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  #601  
Old 05-14-2018, 08:43 PM
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Is there another thread to continue this discussion since the press portrayal of William & Harry is OT for it? The discussion could be interesting but not in this thread as the mod already asked to get back on topic.
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  #602  
Old 05-14-2018, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
Is there another thread to continue this discussion since the press portrayal of William & Harry is OT for it? The discussion could be interesting but not in this thread as the mod already asked to get back on topic.

A more on topic thread would probably be The Royal Family and the Media.
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  #603  
Old 05-15-2018, 11:46 AM
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I wonder how The Princess Margaret would react to Meghan Markle. I really, really mean it.
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  #604  
Old 05-15-2018, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Westfield Bakery View Post
I wonder how The Princess Margaret would react to Meghan Markle. I really, really mean it.
I really, really don't think we have any basis to project what a person would think unless we conducted a seance using crystal balls, incense, a few tarot cards and actually reached out to Margaret in the Great Beyond.
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  #605  
Old 05-16-2018, 12:55 AM
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I don't think it would take a crystal ball to guess that Margaret would not take to Meghan....
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  #606  
Old 05-16-2018, 01:02 AM
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On the other hand Margaret quite liked actors, singers, comedians and people in show business generally. Margaret enjoyed people with entertaining personalities, didn't like dullness. She almost certainly wouldn't like the awful Markle relatives but she may have liked Meghan personally.
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  #607  
Old 05-16-2018, 01:45 AM
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I think she'd find her amusing as a friend... but not as a member of the RF..

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Except that with Albert Victor and George, or Edward VIII and George VI, it was actually the other way around, i.e. the older brother bad and the younger good. And, with William and Harry, I have never seen any such comparisons.
Harry is portrayed a bit as the "naughty one" if not actively bad.. but now that he's getting married and settling down that will probably ebb. But generally th ones portrayed as the "bad boys" or girls usually were unlikable and behaved badly. Margaret was always selfish and spoiled..[...].. Albert Victor was - well barely fit to be King whereas hs brothe was much more sutiable and it was the same with Ed VIII and George VI...
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  #608  
Old 05-17-2018, 03:44 PM
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Personally, I don't see it as an issue not inviting a distant cousin. I certainly don't see it as an indication of lack of respect for the Royal Family as an institution. Freddie Windsor is in no way a close member of either the blood family of the groom, or the working members of the BRF.

Its pretty clear W&H are not really close to Freddie. William and Harry did not even attend the wedding of Freddie Windsor a few years ago at Hampton Court.
Not attending a wedding almost 9 years ago doesn't mean that they aren't close(r) nowadays. Especially, since William & Catherine and Harry now all live at Kensington Palace and George and Maud could be best friends or play mates as they spend a lot of time in the same classroom and parents tend to befriend at least some of their children's friends, and in this case their son's classmate's parent is also a second cousin-once-removed. We at least know for sure that William did reach out to them after Sophie's accident.
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  #609  
Old 05-17-2018, 03:54 PM
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Not attending a wedding almost 9 years ago doesn't mean that they aren't close(r) nowadays. Especially, since William & Catherine and Harry now all live at Kensington Palace and George and Maud could be best friends or play mates as they spend a lot of time in the same classroom and parents tend to befriend at least some of their children's friends, and in this case their son's classmate's parent is also a second cousin-once-removed. We at least know for sure that William did reach out to them after Sophie's accident.
Correct! William even referred to Sophie as 'my cousin' when he phoned the hospital asking about her and Charles intervened directly to help when she was ill so there is obviously a level of closeness between these family members. I watched the Queen's birthday concert a few weeks ago on TV and saw Freddie and Sophie there along with the rest of the extended family and was actually thinking how I was looking forward to the wedding and seeing them all at that too. I never thought for a minute they wouldn't be there.
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  #610  
Old 05-17-2018, 03:59 PM
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Just because William is close with certain extended members of the family doesn't mean Harry is. They are two different individuals.
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  #611  
Old 05-17-2018, 04:23 PM
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Just because William is close with certain extended members of the family doesn't mean Harry is. They are two different individuals.
Completely true. However, we don't really know whether Harry knows Frederick and Gabriella well or that they are just some of the many family members he meets twice a year and doesn't interact with in-between. If some of the second(-once-removed) cousins that are not senior royals are invited and others aren't that would be an indication that he might be closer to those than to others. If all are invited, we still don't have a clue and if no one is invited we still don't know whether they were just treated equally or that he truly has no personal relationship with any of them.
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  #612  
Old 05-17-2018, 04:30 PM
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Completely true. However, we don't really know whether Harry knows Frederick and Gabriella well or that they are just some of the many family members he meets twice a year and doesn't interact with in-between. If some of the second(-once-removed) cousins that are not senior royals are invited and others aren't that would be an indication that he might be closer to those than to others. If all are invited, we still don't have a clue and if no one is invited we still don't know whether they were just treated equally or that he truly has no personal relationship with any of them.

My understanding from the press reports is that none were invited, which, given the circumstances, is the proper thing to do. If he had invited some of his third cousins, but not the others, that would have created a sense of discomfort in the family.

