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  #1621  
Old 11-16-2012, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Lady could be the either the daughter of a peer, the wife of a peer or the wife of a knight. e.g. The wife of a peer, other than a duchess, is often called 'lady' rather than say 'countess' although officially it would be Countess.

When in written form it would be the more formal Countess but to her face 'my lady' or 'Lady xxx'
Thanks, but...If she were the daughter of a peer, wouldn't she be Lady Gaga, rather than Lady Finger (assuming she was named
Gaga Finger)? Would Sophie ever be called Lady Wessex? I just couldn't figure what peer would have a last name like Stafford Chomondely Brown. And if her husband was 'only' a KBE, would she have been so snobbish (if you didn't see it, she was very grand)?
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  #1622  
Old 11-16-2012, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia

I believe that Charles Armstrong-Jones is called Patrick by the family to avoid any confusion between him and the Prince of Wales.
On one of the documentaries on the queens life, they show the family in the room off the balcony before a balcony appearance after trooping the colour. Viscount Linley is calling to his son,Charles in the scenes where he was running about and he was trying to get his attention. He definitely was calling him Charles. It was a few years back.
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  #1623  
Old 11-16-2012, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
Thanks, but...If she were the daughter of a peer, wouldn't she be Lady Gaga, rather than Lady Finger (assuming she was named
Gaga Finger)? Would Sophie ever be called Lady Wessex? I just couldn't figure what peer would have a last name like Stafford Chomondely Brown. And if her husband was 'only' a KBE, would she have been so snobbish (if you didn't see it, she was very grand)?
Daughter - Lady Diana
Wife - Lady Spencer (Spencer the title not Spencer the surname)
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  #1624  
Old 11-16-2012, 11:21 PM
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Daughter - Lady Diana
Wife - Lady Spencer (Spencer the title not Spencer the surname)
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  #1625  
Old 11-18-2012, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichelleQ2 View Post
On one of the documentaries on the queens life, they show the family in the room off the balcony before a balcony appearance after trooping the colour. Viscount Linley is calling to his son,Charles in the scenes where he was running about and he was trying to get his attention. He definitely was calling him Charles. It was a few years back.
I remember that too, it was from Monarchy At Work. David definitely called him Charles, not Patrick. Just noticed Charles' full name has Inigo, does anyone know where that comes from?

Is it possible that once Charles becomes King, and writes new Letters Patent, he could strip Beatrice and Eugenie of their Princess style, and have them styled as Lady?
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  #1626  
Old 11-18-2012, 06:17 PM
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Inigo Jones was an English Architect - considered the first, and one of the best. 16th/17th century. Here's a link to the wiki page

Inigo Jones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #1627  
Old 11-18-2012, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Molly2101 View Post
Is it possible that once Charles becomes King, and writes new Letters Patent, he could strip Beatrice and Eugenie of their Princess style, and have them styled as Lady?
Yes, it is possible.

The title of a British Prince or Princess is entirely at the will of the Sovereign and can be granted or revoked at any time. If Charles decides to downsize the Royal Family, he can issue new Letters Patent whereby Beatrice and Eugenie will be styled and titled as children of a Duke - that is to say, Lady Beatrice and Lady Eugenie.

In all probability, the changes would not be directed against the York Princesses personally but will concern the entire Royal Family. For instance, Charles could issue Letters Patent limiting the style of Royal Highness and title of a Prince/Princess to the children of the Monarch and children of the Heir Apparent to the Throne (in his own reign, that would mean William, Harry, and William's - but not Harry's - children).

That has happened before: when George V issued his Letters Patent of 1917 specifying who was entitled to the title of British Princes and Princesses (children, male-line grandchildren of the Monarch, and the eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales), several royals who had been British Princes and Princesses were ones no more.

Those royals were:
- John Leopold, Hereditary Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (great-grandson of Queen Victoria)
- Prince Hubertus of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (great-grandson of Queen Victoria)
- Prince Alastair, 2nd Duke of Connaught and Strathearn (great-grandson of Queen Victoria)
- Prince Ernest Augustus IV, Prince of Hanover (great-great-great-grandson of George III)
- Prince George William of Hanover (great-great-great-grandson of George III)

- Princess Sibylla of Saxe-Coburg und Gotha (great-granddaughter of Queen Victoria)
- Princess Caroline Mathilde of Saxe-Coburg und Gotha (great-granddaughter of Queen Victoria)
- Princess Frederica of Hanover (great-granddaughter of George III)
- Princess Marie Louise of Hanover and Cumberland (great-great-granddaughter of George III)
- Princess Alexandra of Hanover and Cumberland (great-great-granddaughter of George III)
- Princess Olga of Hanover and Cumberland (great-great-granddaughter of George III)
- Princess Fredrica of Hanover and Brunswick-Luneburg (great-great-great-granddaughter of George III)
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  #1628  
Old 11-18-2012, 06:37 PM
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Artemesia - that is very interesting - I had no idea. But do you think that it was more about distancing the BRF from the germanic background rather than merely reducing those holding titles?

IMO, I don't think Charles would take away the titles from the Yorks. IT could cause a major rift in the family.
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  #1629  
Old 11-18-2012, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post


Artemesia - that is very interesting - I had no idea. But do you think that it was more about distancing the BRF from the germanic background rather than merely reducing those holding titles?

