he and his father do other things in private. Didn't Charles get hurt a few years back maybe he prefers to not go skiing anymore to prevent further injury maybe he and his sons have thought of something better they could do in their private life. Honestly we don't know what goes on behind closed doors all we see is what they and/or the press want us to see so we really cannot pass judgments. I mean the same thing applied years ago when Diana was alive we were led to believe Charles didn't spend any time with his children when really he did...just in private as he much preferred in comparison with Diana.
Totally agree. William is spreading his wings. (No pun!) If there is any lesson to be learned about Charles from the Diana years is that Charles does not 'show' his private life to the public. There is simply no way to know what is happening.

However, its an arresting thought that Iluvbertie brings up that stimulates scenarios. Its going to be interesting - a different world now. William is marrying someone from outside the aristocracy. Catherine has been living at her family's house and William would have been there a lot. All the evidence is that William gets along very well with his soon-to-be In-Laws, even calls Mr Middleton 'Dad'. William is going to have his own life - as he already has - and apparently with more distance from the rythmns of the Queen's family. Catherine says that she is very close to her family, they are very important to her - so in this instance - the woman will be bringing the Royal into her family more strongly than the Royal is setting the agenda with his family. A new world - a definite shift in the 'Royal Life'.
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  #94  
Old 12-30-2010, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I do think that deep down he does despise his father and his father's family for the way they treated Diana.
Why do you think he depises his father? Very strong word. Almost alarming. Your feeling would be stimulated by some event or facts that convey the impression - what are they?

Quote:
I think they tried to be close after Diana died but since he meet the Middletons he has distanced himself from his father's side of his family.
I have always felt that it was likely that William was his mother's son. In the pictures and the films one can see that Harry - younger, of course - was attached to his father. I am thinking of a video I saw of Charles and Diana with their sons playing, and Harry at 2 years of age kept running to his father, to the extent of leaving his mother's arms to be with 'Poppa'. It was very sweet. (I have always felt that Diana claiming that Charles made rude comments about Harry at his birth was her way of driving a wedge between father and son at some future time when Harry would inevitably hear what she claimed Charles had said).

Quote:
I do think that Charles would like to be closer to his sons but they don't want to be with him - maybe it is Camilla, maybe it is they are growing older, maybe it is Diana's influence, maybe they have just nothing in common, but it is a feeling. As I said in my original post I can't say why I feel this way I just do. Six months ago I didn't but now I do.
A lot of assumptions in this - Charles wanting to be closer, how do you 'know' that? They may be plenty close as it is. How do we know? Why would you think they don't want to be with him? These two young men need to be separating from Charles and striking out - its going to look very different because the girls these boys are marrying (I think I know who Harry is going to marry) have strong home lives and family ties that will change how the Royal Family socializes. I'm very curious where this all comes from, Iluvbertie. Its so startling - do you think that Catherine has taken William over, the way wives sometimes can? Is that it? Might not be far off there - especially with Wiliiam and what he's looking for. After all, he didn't venture far or wander extensively. He may be 28 but its not been with a lot of experience. interesting.
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  #95  
Old 12-30-2010, 07:56 AM
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Princess Michael of Kent and the members of the royal family

I read once that many members of British Royal Family can't stand Princess Michael.Once she said in an interview"There is always anyone who should be guilty",making a point on her foreign origin.
From other side she made inappropriate comments on Kate Middleton before the engagement.Otherwise she seems to be an easy-going person.
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:07 PM
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I believe she rather made this comment in regard to the British press than to the royal family. I'm not sure how their relationships are nowadays, but back in the 80s, Marie-Christine was far from being popular among the family. Apparently she snubbed the Queen and Prince Charles several times. A bad relationship she had with Lord Linley for sure, he was mocking her a few times and it had to do with the fact that his mother Margaret didn't like MC either. Her relationship with Diana had been friendly in the last years of her life, from what I know she's even on friendly terms with Sarah Ferguson nowadays.

I, for one, have always wondered how the relationship between her and Prince Philip may be. She definitely had/has her problems with the Windsors but seemed quite close to the Mountbattens (not only to Lord Mountbatten, the Michael Kents and their children spent the holidays with Norton and Penny [Lord and Lady Romsey], too).
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:06 PM
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I understand what IluvBertie is saying. I've had the sense of a growing distance between Charles and his sons, as well. No doubt, it's a common enough development and intimates nothing out of the ordinary. After all, he's a young man who's lived away from home for many years and has enjoyed a level of personal freedom which even his father didn't enjoy.

On the other hand, there's the opinion of ITV's royal correspondent, James Whittaker. On the night of the engagement, he appeared on television in Australia on a program about William and Catherine. After attacking Catherine and her family as not being 'good enough' and stating that William's friends mock Catherine and her family, and that the Queen Mother would have been 'appalled' by the engagement, he claimed that it was common knowledge that William and Harry simply cannot stand the Duchess of Cornwall and tolerate her merely on their father's behalf and that they only make favourable comments about her when asked specifically to do so to quell rumours. Because of the Duchess, he continued, the brothers spend as little time as possible around their father these days. He was very blunt about it, claiming that it was 'known by all' in royal circles. If he's correct, it would explain any loosening of ties between Charles and his sons and makes William's strong and growing attachment to Catherine's family more understandable.

