Questions About Titles - Page 22

**Elspeth** · #**421** 09-02-2007, 12:22 PM

I think a statement was issued, but if you look at the list of Letters Patent, there isn't one granting Alice the status of a Princess in her own right. However, widows of princes remain HRH after their husband's death so Alice would have been HRH the Dowager Duchess of Gloucester without the Queen's agreement for her to use HRH Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester.

branchg · #**422** 09-02-2007, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalProtocol

Was she really a Princess of The UK? Is a Princess of the UK not a Princess of The Blood Royal? Was Alice not still a commoner married to a Prince of The Blood Royal and thus entitled to use her husband's title by virture of the marriage? Her Majesty would surely have had to issue letters patent or at the very least a statement to give Alice any rights of a Princess of the UK.

Upon marriage to HRH The Prince Henry, Lady Alice became HRH The Princess Henry as the wife of a son of the Sovereign, the same as any woman who marries a prince of the UK. He was created The Duke of Gloucester by George V, so his wife was styled as HRH The Duchess of Gloucester.

A princess can hold the rank and title by birth or marriage. Lady Alice was born the daughter of a Duke, so she was never a commoner. Her rank and title after her marriage was superior to her own and she retained it for her lifetime as a widow.

wbenson · #**423** 09-03-2007, 04:18 AM

It seems that in recent times, titles are as much by common use and agreement than by fixed rules and protocol. From Princess Alice to Lady Louise to the Duchess of Cornwall...

branchg · #**424** 09-03-2007, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbenson

It seems that in recent times, titles are as much by common use and agreement than by fixed rules and protocol. From Princess Alice to Lady Louise to the Duchess of Cornwall...

Not really. Titles differ from styles, which can be agreed upon by the fount of honour without issuing letters patent or a royal warrant.

Alice remained a princess of the UK through marriage as a widow, so granting her the style of Princess Alice was consistent with her rank and title. Louise is the daughter of an Earl, in addition to being a princess of the UK, and Camilla is Duchess of Cornwall as the wife of the Duke of Cornwall.

RoyalProtocol · #**425** 10-21-2007, 10:59 AM

Another Question on Titles, this may have been discussed previously but I can't find it and was wondering is HM The Queen somewhere way down her long list of titles, The Princess Philip, Duchess of Edinburgh, Countess of Merioneth, Baroness Greenwich? Or does here Queen status rule all these invalid??

wbenson · #**426** 10-21-2007, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalProtocol

Another Question on Titles, this may have been discussed previously but I can't find it and was wondering is HM The Queen somewhere way down her long list of titles, The Princess Philip, Duchess of Edinburgh, Countess of Merioneth, Baroness Greenwich? Or does here Queen status rule all these invalid??

It's a somewhat grey area. Since those are all titles granted by the crown, it would be impossible for her to hold them. But then, if she were to abdicate, she would immediately hold them. It's more like they're a dress that she owns, but is the wrong size for her while she's the Queen, so she has to keep them in a closet somewhere.

zembla · #**427** 10-21-2007, 07:44 PM

This is a random question but just out of curiosity...if Charles had a son or daughter from another relaitonship besides Diana, like a love child LOL. Would they be given some kind of title? Or would that be looked down upon...

Vanishing Lady · #**428** 10-21-2007, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zembla

This is a random question but just out of curiosity...if Charles had a son or daughter from another relaitonship besides Diana, like a love child LOL. Would they be given some kind of title? Or would that be looked down upon...

I'm thinking that whether the child has a title would be at the discretion of Her Majesty. I don't think she'd countenance it, but that's my impression of her.

I wonder if the child would have such an obvious surname as maybe...FitzMountbatten, FitzCharles, FitzCornwall; thinking of the Hanoverians.

AnthonyG · #**429** 10-21-2007, 08:36 PM

Has anyone heard about an alledged Contessa that goes as Contessa Fraggianni, who, one minute says she is Honorary and the next she is a Real contessa and is somehow related directly to Queen Elizabeth and Juan Carlos. Can anyone fill me in on this?

selrahc4 · #**430** 10-22-2007, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalProtocol

Another Question on Titles, this may have been discussed previously but I can't find it and was wondering is HM The Queen somewhere way down her long list of titles, The Princess Philip, Duchess of Edinburgh, Countess of Merioneth, Baroness Greenwich? Or does here Queen status rule all these invalid??

