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  #1801  
Old 02-04-2013, 07:20 PM
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Apart from Maxima, Stephanie of Luxembourg and Mathilde of Belgium were also created Princesses in their own right of their respective countries. Thus, Stephanie is Princess Stephanie, Hereditary Grand Duchess of Luxembourg and Mathilde is Princess Mathilde, Duchess of Brabant.
Personally, totally my own opinion, i feel if they do the job, they deserve being called Princess Sophie (or whomever).

Just as i feel if someone is made a knight, such as Sir Paul Holmes (in my own country), then his wife should be just Mrs, as she did not do anything to deserve it.

(This would solve that really annoying - to me - habit of the NZ press to call anyone who's the wife of a knight, Lady Firstname Surname. E.g. Lady Deborah Holmes, when it should be just Lady Holmes.) Just a personal bugbear of mine; it's so easy to get it right.
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  #1802  
Old 02-04-2013, 07:22 PM
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Edward and Sophie wanted their children styled as the children of an earl, so they are. They are legally Princess Louise and Prince James of Wessex, which when they're 18, they can assume as their rightful titles if they so choose.
I expect that when their parents become DUke and DUchess of Edinburgh, then Lady Louise will retain that style, and Viscount Severn will become Earl of Wessex. I think that would be correct.
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  #1803  
Old 02-04-2013, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by EllieCat View Post
I expect that when their parents become DUke and DUchess of Edinburgh, then Lady Louise will retain that style, and Viscount Severn will become Earl of Wessex. I think that would be correct.
If they wanted to, they could assume their princely titles and become Princess Louise of Edinburgh and Prince James of Edinburgh. Though it's unlikely that they would, as they've lived their entire lives without them, but it would be within their rights. Once Edward assumes his father's dukedom, James would become Lord Merioneth, as the heir to that ducal title.
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  #1804  
Old 02-04-2013, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sister Morphine View Post
If they wanted to, they could assume their princely titles and become Princess Louise of Edinburgh and Prince James of Edinburgh. Though it's unlikely that they would, as they've lived their entire lives without them, but it would be within their rights. Once Edward assumes his father's dukedom, James would become Lord Merioneth, as the heir to that ducal title.
Edward will not succeed to the Edinburgh dukedom. On the passing of the duke Charles succeeds. On His accession to the throne the Edinburgh title merges with the Crown. It is up to Charles to then create his brother Duke of Edinburgh. Viscount Severn will then start to use his fathers secondary title, Earl of Wessex/
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  #1805  
Old 02-04-2013, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Edward will not succeed to the Edinburgh dukedom. On the passing of the duke Charles succeeds. On His accession to the throne the Edinburgh title merges with the Crown. It is up to Charles to then create his brother Duke of Edinburgh. Viscount Severn will then start to use his fathers secondary title, Earl of Wessex/

You are correct in the normal course of events but...there are scenarios where the title doesn't merge with the Crown e.g. William's child is a girl and both Charles and William predecease Philip (unlikely but...) then the girl becomes Queen and Harry Duke of Edinburgh.

There are many scenarios still in play for the Edinburgh title - the most likely is that it will merge with the Crown at some time through Charles but that isn't a given.

We are also assuming that Charles will honour the announcement made in 1999 (and I have no doubt that he will) but what about William - will he honour that announcement??? - I am no so sure about him.
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  #1806  
Old 02-09-2013, 06:28 AM
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A few months ago I was somewhat confused on the official title & style of a wife of a British prince. I referenced The Queen's late aunt, Prince Alice, Duchess of Gloucester, who requested permission from the Queen to style herself as Princess Alice. As before, I read that Queen Victoria's granddaughter, Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone hated the fact of two Princess Alice's in the Royal Family. She felt that the Dowager Duchess of Gloucester should have been styled HRH The Princess Henry, Duchess of Gloucester. Plenty on this forum said that wasn't the correct style for a widow who was the wife of a peer-- and that it was incorrect for her to be styled as The Princess Henry.


I was scanning the British Monarchy website & came across something very odd concerning The Countess of Wessex. In the Styles & Titles section of her page, it says

The Countess of Wessex can also be known as Her Royal Highness The Princess Edward, Countess of Wessex.

Here's the link Styles and titles
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  #1807  
Old 02-09-2013, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by HRHThePrince View Post

I was scanning the British Monarchy website & came across something very odd concerning The Countess of Wessex. In the Styles & Titles section of her page, it says

The Countess of Wessex can also be known as Her Royal Highness The Princess Edward, Countess of Wessex.

