The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #261  
Old 04-03-2013, 03:36 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 348
I think it will depend strongly on if Charles dies as Prince of Wales or King.

If Charles is still POW, I think Camilla will likely retire to ReyMill or one of Charles' private homes, if he leaves their use to her. She may attend the rare royal event, but I'd not expect to see her often. I see her being involved in her charities still, she seems to have a real passion for them. But she will continue to fly under the radar with them.

If she is Dowager queen, I think it will be different. Camilla knows her place, and she has always been one for the limelight. She won't be the queen mother. I think she will attend more royal functions then she would have if she was dowager princess of wales. But she will not have the spotlight the queen mum did, as she is not will's mother. Since Will and Kate would be King and queen and not at Clarence house, I don't see an issue with her continuing to use it when she is in London for royal duties. But I could see her spending more time at her own home in the country, ecept when busy with her charities.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #262  
Old 04-03-2013, 03:37 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,441
I think Camilla will continue to support the charities she has taken on - it is clear that she is committed to these charities and that she is happy to support them.

As for where she would live - I would expect a London place such as CH simply because she is currently there and William and Kate will have set up in KP so if Camilla were to become the widow of Charles before he becomes King than there would be no need to change residences. She will, of course keep Raymill but unlike the QM I don't expect her to have a home near Windsor such as Royal Lodge that the QM had. Camilla may also keep Birkhall in Scotland just because of the memories so that she could go there and remember the years with Charles.

If she becomes a widow after becoming Princess Consort I can see her moving back to CH when Wiliam has to move into BP.

Camilla will, of course, never be the Queen Mother as she won't be the mother of the next monarch (Diana would have held that title had the marriage worked).
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #263  
Old 04-03-2013, 03:39 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Most likely Camilla's official London residence will continue to be Clarence House and her country residence, Raymill House.

If Charles is King and passes on, that would make Camilla Queen Dowager & Queen Mother or Princess Dowager or Princess Mother. If she's able, Camilla will continue to carry out royal duties and be supportive of King William & Queen Catherine.
Queen Mother is reserved for a woman who not only was queen consort, but also whose son or daughter has taken the throne. Will is her stepson, so Camilla would not be titled queen mother, simplye dowager queen.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #264  
Old 04-03-2013, 03:40 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,261
Camilla would definitely be the "dowager" but she would never be either Queen Mother or Prncess Mother simply because she will not be the monarch mother. Her position would be the same as Queen Adelaides, widow of the previous monarch but not mother to the new monarch regardless of title.
I expect she would continue to support her various charities, and would need a residence/office in London in addition to Raymill.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #265  
Old 04-03-2013, 03:51 PM
Dman's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 6,627
Okay, so incase of Charles's passing before he becomes King, that would make Camilla HRH The Dowager Duchess of Cornwall?

Yeah, I don't see Camilla disappearing from public life but carrying on with her official duties although taking a backseat to Catherine.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #266  
Old 04-03-2013, 04:07 PM
Artemisia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,425

Yes, if Charles predeceases his mother, Camilla will be The Dowager Duchess of Cornwall (or the Dowager Princess of Wales, or any of her other titles).
If Charles dies after becoming King, Camilla will make a transition from Her Majesty The Queen to Her Majesty Queen Camilla (the new Queen Consort will be The Queen). She will de facto be a Queen Dowager but the title isn't normally used (along with the Queen Mother or the Queen Consort).
Reply With Quote
  #267  
Old 04-03-2013, 04:08 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is online now
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Okay, so incase of Charles's passing before he becomes King, that would make Camilla HRH The Dowager Duchess of Cornwall?

Yeah, I don't see Camilla disappearing from public life but carrying on with her official duties although taking a backseat to Catherine.
Technically, yes, although I believe that the "Dowager" is only used when there is a new spouse holding the title "Duchess of Cornwall" (or whatever other title, for that matter). As there wouldn't be a new Duke of Cornwall for some time, it stands that Camilla could simply continue to be called the Duchess of Cornwall.

If Charles becomes King then the next Duke of Cornwall is William, and Catherine is the Duchess. However, if Charles doesn't become king then when he does the title Duke of Cornwall doesn't pass on, so there is no Duke and Camilla can remain simply the Duchess. The next time there will be a Duke under that scenario will be when William becomes king if his heir is a son (or in the unlikely event that William, Baby Cambrige, and Harry all die while HM still lives, in which case Andrew is the Duke). Even then, the Duke needs a wife in order for their to be a new Duchess, so Camilla doesn't necessarily have to be relegated into the Dowager territory.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #268  
Old 04-03-2013, 11:40 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,732
I highly doubt Camilla would continue to reside at Clarence House if Charles died before becoming King. While she would be the widow of an heir to throne, she is not the mother of the future King and her future role would be much diminished with her husband's death.

