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  #1561  
Old 10-24-2012, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster View Post
Actually it looks like Earl and Countess of Wessex have children with the names Edward and Sophie :) "Leurs Altesses Royales le Prince Edward et la Princesse Sophie de Wessex"
Do royal houses never check proper titles of their invitees? There were some weird mistakes like these at the guest list of both CP Voctoria's wedding and QMargerhe's 70th Birthday Celebrations.
http://www.monarchie.lu/pictures/pho...religieuse.pdf
I noticed they called them Prince and Princess of Wessex. Ridiculous error, and like you mentioned - it was not the only error in the guest list. I sincerely hope when they received their invitation it had their correct titles on it! As much as I wish our British wives received the Princess title upon their marriage like other Royal families do, they should respect Edward and Sophie and use their correct styles and titles. I think people refer to them as The Duke and Duchess of Wessex a lot, primarily because they assumed that Edward is a Duke like his brothers.
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  #1562  
Old 10-24-2012, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly2101 View Post
As much as I wish our British wives received the Princess title upon their marriage like other Royal families do,.
Don't they already receive the courtesy title of princess through their husbands? Like Princess Michael of Kent. And isn't Catherine technically Princess William, Duchess of Cambridge? I realize they are not made princesses in their own right but most women marrying into other European royal families are not made princesses in their own right either. Princess Maxima is one exception and I believe maybe Princess Mathilde.
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  #1563  
Old 10-24-2012, 11:19 AM
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They do have the Princess style from their husband (Princess Charles, Princess Edward and Princess William) but you are right, they are not a Princess in their own right. Princess Maxima is an exception, but what about Princess Mary, Princess Marie, Princess Claire (Prince Laurent of Belgium's wife) and Princess Mabel (Prince Frisco of the Netherland's wife)? They became "Princess" upon their marriages.

It is just British tradition that the wives of Prince's do not become a Princess, but it is a shame as i'd love to have a Princess Sophie or Princess Catherine, though Catherine will no doubt be referred to as Princess anyway.
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"I am yours, you are mine, of that be sure. You are locked in my heart, the little key is lost and now you must stay there forever."
Written by Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in the diary of her fiance, Tsarevich Nicholas.
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  #1564  
Old 10-24-2012, 02:10 PM
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It's simply a matter of styling. They do become Princesses automatically with marriage as a Royal Highness. In most cases, their husband is a Peer, so their titles reflect the feminine form of the Peerage, but with royal rank.
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  #1565  
Old 10-24-2012, 04:55 PM
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So The Duke of Windsor was right....


The Queen Mother was the power behind the throne.
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  #1566  
Old 10-25-2012, 03:33 AM
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In Britain a wife takes her husband's styles and titles when they are higher than their own in their own right so the wives of British princes are princesses but if their husband has a title in his own right then his wife will be known by that title rather than the style of Princess.

The present Duchess of Gloucester, when she first married was known as HRH Princess Richard of Gloucester but when her father-in-law died and her husband became HRH The Duke of Gloucester she was raised to the title of wife of a peer of the realm rather than the wife of a younger son.
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  #1567  
Old 10-26-2012, 06:14 AM
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The Queen is a traditionalist who will not override the LP of her grandfather, King George V, in regards to granting princely titles to the younger children of William & Kate. I have no doubt that they'll stay Lord & Lady until Charles or William ascends the throne.
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  #1568  
Old 10-26-2012, 06:27 AM
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George VI was no less a traditionalist, and yet he issued Letters Patent granting the children of the Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh the style of Royal Highness and title of Princes/Princesses. If he hadn't done so, Charles would have been (Lord Charles) The Earl of Merioneth and Anne - Lady Anne Mountbatten.

Personally, I have no doubts that should the Duchess of Cambridge's first child be a girl, or if her second child is born during the reign of Queen Elizabeth, then appropriate Letters Parent will be issued.
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  #1569  
Old 10-26-2012, 08:20 AM
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There's a difference... George VI's heir was his daughter and under long established tradition & practice grandchildren in the female line were not entitled to the status of British princes & princesses with the style of HRH. King George VI was 51 yrs old when his daughter, the present Queen married. He was unlikely to have a son who would displace Elizabeth in the line of succession. Therefore, granting royal & princely rank to her children were not unreasonable given she would be the next Sovereign.


When I said Her Majesty was a traditionalist, what I meant was if William & Kate's first child is indeed a son, he would automatically be a Prince under LP of George V. The immediate need to issue new LP granting his & Kate's younger children (if born in The Queen's reign) royal status would be unnecessary seeing as they would attain that rank in due course. Now on the other hand with full primogeniture being the established norm in most all European monarchies, and the UK's attempts to legalize it within the next couple years, I can see Her Majesty granting the title of Princess and HRH to William & Kate's eldest child, if she is a daughter.
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  #1570  
Old 10-26-2012, 08:41 AM
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We'll have to wait and see, but The Queen is likely to issue Letters Patent if their first-born child is a daughter, assuming all of the Commonwealth Crown nations have passed appropriate legislation changing the succession to equal primogeniture.