Here's the link Styles and titles
Why is that odd? That's her title.
Her Royal Highness The Princess Edward Antony Richard Louis, Countess of Wessex, Viscountess Severn, Dame Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order, Dame of Justice of the Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of St John of Jerusalem
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  #1808  
Old 02-09-2013, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by HRHThePrince View Post
A few months ago I was somewhat confused on the official title & style of a wife of a British prince. I referenced The Queen's late aunt, Prince Alice, Duchess of Gloucester, who requested permission from the Queen to style herself as Princess Alice. As before, I read that Queen Victoria's granddaughter, Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone hated the fact of two Princess Alice's in the Royal Family. She felt that the Dowager Duchess of Gloucester should have been styled HRH The Princess Henry, Duchess of Gloucester. Plenty on this forum said that wasn't the correct style for a widow who was the wife of a peer-- and that it was incorrect for her to be styled as The Princess Henry.


I was scanning the British Monarchy website & came across something very odd concerning The Countess of Wessex. In the Styles & Titles section of her page, it says

The Countess of Wessex can also be known as Her Royal Highness The Princess Edward, Countess of Wessex.

Here's the link Styles and titles
In regards to Princess Alice's title, she was The Duchess of Gloucester until her husband was alive. Once he died, she should have become The Dowager Duchess of Gloucester, while her son's wife was The Duchess of Gloucester. However, Alice reportedly hated being called Dowager Duchess so she requested the Queen to be known as Princess Alice although usually only Princesses by birth can prefix the title to their names. The request was granted and from 1974 until her death in 2004, her title was Her Royal Highness Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester.


The Countess of Wessex is indeed a Princess of the United Kingdom - Princess by marriage. Because she isn't a Princess in her own right, Sophie can't prefix the title to her name (Princess Sophie) so is instead known under her husband's styles and titles - The Princess Edward, Countess of Wessex. In the same way, Camilla is The Princess Charles, Kate is Princess William, Birgitte is Princess Richard, Katharine is Princess Edward, Marie Christine is Princess Michael.

All of these ladies are known under their husband's peerage titles (Countess of Wessex, Duchess of Cornwall, Duchess of Cambridge, Duchess of Gloucester, etcetera) because a person usually uses his/her highest available title - and peerage titles take precedence over those of "mere" Princes and Princesses of the United King. Thus, the Earl of Wessex is actually higher than just Prince Edward and consequently, the Countess of Wessex is higher than Princess Edward. If Prince William hadn't been created the Duke of Cambridge before his marriage, his wife would have been known as Princess William.
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  #1809  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:01 AM
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Artemsia, Catherine isn't "The Princess William." The definite article "the" is reserved for children of the monarch (and Prince Philip). She won't be "The Princess William" until Charles is King. For now, she's HRH Princess William, Duchess of Cambridge, Countess of Strathearn, Baroness Carrickfergus.
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  #1810  
Old 02-09-2013, 11:46 AM
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You are perfectly right; I have removed "The" from Kate's title, as well as those of Birgitte, Marie Christine and Katharine.
Only Camilla and Sophie as The Princess Charles and The Princess Edward respectively.
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  #1811  
Old 02-09-2013, 12:06 PM
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Camilla and Sophie can be styled HRH The Princess Charles and HRH The Prince Edward, but I have never seen it used in the United Kingdom. In the other commonwealth countries, and other visits the aforementioned women have been on, often use The Princess Charles/Edward, followed by their other styles (Cornwall and Wessex.)

Is James THE Viscount Severn or is he James, Viscount Severn? I know that Louise is THE Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor, but we only ever seen it Lady Louise unless it is in the Court Circular. It was THE in William and Catherine's Order of Service, which is where I noticed it first.
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  #1812  
Old 02-09-2013, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Molly2101 View Post

Is James THE Viscount Severn or is he James, Viscount Severn? I know that Louise is THE Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor, but we only ever seen it Lady Louise unless it is in the Court Circular. It was THE in William and Catherine's Order of Service, which is where I noticed it first.
James, Viscount Severn and Lady Louise Windsor seems the most accurate. The THE seems to be for The Queens children.

Something I find odd, is that in Sophie's title she is still Viscountess Severn, yet her son is Viscount Severn.
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  #1813  
Old 02-09-2013, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Molly2101 View Post
Camilla and Sophie can be styled HRH The Princess Charles and HRH The Prince Edward, but I have never seen it used in the United Kingdom. In the other commonwealth countries, and other visits the aforementioned women have been on, often use The Princess Charles/Edward, followed by their other styles (Cornwall and Wessex.)