More likely, she would return to private life with occasional charitable endeavors and very minimal public duties, which would probably be her strong desire. She would remain HRH The Duchess of Cornwall in style as a widow, unless William's first-born is a boy, at which point she would be styled Dowager Duchess since she would not be the wife of the new Duke once William became King.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #269  
Old 04-09-2013, 08:23 PM
padams2359's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Orleans, United States
Posts: 388
I think the DofCW will go out to the country and would be happy with an apt in KP for city visits. If PC death would precede her's.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #270  
Old 04-09-2013, 08:30 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Rio de Janeiro and Petrópolis, Brazil
Posts: 1,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
She would remain HRH The Duchess of Cornwall in style as a widow, unless William's first-born is a boy, at which point she would be styled Dowager Duchess since she would not be the wife of the new Duke once William became King.

"Dowager" is only used when the new peer is married.

Dowager - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But she can also be styled as {Christian Name}, {title} of {place}.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #271  
Old 04-09-2013, 08:32 PM
cepe's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Technically, yes, although I believe that the "Dowager" is only used when there is a new spouse holding the title "Duchess of Cornwall" (or whatever other title, for that matter). As there wouldn't be a new Duke of Cornwall for some time, it stands that Camilla could simply continue to be called the Duchess of Cornwall.

If Charles becomes King then the next Duke of Cornwall is William, and Catherine is the Duchess. However, if Charles doesn't become king then when he does the title Duke of Cornwall doesn't pass on, so there is no Duke and Camilla can remain simply the Duchess. The next time there will be a Duke under that scenario will be when William becomes king if his heir is a son (or in the unlikely event that William, Baby Cambrige, and Harry all die while HM still lives, in which case Andrew is the Duke). Even then, the Duke needs a wife in order for their to be a new Duchess, so Camilla doesn't necessarily have to be relegated into the Dowager territory.
Sorry I'm answering this so late but just picked up this thread.

As soon as the male holder of a title dies, and the heir takes that title then the mother becomes the Dowager. Made up example - 10th Duke of Xshire dies, and his unmarried son becomes the 11th Duke - the mother of the 11th Duke becomes Dowager Duchess. If she didn't it would look like she was the wife of the 11th Duke. She may choose to call herself "First Name", Duchess of Xshire but she is not just Duchess of Xshire.

If Charles dies as Prince of Wales, William becomes PoW and DoCornwall and Catherine becomes PssoW and Duchess of Cornwall and Camilla is Dowager Duchess.
__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #272  
Old 04-09-2013, 08:39 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Rio de Janeiro and Petrópolis, Brazil
Posts: 1,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
If Charles dies as Prince of Wales, William becomes PoW and DoCornwall and Catherine becomes PssoW and Duchess of Cornwall and Camilla is Dowager Duchess.
Prince William can't become the Duke of Cornwall during the present reign.