IMO, I don't think Charles would take away the titles from the Yorks. IT could cause a major rift in the family.
Well HH Prince Alistar of Connaught, grandson of 1st Duke of Connaught, suffered the same fate under the 1917 Lettiers Patent. He ceased being a British prince and became Lord Macduff. Until his death he was heir to both the Connaught & Strathern dukedoms through his father and to his mothers Fife dukedom.
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  #1630  
Old 11-18-2012, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
Thanks, but...If she were the daughter of a peer, wouldn't she be Lady Gaga, rather than Lady Finger (assuming she was named
Gaga Finger)? Would Sophie ever be called Lady Wessex?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that although a non-royal countess would be addressed as Lady xxx, in the case of The Countess of Wessex, she would be properly addressed as Your Royal Highness rather than my lady, wouldn't she?
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  #1631  
Old 11-18-2012, 06:49 PM
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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that although a non-royal countess would be addressed as Lady xxx, in the case of The Countess of Wessex, she would be properly addressed as Your Royal Highness rather than my lady, wouldn't she?
you are correct.
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  #1632  
Old 11-18-2012, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post


Artemesia - that is very interesting - I had no idea. But do you think that it was more about distancing the BRF from the germanic background rather than merely reducing those holding titles?

IMO, I don't think Charles would take away the titles from the Yorks. IT could cause a major rift in the family.
I would definitely agree that it was a measure to distance the British Royal Family from their German relatives. At about the same time as the Letters Patent 1917, Titles Deprivation Act 1917 was passed (unlike the former, it was not an LP but an Act of the Parliament), which ordered those who had born arms against the United Kingdom and/or its allies during World War I to be deprived of their British titles (peerage and royal alike).

At the same time, the Letters Patent of 1917 was one of the first documents which very clearly defined who was entitled to which titles and styles. Just think of it, before the LP, a great-great-great-granddaughter of a Monarch (such as Frederica of Hanover and Brunswick-Luneburg) was entitled to the title of a British Princess.

While I doubt Charles will actually strip his nieces of their royal titles, I think some sort of Letters Patent will be passed though; downsizing the Royal Family is not just a whim of Charles - it is a necessity in our times. Perhaps the changes will not concern living members of the Royal Family but only Charles' own descendants.
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  #1633  
Old 11-18-2012, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post


Artemesia - that is very interesting - I had no idea. But do you think that it was more about distancing the BRF from the germanic background rather than merely reducing those holding titles?

IMO, I don't think Charles would take away the titles from the Yorks. IT could cause a major rift in the family.
I think things are not entirely cordial now () and would get much colder.

How do you think the public in Britain would take it, if Beatrice and Eugenie were "unmade" princesses. Would it be overwhelmingly liked, loathed or would it be no big deal?
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  #1634  
Old 11-18-2012, 07:08 PM
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My guess is it would be no big deal for the public if they ceased to be HRH and princess. They might even like it themselves and feel the loss would give them more opportunities to live their own lives, although I doubt their father would like it and no doubt the DM would have a field day writing stories about family discord.
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  #1635  
Old 11-18-2012, 07:16 PM
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At the moment, the general public are more concerned about costs. They do not believe that royals who make no public contribution by way of royal duties should have any public money either directly or indirectly (ie protection officers). At present I think the public believe they are funding, in some way, these 2 girls hence the negative comments which appear.

I think Charles would risk looking rather mean/petty if he did this (even though the Yorks are not universally popular) which would not help his cause with those who are unsure about his suitability to be monarch.

IT seems unnecessary anyway because the Yorks children will not be HRH's and I dont think titles would be offered either. The Wessex children don't use their HRH's and probably never will.

Setting in place limitations on the "royals" in the future and giving real clarity on expenditure would be a good start for him.
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  #1636  
Old 11-19-2012, 12:30 PM
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How does Prince Michael hold the title of prince and HRH? The reason I ask is because his grand father was died at the time of his birth so I thought that the 1917 rules say he could not hold this title.
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  #1637  
Old 11-19-2012, 12:34 PM
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Michael is a male line grandson of a monarch so under the 1917 Letters Patent he is a Prince of the United Kingdom. It is not necessary for the monarch to still be alive for the male line grandchild to be an HRH.
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  #1638  
Old 11-19-2012, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Michael is a male line grandson of a monarch so under the 1917 Letters Patent he is a Prince of the United Kingdom. It is not necessary for the monarch to still be alive for the male line grandchild to be an HRH.
Thank you so much I was thinking that his grandfather had to be alive! Thanks again
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  #1639  
Old 11-19-2012, 02:47 PM
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In fact of the grandchildren of King George V who hold the HRH only 3 of the 7 were born during his reign - Elizabeth, Margaret and Edward of Kent - the others Alexandra and Michael of Kent, and William and Richard of Gloucester were all born after his death.

Margaret and William are now deceased while Edward and Richard are better known as TRH The Dukes of Gloucester and Kent.
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  #1640  
Old 11-19-2012, 03:09 PM
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I agree with slimming down the Royal family, and I also agree with changing LP to making the title of British Prince and Princess to a select few. I cannot see Charles changing it so Harry's children would not be HRH, but I could be wrong.

I can't ever see the Wessex children choosing to use their HRH style when they turn 18. They have been raised out of the limelight, and will probably have seen how Peter and Zara's lives are and want to continue in that way. As much as I wish we could call them Princess Louise and Prince James, I understand the reasoning behind their parents' choice.

Regarding the York Princesses losing their title, I only asked because I wondered how it would be accepted in the family if they were "stripped" of their title. If we are to believe the paper's, Andrew was not overly impressed at not being included in the Diamond Jubilee carriage procession or balcony appearance, so I can't imagine he would take too kindly to his daughter's losing their titles...I could be wrong though and have misread Andrew completely.
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