I still wonder, however, if second cousins like the Chatto boys will be invited. BTW, Harry is technically, I think, a second cousin once removed to Lord Frederick or Lady Gabriella, and a third cousin for example to Lady Amelia or Lady Marina. So the degrees of kinship are not exactly the same.
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  #613  
Old 05-22-2018, 09:15 PM
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1930’s - 1950

When Elizabeth was a princess and many of Queen Victoria’s daughters and granddaughters were alive, so you think they spent time with her? And told her stories of when they were little girls? Other than her father’s brothers, I want to know if the other family members made an impression of any sort.
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  #614  
Old 05-22-2018, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by LeDerius View Post
When Elizabeth was a princess and many of Queen Victoria’s daughters and granddaughters were alive, so you think they spent time with her? And told her stories of when they were little girls? Other than her father’s brothers, I want to know if the other family members made an impression of any sort.
I know they must have spent time with Princess Louise, Duchess of Argyll. After she became too unfit too move around and leave Kensington Palace, they called it "Auntie Palace".
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  #615  
Old 05-22-2018, 10:00 PM
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My understanding from the press reports is that none were invited, which, given the circumstances, is the proper thing to do. If he had invited some of his third cousins, but not the others, that would have created a sense of discomfort in the family.

I still wonder, however, if second cousins like the Chatto boys will be invited. BTW, Harry is technically, I think, a second cousin once removed to Lord Frederick or Lady Gabriella, and a third cousin for example to Lady Amelia or Lady Marina. So the degrees of kinship are not exactly the same.

This is after the wedding and we all know that the Chatto boys attended. I had no doubt they would be in attendance. Lady Sarah is Harry's godmother and I doubt he would offend her by not inviting her children. Also, the children of the late Princess Margaret are obviously closer to Harry (and by extension Wiliam) than the children and grandchildren of the Kents and Gloucester. Personally, I was a bit surprised that we didn't see Helen, James O., Nicholas, Rose, Davina, etc. Wasn't a bit surprised by the absence of Marina and Amelia Windsor.

For Eugenie's wedding we will at least see her godfather, James Oglivy with his family.
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  #616  
Old 05-22-2018, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by LeDerius View Post
When Elizabeth was a princess and many of Queen Victoria’s daughters and granddaughters were alive, so you think they spent time with her? And told her stories of when they were little girls? Other than her father’s brothers, I want to know if the other family members made an impression of any sort.
I don't think that any of Victoria's daughters would have been around, most of them were long gone by the time Elizabeth was old enough to interact with them, Beatrice being the possible exception. Helena and Louise were both difficult women who were not well, so doubtful that Lilibet would have been around them much. Alice and the Princess Royal were long passed when Elizabeth was born.

Of Victoria's many granddaughters I think a young Elizabeth might have been close with Victoria Mountbatten, Alice Athlone, and Marie Louise of Schleswig-Holstein, all of whom were quite the characters and beloved by the family young and old. They all have individual biographies out there, I would recommend picking any of them up, their stories are fascinating imo.
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  #617  
Old 05-23-2018, 12:10 AM
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I don't think that any of Victoria's daughters would have been around, most of them were long gone by the time Elizabeth was old enough to interact with them, Beatrice being the possible exception.

.
Princess Beatrice died in 1944 - and 18-year-old Princess Elizabeth attended the funeral. I don't know how close they would have been, but Beatrice may have been one of those elderly "great aunts" (or in this case, great-great aunt!) that so many of us remember.
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  #618  
Old 05-23-2018, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Missy- View Post
I don't think that any of Victoria's daughters would have been around, most of them were long gone by the time Elizabeth was old enough to interact with them, Beatrice being the possible exception. Helena and Louise were both difficult women who were not well, so doubtful that Lilibet would have been around them much. Alice and the Princess Royal were long passed when Elizabeth was born.

Of Victoria's many granddaughters I think a young Elizabeth might have been close with Victoria Mountbatten, Alice Athlone, and Marie Louise of Schleswig-Holstein, all of whom were quite the characters and beloved by the family young and old. They all have individual biographies out there, I would recommend picking any of them up, their stories are fascinating imo.
Princess Helena died in 1923, three years before Queen Elizabeth was born. Louise died in 1939 when Elizabeth was 13. Beatrice survived until 1945 but because of World War II I'm not sure how much contact she and Elizabeth had from 1939-45 when Elizabeth lived at Windsor Castle and Beatrice was sent to Brantridge Park, home of the Earl and Countess of Athlone.

I think you're right, Elizabeth probably had much more contact with Princess Alice (who survived until 1980 and was also married to the Queen's great-uncle) and Princess Marie Louise (died 1957).

And you're absolutely right about Victoria Milford Haven [Mountbatten]. She lived at Windsor Castle with Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret during the war and got to know them very well. This is what she wrote to a friend:

"We take our meals together otherwise I am free to do what I like. Princess Elizabeth does host at meals, when her parents are away - when they are here we generally lunch amongst ourselves only. These young girls are charmingly brought up, not shy & quite natural. The younger does not come to dinner as a rule yet...The elder is more attractive to me."

She talked to Elizabeth about her family and their history. "Princess Elizabeth, in particular, had a special interest in the family and loved listening to all of Victoria's stories."

Source: Ilana D. Miller, The Four Graces: Queen Victoria's Hessian Granddaughters (Europhistory.com, 2011), p. 206.
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  #619  
Old 05-25-2018, 02:50 PM
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I did notice at the Wedding while Harry and William were sitting down waiting for Meghan and the ceremony to start James, Viscount Severn had leaned over and said something to Harry, who answered back and smiled.

Obviously reading a lot into it but it is nice to see and shows that there clearly is some closeness that James feels familiar and comfortable enough with Harry to be able to do that at the wedding.

I like James am the youngest of my cousins and have a similar age gap and I have some cousins who have made the effort to try and connect with me as well as the cousins closer in age and others who don't.

@ 1:46:40
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  #620  
Old 06-02-2018, 01:00 PM
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I was told , therefore read source uncertain. that James was not actually allowed to attend the wedding. 10 was considered too young to be there and he was actually very upset about it as well the page boys are younger, so he asked Harry specially if he could come. Maybe he was just pointing out that here he was and he was on his best behavior.
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