Only the Monarch's oldest living son and heir can be the Duke of Cornwall.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #273  
Old 04-09-2013, 08:39 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
If Charles dies as Prince of Wales, William becomes PoW and DoCornwall and Catherine becomes PssoW and Duchess of Cornwall and Camilla is Dowager Duchess.
If Charles dies as PoW, William would not become Duke of Cornwall because he will not be both eldest son of the monarch and heir apparent both criteria required for the Cornwall title. Camilla would remain HRH The Duchess of Cornwall.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #274  
Old 04-09-2013, 08:41 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 3,856
Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
If Charles dies as Prince of Wales, William becomes PoW and DoCornwall and Catherine becomes PssoW and Duchess of Cornwall and Camilla is Dowager Duchess.
Actually if Charles died as the Prince of Wales, William would not become the Prince of Wales (nor Kate the Princess of Wales) or the Duke of Cornwall as William is not the eldest son of the Monarch. Even when Charles ascends the throne, its not automatic that William becomes the Prince of Wales. That will be up to Charles to decide. William however would be the Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge as the eldest son of the Monarch.
__________________
“We live in a world where we have to hide to make love, while violence is practiced in broad daylight.”
~~~ John Lennon ~~~
Reply With Quote
  #275  
Old 04-09-2013, 08:50 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is online now
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,111
If the male holder of a title dies his wife becomes the Dowager automatically. However, until the new male holder of the title marries she can still chose to be called by her former courtesy title - the Whatever of Whatever, without the Dowager. This is owing to the fact that there will still only be one woman using that title.

Thus, the 10th Duke of Xshire is married to the Duchess of Xshire. The 10th Duke dies and their unmarried son becomes the 11th Duke of Xshire. The new Dowager Duchess can still chose to be called the Duchess of Xshire until such a time as her son gets married - resulting in a new Duchess of Xshire - or she herself remarries - meaning that she loses the right to use her late husband's title by courtesy.

In the case of Camilla, William, and Catherine, there is no possible way that William will be the Duke of Cornwall while Camilla will be the Dowager Duchess - the title Duke of Cornwall is reserved for the eldest living son of the monarch who is also the heir apparent. If Charles dies while still being Prince of Wales then William will become the heir apparent but the monarch's eldest living son will be Andrew, resulting in the title Duke of Cornwall reverting to the crown. As such, there is no point in making Camilla use the title Dowager Duchess of Cornwall - there will be neither a new Duke nor a new Duchess. In this scenario, the next (most likely) Duke of Cornwall would be William's son, once William succeeds to the throne and assuming that his son is born first. Even we said that Charles then the Queen died in quick succession and William inherited the throne tomorrow and Baby Cambridge is in fact male and consequently the Duke of Cornwall, there wouldn't be a new Duchess of Cornwall for some time, enabling Camilla to continue using the title.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
if Charles died as the Prince of Wales, William would not become the Prince of Wales (nor Kate the Princess of Wales) or the Duke of Cornwall as William is not the eldest son of the Monarch...
Not being the eldest son of the monarch would not prevent him from being the Prince of Wales. The Prince of Wales is the monarch's heir apparent, regardless of the individual's descent (son, grandson, great-grandson) - so long as the heir is incapable of being displaced in the line of succession he (or she) is eligible to the title. The monarch, however, has to create the title for the individual, so it is up to him or her to decide whether or not to do so. George III was only ever the monarch's grandson before becoming king, but was created Prince of Wales about a month after his father's death, which made him the heir apparent.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #276  
Old 05-13-2013, 09:01 AM
Commoner
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 22
Just reading the post, If the Queens children died (horrible as it sounds but do not wish it on anyone) and Edward remains as the son of the Queen would he have the rights in term King of Earl or would that change? and therefore Sophie becomes Queen Mother? someone might explain better?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #277  
Old 05-13-2013, 09:40 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sophie Wessex View Post
Just reading the post, If the Queens children died (horrible as it sounds but do not wish it on anyone) and Edward remains as the son of the Queen would he have the rights in term King of Earl or would that change? and therefore Sophie becomes Queen Mother? someone might explain better?
??????? I am guessing this is some sort of a joke, but if Charles, Anne and Andrew died the succession line remains intact. William becomes heir apparent to his grandmother followed by baby Cambridge. Edwards status is not affected. Sophie could never be Queen Mother because she would never have been Queen Consort and never the mother of the next monarch.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #278  
Old 05-13-2013, 09:53 AM
vkrish's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 842
Apparently, Mr.Sophie Wessex wants even William, Harry, Beatrice and Eugenie, all to die in one shot. So lets answer inthat scenario.
Yes then Edward will be the King. No matter if he is Earl or Marquess or Viscount or nobody..
And Sophie will just be Queen dear, not Qeen Mother. She will be Queen Mother once Edward dies and James becomes King..
__________________
The only word I hate in the Royal Dictionary - ABDICATION
Reply With Quote
  #279  
Old 05-17-2013, 08:12 PM
padams2359's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Orleans, United States
Posts: 388
I think that is the King Ralph scenario.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #280  
Old 06-11-2013, 12:04 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Zeeland, United States
Posts: 49
If William has a son and William were to die while Charles is king, Kate would continue as Duchess of Cornwall and Cambridge, right?

William and Kate's son would inherit the Duke of Cambridge title, but not the Duke of Cornwall title, right?

Now my real question: Once Charles dies, and William and Kate's son becomes king, what would Kate be called? Would Kate continue to be called Duchess of Cornwall and Cambridge or would she have a special title as mother of the King? Also, if Kate's son were to already be a father of a son, would Kate then be 'Duchess Dowager of Cornwall and Duchess of Cambridge'?
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dowager, styles and titles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swedish Queens from the Past Josefine Swedish Royal History 35 07-05-2014 04:15 AM
Royal Dowagers Australian Royal Life and Lifestyle 36 05-18-2008 03:24 AM
Religion of Royal Spouses bct88 Royal Life and Lifestyle 41 06-30-2005 10:41 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince felipe crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta elena infanta leonor infanta sofia jordan kate middleton king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg olympic games ottoman picture of the month pom president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince pieter-christiaan princess princess aimee princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess mary queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit wedding william



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:55 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]