Questions about British Styles and Titles 1: Ending 2022

[Charlotte_Aster]

Not only does the Countess also the Court Circular does also. And they preferred an Earldom, with their children styled as children of an earl, not that of an royal earl.

 

[qzwxec]

Not only does the Countess also the Court Circular does also. And they preferred an Earldom, with their children styled as children of an earl, not that of an royal earl.

Well they took on the Earldom because its already been agreed that when HRH The Duke of Edinburgh passes on, that Charles, William, Harry, and Andrew will all decline the title and that it will be created (with a new patent) for Edward, and his son and heirs.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Not only does the Countess also the Court Circular does also. And they preferred an Earldom, with their children styled as children of an earl, not that of an royal earl.

It was done that way with the intent to give Edward the Dukedom of Edinburgh when his father passes.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Please note that all of the Queen's children no longer officially get the Prince/Princess styling officially, except Charles in Scotland, as they have substantive titles to go with their prince/princess ones.

Edward, since being created Earl of Wessex, has only been officially called HRH The Earl of Wessex so of course his wife is HRH The Countess of Wessex.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Well they took on the Earldom because its already been agreed that when HRH The Duke of Edinburgh passes on, that Charles, William, Harry, and Andrew will all decline the title and that it will be created (with a new patent) for Edward, and his son and heirs.

This is NOT what was announced at the time.

What was announced was that when both The Queen and Philip had passed and the Duke of Edinburgh title had merged with the Crown i.e. when Charles became King, the title would be recreated for Edward.

The official monarchy website: http://www.royal.gov.uk/ThecurrentRoyalFamily/TheEarlofWessex/The Earl of Wessex.aspx
says At the same time (the previous point was relating to his creation as Earl of Wessex) it was announced that His Royal Highness will be given the title Duke of Edinburgh in due course, when the present title now held by Prince Philip eventually reverts to the Crown.

The BBC report from the day of the wedding BBC NEWS | Special Report | 1999 | 06/99 | royal wedding | Wessex titles for Edward and Sophie It has also been agreed that Edward will also become Duke of Edinburgh after the death of his mother, the Queen, and his father, Prince Philip, who currently holds the dukedom.

 

[NGalitzine]

Women who marry British princes, like Sophie did, take the female version of their husbands titles but they do not become "Princess Sophie". Had Edward not been created an Earl she would have become HRH The Princess Edward but instead is now HRH The Countess of Wessex.

 

[Iluvbertie]

You are correct - they take the female version of their husband's name - and so she became The Princess Edward along with The Countess of Wessex and Viscountess Severn.

 

[Tsar bobo Iv]

why does after 1 princess royal passes it takes a couple yrs for the next one 2 be named example
when princess Mary who died in 1965 princess Anne did not take on the title till 1987

 

[cepe]

Because the title is not automatic but within the gift of the Sovereign.

Found this on wikipedia

"Princess Royal is a style customarily (but not automatically) awarded by a British Monarch to his or her eldest daughter. The style is held for life, so a princess cannot be given the style during the lifetime of another Princess Royal. In particular,Queen Elizabeth II never held the title as her aunt, Princess Mary, was in possession of the title."

 

[DukeOfAster]

I would say with Elizabeth being the heir it could have gone to Margaret.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I would say with Elizabeth being the heir it could have gone to Margaret.

No as it is by tradition limited to the eldest daughter of the monarch and Margaret was never in that position.

In addition there can only be one at a time so George VI never had the chance to name Elizabeth Princess Royal as his sister outlived him.

Although Elizabeth took some time to name Anne as PR George V didn't naming his daughter PR less than a year later.

I think the idea of appropriate mourning might play into it as well as the monarch is naming their daughter to a title that was formally held by an often much loved sister, which is different with the Prince of Wales title as the previous holder is often the one to confer the new title and so is very much alive.

 

[Tsar bobo Iv]

thank u i should have though of the mourning period thing i probably sounded cold

 

[sarahedwards2]

So when Anne dies (which I don't even want to think about right now) and if William and Kate have a daughter, the title will go to her.

 

[Artemisia]

So when Anne dies (which I don't even want to think about right now) and if William and Kate have a daughter, the title will go to her.

Only if William is King by the time, and even then not automatically.

The title is traditionally (but not always) given to the eldest surviving daughter of the Monarch. Princess Anne will have the title for life: if she passes away during the lifetime of King William, and if the latter has a daughter, it is probable she'll be created The Princess Royal. Most probably, that'll happen after she comes of age. Then again, that may never happen: basically, granting or not granting his eldest daughter the title will be upon William's discretion.

 

[Osipi]

In this scenario, would William name his daughter as Princess Royal if by that time equal primogeniture has come about? I'm thinking that if Anne were to pass on during William's reign, out of respect for her, the title of Princess Royal wouldn't be used as its a lifetime title and his first daughter would eventually be Queen.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens on this one eh?