Whittaker also made the point that Catherine's parents were as nothing in the scheme of things and said that they'd learn this, quickly enough. Even at the wedding, he continued, they'll be less important than nearly everyone else there. Not too many of Catherine's family and friends will be present, he said, as they just won't be welcome. Whether that is the intention or not, I recall William's specific words that his in-laws will be very much a part of his life and not pushed aside (as Mark Phillips' family claims that they were, and Mrs Shand-Kydd, too). I have the distinct impression that William will not permit himself and his wife to be bullied by courtiers as were his mother and the Duchess of York.

It's difficult to know how much of this is true, though Whittaker is in a position to glean most of the gossip, and claims that he only reports what can be proved, and, after all, he was the journalist who 'discovered' and broke the news about Diana's bulimia, to the palace's dismay and to Diana's forever disadvantage.
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:27 PM
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Thank you for sharing that story Polly.

Frankly, I think that William and Harry did at first just accept Camilla because it made their father happy but over time they have begun to care for her and genuinely like her, but are they besties? Probably not but do they need to be? I didn't have a relationship with my stepmother but as long as she made my father happy than I was happy.

I love it how it all of sudden its all on William on why he is snubbing and being disrespectful to his father because of Diana. This is the man (Charles) who stepped in when Diana died and raised his children. Why would William dislike him? Because the tabloids say he called Charles the day before the engagement was announced? You don't think they talked about it AT ALL before the formal announcement was made?

I noticed something while looking at the old Christmas cards. I really hate to bring it up because really I don't think is the case. But did any notice that once Charles married Camilla, his children were no longer a part of his Christmas card? One could argue that once he married his precious Camilla his kids were no longer a priority.

NOW I am going to go on the record to say, that I don't believe that is the case. I believe William and Harry are just as important to Charles (and vice versa) on the day he married he married Camilla as the day they were born.

My point in opening this can of worms (and yes it is a can) is to show how one can use whatever is available in this internet media to prove a point.

For the record, I believe that Charles has a good relationship with William and Harry. And there is no hidden agenda or reasons on why his children no longer appear on his Christmas card. Tons of grown children don't appear on their parents Christmas cards once they leave the nest.

A lot of the reporting on BRF reminds me of yellow journalism. I found this in the excerpt about William Randolph Hearst on wikipedia where it was suggested that Hearst "routinely invented sensational stories, faked interviews, ran phony pictures and distorted real events."

Reporting of the BRF reminds me of this. And I think that we (the general public) choose to pick and believe what we want based on who we like and don't like. I mean does anyone remember the stories that Camilla was hit with bread when she went to the local market once the story came out when Charles and Diana were married. And it turns out that the story was not true????

Its very clear thru the actions and diaries that the Queen Mother and the Duchess of Windsor didn't care for each other. We have seen nothing like that (even the royal sources) with William and his father.

Just something to think about.
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Old 12-31-2010, 02:38 PM
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Yes, you're right, Zonk. I always consider the source of any story or gossip and one newspaper, in particular, which publishes absurd stories about the BRF, is disgraceful in its pettiness and exaggerations. And so many believe what they read in it, to my utter amazement.

My view about Charles and his relationship with his sons is that few fathers, no matter how much they were under the influence of their wives, would allow a breakdown in their relationship with their children. There is absolutely no evidence that Charles hasn't been and continues to be a supportive father. I don't know what the boys feel about their stepmother, but I do believe that young men in the twenties (one nearly 30) develop separate and independent lives and that this is normal and natural. I can't see that this is in any way remarkable.

As for William's not telling his father and grandparents that he was intending to propose to Catherine, that's arrant nonsense. His future role in the life of the nation would alone have meant that every aspect of his marriage would have been considered: they may not have known that he was going to propose on any specific day, but that's quite another matter.

I was concerned about the Whittaker program, not least because nobody questioned him and his assertions were accepted at face value. An ITV program would have been seen by many, and whereas he's entitled to his views and opinions, responsible reporting also demands a balanced view. These are real people about whom these tales and journalistic flights of fancy are spread, and it irritates me that they're so frequently believed.
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Old 12-31-2010, 11:22 PM
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As for William's not telling his father and grandparents that he was intending to propose to Catherine, that's arrant nonsense. His future role in the life of the nation would alone have meant that every aspect of his marriage would have been considered: they may not have known that he was going to propose on any specific day, but that's quite another matter.
I think I have already pointed out that the Queen and Charles knew all about the announcement before it happened as there is no way that the arrangements for the photo shoot, obviously kept quiet by the media until the moment, would have gotten through the front, side or back gate of the palace environs without members of the Queen and Charles staff being aware of such plans. And arranging a photo call in Granny's house without asking first is just plain rude! OKay, let's face it, they wouldn't have got in the door unless Granny and charles had given prior approval.

Personally I think it is sick the way the Mail is trying to intimate that suddenly William has woken from a long sleep and decided that he loathes his Father, dispises his Stepmother, merely tolerates his Grandparents and is starting to take up his late mother's cudgels against the rest of the BRF, set up his very own private Court and run his father and stepmother out of the running for the throne and show his grandmother is past it. Sick, sick, sick!

This year is supposed to be the finishing touch to his new adult life, with confidence, self-respect and a real job. The cherry on top is his forthcoming marriage to Catherine, and as such should be a time of joy and expectation. Instead it is being turned into some ghastly travesty of malice in the palace. A vicious soap opera piting various members of the BRF against each other, dramatising a distorted history and ensuring a miserable future.
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