Is James THE Viscount Severn or is he James, Viscount Severn? I know that Louise is THE Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor, but we only ever seen it Lady Louise unless it is in the Court Circular. It was THE in William and Catherine's Order of Service, which is where I noticed it first.
As mentioned earlier, a person uses his/her highest available title, which is why you'll never see Camilla, Sophie or Kate being addressed as The Princess Charles, The Princess Edward or Princess William. If, however, one of their husbands had no peerage title, they would have been very much known under that style. Look at Princess Michael of Kent. As for The in William and Kate's title, was it The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge? In that case, The simply signifies the peer and his current wife.

James is not The Viscount Severn, he is James, Viscount Severn. Right now, he uses the title Viscount Severn as his style by courtesy, as the eldest son of the Earl of Wessex. However, the title Viscount Severn still belongs to his father, Prince Edward (whose full titles are His Royal Highness The Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex, Viscount Severn). When Prince Edward passes away and James inherits his father's peerage titles (assuming they are the same as now), he will be The Earl of Wessex and Viscount Severn; since Earl of Wessex is the more senior title, that's the one James will be known under.
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  #1814  
Old 02-09-2013, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
James, Viscount Severn and Lady Louise Windsor seems the most accurate. The THE seems to be for The Queens children.

Something I find odd, is that in Sophie's title she is still Viscountess Severn, yet her son is Viscount Severn.
THE is for the Monarch's children who are Princes and a Princess, but in the CC Lady Louise was styled as The Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor, and it was the same for her in the Royal wedding Order of Service. I believe Lady Sarah is The Lady Sarah as well, but we only ever seen her styled as Lady Sarah.

Thanks for clearing up James' title Artemisia.
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  #1815  
Old 02-09-2013, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Molly2101 View Post
THE is for the Monarch's children who are Princes and a Princess, but in the CC Lady Louise was styled as The Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor, and it was the same for her in the Royal wedding Order of Service. I believe Lady Sarah is The Lady Sarah as well, but we only ever seen her styled as Lady Sarah.

Louise is indeed The Lady Louise Windsor (or Mountbatten-Windsor) because she is a daughter of a Peer. In the same way, Diana was The Lady Diana, Sarah Chatto is The Lady Sarah Chatto, the Duke of Gloucester's daughters are The Lady Davina and The Lady Rose, etcetera.

To explain better, "The" is used:
- Before the title of a Prince/Princess to signify their positions as children of the Sovereign (The Princess Anne, The Prince Edward...)
- Before the title of a Peer, whether royal or not (The Earl of Wessex, The Duke of Wellington...)
- Before the title of a Peeress in her own right (The Baroness Thatcher...)
- Before the title of the current wife of a Peer (The Duchess of Westminster, The Countess of Mar...) *
- Before the title of the Peer's widow (The Dowager Duchess of Devonshire...)
- Before the style of non-royal sons of a British Prince (The Lord Frederick Windsor, the Lord Nicholas Windsor...) **

* Former wives of peers are styles as Name + Peerage title without "The". For instance, the current wife of the Earl Spencer is known as The Countess Spencer while his former wife is Caroline, Countess Spencer. Similarly, Sarah Ferguson is styled as Sarah, Duchess of York.
** Royal sons of British Princes (male-line grandchildren of the Monarch) don't appear to share this privilege. For instance, Harry is simply Prince Henry of Wales (and not The Prince Henry), Prince Richard (before he became The Duke of Gloucester) was Prince Richard of Gloucester, etcetera.
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  #1816  
Old 02-09-2013, 01:43 PM
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Being a Peer of the Realm is superior to being just a Prince/Princess. In the UK, having royal rank signifies place and precedence to the throne by right of birth or marriage.

A prince or princess holds superior rank as HRH, but is still a commoner. Once created a Peer, they have a title, rather than just a style.
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  #1817  
Old 02-09-2013, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
- Before the title of a Peeress in her own right (The Baroness Thatcher...)
- Before the title of the current wife of a Peer (The Duchess of Westminster, The Countess of Mar...)
The Countess of Mar is perhaps not the best example to choose, as there are two ladies with the title the Countess of Mar, one being the wife of the 14th Earl of Mar and the 16th Earl of Kellie, and the second is the 31st Countess of Mar and 24 Lady Garioch suo jure, even if both have the right to the title the Countess of Mar.
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  #1818  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:09 PM
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Did you read anything that i wrote?
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  #1819  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHThePrince View Post
Did you read anything that i wrote?
I thought that Artemesia answered your question in post#1764.
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  #1820  
Old 02-09-2013, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHThePrince View Post
Did you read anything that i wrote?

Quite a number of people did read what you wrote, Artemisia replied directly to your post, and other discussed issues raised from that leading to a number of later posts to yours.
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