 

[Meraude]

The only way William's first daughter could become queen would be if she also happened to be the firstborn of their children. A first daughter could very well have one or more brothers and still be named Princess Royal as being the first female child of William and Kate.

 

[Artemisia]

Even if William's first-born child is a girl (and as such, the future Monarch), there would be no obstacles for William to create his daughter The Princess Royal as well.

While an appropriate mourning period for Princess Anne would be observed, there is no reason why the title should skip a generation, so to speak.
For instance, Victoria, Princess Royal died in 1901 and only 4 years later Princess Louise was granted the title. Louise, Princess Royal herself died in 1931, and only a year later Princess Mary was given the title. Following Mary's death in 1965, the title then was vacant for the second-longest period in its history - 22 years - until Anne was created The Princess Royal in 1987.

 

[NGalitzine]

^^^^^
Of course in Victoria's case she had lived outside the UK for years and was better known at the time of her death as German Empress so her association with the titled had dimmed.

 

[Meraude]

Even if William's first-born child is a girl (and as such, the future Monarch), there would be no obstacles for William to create his daughter The Princess Royal as well.

Unless a heiress apparent will be invested with the title Princess of Wales, I doubt she would become both Princess of Wales suo jure and Princess Royal.

 

[DukeOfAster]

Unless a heiress apparent will be invested with the title Princess of Wales, I doubt she would become both Princess of Wales suo jure and Princess Royal.

I would think that she would one day be Duchess of Cornwall and then Princess of Wales and Finally Queen. Traditional ways can be changed. For it to be a true change the daughter as well as son would get the same.

 

[Artemisia]

Unless a heiress apparent will be invested with the title Princess of Wales, I doubt she would become both Princess of Wales suo jure and Princess Royal.

There is absolutely no reason why William's eldest child, if a daughter, cannot be a Princess of Wales (assuming she ever becomes one) and The Princess Royal at the same time. It's not as though either title can be conferred upon younger siblings, so why not have both? Of course, she would be known under her highest available title - and The Prince(ss) of Wales pretty much outranks anything and everything else.

I would think that she would one day be Duchess of Cornwall and then Princess of Wales and Finally Queen. Traditional ways can be changed. For it to be a true change the daughter as well as son would get the same.

As things are right now, the female form of The Prince of Wales is only used to designate the wife of the Prince of Wales. That may or may not change it future: time will tell. Of course, there are technically no legal obstacles for an Heiress Apparent to be created one - it's just never been done before.
The only time a woman came anywhere close to be The Princess of Wales in her own right was back in 16th century, when Lady Mary (the only surviving child of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon) was briefly given all the rights and prerogatives of The Prince(ss) of Wales.

The Duke of Cornwall title (and several others) is different because the holder must not only be the Heir Apparent, but also the eldest surviving son of the Monarch. For instance, if Prince Charles were to predecease Her Majesty, Prince William could be created The Prince of Wales but he'd never be the Duke of Cornwall.

 

[branchg]

When The Princess Elizabeth turned 18, it was suggested to George VI that he create her "Princess of Wales" in her own right as heiress presumptive since it was clear there would be no further children. But he felt that title was for the wife of The Prince of Wales and there was no reason to change precedent.

The Government agreed, however, that a portion of the income generated by the Duchy of Cornwall would be granted to Elizabeth to pay for her staff and expenses as heiress presumptive.

 

[DukeOfAster]

I would like to say that if the day come that a young lady was born all of that could be changed to make it where these are titles to the heir apparent not just a male.

 

[HRHThePrince]

I have no doubt that upon ascending the throne, Prince Charles will issue new Letters Patent reconfirming the style of HRH and title of Prince and Princess to the children of the Sovereign, and allowing the latter style and titles to pass to the male and female line grandchildren of the Sovereign whose son or daughter is the heir or heiress apparent and possibly to the eldest living child of the eldest child of the Prince or Princess of Wales-- My opinion and speculation is based off of full primogeniture. If this law is enacted there would be no need to automatically confer these honours on male line grandchildren seeing as full primogeniture will allow equal inheritance regardless of gender.

 

[DukeOfAster]

Could not agree with you more!!!!

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

Will the dukedoms of Gloucester and Kent continue to be royal dukedoms when the current holders pass away?
I understand the Earl of Ulster and the Earl of St Andrews are not royal highnesses and was wondering does this impact the dukedoms.

 

[NGalitzine]

They will cease to be royal dukedoms, although the family relationship will continue even as they grow more distant. When the Earl of Ulster and the Earl of St Andrews succeed their fathers they will be known as His Grace the Duke of Gloucester and His Grace the Duke of Kent.

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

Thank you for info

The Earl of St Andrews will be the first Roman Catholic Duke of Kent in many hundreds of years if I'm not mistaken.

 

[NGalitzine]

The Earl is not himself a Roman Catholic but his wife is as are most if not all his children so eventually the dukedom likely will be in a RC family.

 

[Duke-of-Earl]

So before the 1917 LP, the Earls of Ulster and St Andrews would have been styled as highness? HH the Earl of Ulster etc?