Otherwise, there is no particular reason to do so since all of William's children will automatically become HRH in due course.
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  #1571  
Old 10-26-2012, 09:08 AM
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My personal opinion on this is, if their first born child is a girl, Letters Patent will be issued and make her a royal highness and princess, otherwise I think HM will follow the 1917 Letters Patent.
If HM doesn't make a first born girl a princess, even without equal primogeniture, the PC brigade will be out in force ranting and raving.
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  #1572  
Old 10-26-2012, 09:37 AM
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When British subject Christopher O'Neill marries HRH Princess Madeleine of Sweden, he probably will according to Swedish custom sharing her titles and become The Duke of Helsingland and Gästrikland. According to British law, British subjects need Letters Patent by the queen to use foreign titles in Britain and gain social precedence according to that.

I don't think she will recognize a potential Royal Highness - he could become a Swedish subject, after all, if he cared for that (if he gets that HRH at all!). But it could well be that she recognizes his rank and precedence at least like that of the son of a duke. Or nothing at all, as in in Britain the husband of a Duchess in her own right does not share his wife's title and rank. We'll see.

How do the US recognize foreign titles of American spouses of foreign nobles?
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  #1573  
Old 10-26-2012, 09:38 AM
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That is what I was saying all along. The eldest daughter I can see The Queen granting her princely rank. But if their first child is a son, they'll stay Lord & Lady.

When did the British monarch stop recognizing foreign titles? I'm assuming it was in 1917 when George V abandoned all German titles for him & his extended family.
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  #1574  
Old 10-26-2012, 09:54 AM
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I think a Royal Warrant was issued in 1932 that put an end to foreign titles in Britain but I'm not 100 percent sure. Someone else can correct me.
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  #1575  
Old 10-26-2012, 10:18 AM
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The reason I ask is because up until WWII all foreign titles were recognized; Saxe-Coburg Gothas, Tecks, Battenbergs, & Schleswig-Holstein etc...
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  #1576  
Old 10-26-2012, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHThePrince View Post
When did the British monarch stop recognizing foreign titles? I'm assuming it was in 1917 when George V abandoned all German titles for him & his extended family.
Yes that was the beginning of the end in 1917. I don't think the process was fully completed until the warrant of 1932 but again I can't be 100 percent sure.
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  #1577  
Old 10-26-2012, 10:24 AM
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I gotta surprise for you:


http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...n)?view=Binary
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  #1578  
Old 10-26-2012, 10:29 AM
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In 1917 , An Act to deprive Enemy Peers and Princes of British Dignities and Titles was passed and also in 1917 a series of Royal Warrants and LP were issued to grant peerages to German relatives who lost their German styles and titles (I think haha)

By 1932 all foreign titles were out by Royal Warrant. I'm looking for a link on the British Monarchy website to confirm this.
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  #1579  
Old 10-26-2012, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
When British subject Christopher O'Neill marries HRH Princess Madeleine of Sweden, he probably will according to Swedish custom sharing her titles and become The Duke of Helsingland and Gästrikland. According to British law, British subjects need Letters Patent by the queen to use foreign titles in Britain and gain social precedence according to that.

I don't think she will recognize a potential Royal Highness - he could become a Swedish subject, after all, if he cared for that (if he gets that HRH at all!). But it could well be that she recognizes his rank and precedence at least like that of the son of a duke. Or nothing at all, as in in Britain the husband of a Duchess in her own right does not share his wife's title and rank. We'll see.
It was stated in the engagement interview that Chris won't apply or receive Swedish citizenship. He will remain a British/American dual citizen. He also won't receive an HRH, if we are to go by what would have happened with Madeleine's first engagement.

Quote:
How do the US recognize foreign titles of American spouses of foreign nobles?
Americans may hold foreign titles and receive orders personally as long as they do not represent the United States, i.e. Representatives and Senators or the President of the United States. Chris would legally hold the male equivalent of his wife's titles in the US but (due to societal norms in America) he won't use them nor would any American call him by his titles -- unless of course they are a royal watcher.

Hope that helps.
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  #1580  
Old 10-26-2012, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHThePrince View Post
I don't think this applies to the actual case when the British subject is actually a member (even by marriage) of a foreign reigning Royal House.
When HRH princess Katerine of Greece and Denmark married a British commoner and became a British citizen, she was given Letters Patent which allowed her to enjoy the style and ranke of a (British) duke's daughter in Britain, so she became in Britain Lady Katerine Brandram while in the rest of the world she was known as HRH Princess Katerine of Greece and Denmark.

In case of the future Duke of H&G it could be eg that he personally gets the precedence of a younger son of a Royal duke (that is: before the peers, but after the British Royals) when in company of his wife eg. - something similar must exist for the husbands of British princesses? Otherwise Sir Timothy couldn't eg sit next to his wife HRH The Princess Royal?
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