The Edinburgh, Merioneth, and Greenwich titles aren't the Queen's titles; they are her husband's and were granted to him. In other words she is not Duchess of Edinbugh in her own right, but IS Duchess of Edinburgh only by way of being the wife of the Duke of Edinburgh. Since she has a higher (to put it mildly) title in her own right, though, she doesn't need to go by any of the ones you listed.

wbenson · #**431** 10-22-2007, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zembla

This is a random question but just out of curiosity...if Charles had a son or daughter from another relaitonship besides Diana, like a love child LOL. Would they be given some kind of title? Or would that be looked down upon...

They wouldn't automatically have any rank. They could theoretically be given a title, but that would depend on the mood of the day.

RoyalProtocol · #**432** 10-22-2007, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by selrahc4

The Edinburgh, Merioneth, and Greenwich titles aren't the Queen's titles; they are her husband's and were granted to him. In other words she is not Duchess of Edinbugh in her own right, but IS Duchess of Edinburgh only by way of being the wife of the Duke of Edinburgh. Since she has a higher (to put it mildly) title in her own right, though, she doesn't need to go by any of the ones you listed.

I understand she doesn't own these titles herself and she never needs to use them but I was wondeing if she does have them somewhere? After all before her marriage she was HRH The Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh.

Thanks for the other answers by the way.

selrahc4 · #**433** 10-22-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyalProtocol

I understand she doesn't own these titles herself and she never needs to use them but I was wondeing if she does have them somewhere? After all before her marriage she was HRH The Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh.

Thanks for the other answers by the way.

Yes, she still has those titles. I'll let her official website explain:
http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/page1925.asp

(my bolding)

Quote:

Lieutenant Philip Mountbatten, RN, as he had been known in the marriage announcement, became a Royal Highness, and, in ascending order, Baron Greenwich, Earl of Merioneth and Duke of Edinburgh. His future wife would be known as Her Royal Highness The Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh. The couple were often referred to as the Edinburghs up to the death of King George VI in February 1952.
The Queen still holds the title, but it is no longer used.

Despodov · #**434** 10-22-2007, 05:00 PM

Hello,
What is the title of female royal, who is married of male royal, who is and a heir apparent of the thoren, but he died and their child now is the heir?

chrissy57 · #**435** 10-22-2007, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Despodov

Hello,
What is the title of female royal, who is married of male royal, who is and a heir apparent of the thoren, but he died and their child now is the heir?

The best answer to that would be George III's mother who was in exactly that position.

Her title, after the death of her husband, Frederick Prince of Wales, was Dowager Princess of Wales.

George III inherited his father's title of Duke of Edinburgh and was created Prince of Wales (NB he was never Duke of Cornwall as he wasn't the eldest son of the monarch).

The wife of the heir to the throne, in the situation you described, would be titled in the same way as any other wife of a peer of the realm.

Kat · #**436** 10-23-2007, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

Her Majesty , Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Saxe-Coburg-Gotha-Schweslig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg , Queen of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland and Empress of India, Queen of Canada, Queen of Australia, Queen of New Zealand, Queen of Jamaica, Queen of Barbados, Queen of the Bahamas, Queen of Grenada, Queen of Papua New Guinea, Queen of the Solomon Islands, Queen of Tuvalu, Queen of St. Lucia, Queen of St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Queen of Antigua and Barbuda, Queen of St. Kitts and Nevis & Queen of Belize, Queen of Ghana, Queen of Nigeria, Queen of Sierra Leone, Queen of Tanganyika, Queen of Uganda, Queen of Kenya, Queen of Malawi, Queen of Mauritius, Queen of South Africa, Queen of The Gambia, Queen of Rodhesia, Queen of Pakistan, Queen of Ceylon, Queen of Trinidad and Tobago, Queen of Guyana, ...

Just so you know, she is no longer Queen of Trinidad and Tobago. She gave that title up in 1976 (I think it was).

Sister Morphine · #**437** 10-23-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrissy57

The best answer to that would be George III's mother who was in exactly that position.

Her title, after the death of her husband, Frederick Prince of Wales, was Dowager Princess of Wales.

George III inherited his father's title of Duke of Edinburgh and was created Prince of Wales (NB he was never Duke of Cornwall as he wasn't the eldest son of the monarch).

The wife of the heir to the throne, in the situation you described, would be titled in the same way as any other wife of a peer of the realm.

This also would have been Catherine of Aragon's title had she not married Henry VIII.

jcarroll · #**438** 10-23-2007, 06:55 PM

Can anyone point me in the right direction to get a list of line titles used and their salutations?

Thanks!