The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1541  
Old 10-15-2012, 07:43 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHThePrince View Post
Other than for members of the Royal Family, does The Queen need permission from the Prime Minister to create peerages? I know the Sovereign is Fount of Honour, but I was led to believe she only create titles under the express advice of the PM.
In law, The Queen does not need to consult her Ministers to create a Peerage as this is a power within the sole perogative of The Sovereign. In practice, it has been done since the reign of Edward VII because the creation of new Peers in the House of Lords by the Crown was abused in the past to influence the direction of the Government. But this is a non-issue with the reform of the Lords in 1999.

I agree there will never be another Dukedom created outside of the royal family. The last time this was considered was for Winston Churchill after his final retirement from politics and it was understood beforehand he would decline it.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1542  
Old 10-15-2012, 07:46 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Houston, United States
Posts: 75
You said... "She does not need to consult her ministers to create a peerage as this is a power within the sole prerogative of The Sovereign".

Both you and I know that the moment The Queen goes against the consultation or advice of her PM it'll cause a constitutional crisis. True enough the Sovereign is the only one who can legally create hereditary or life peerages, but as a constitutional monarchy she "reigns by right of parliament" and cedes most of her royal prerogatives to her ministers.

Like King Edward VII exclaimed... "I'm just a rubber stamp. What duties am I allowed to fulfill? Just open ceremony... I ride first in the parade".
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1543  
Old 10-15-2012, 07:58 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,731
Well, that's the point. It is possible, but in practice, The Sovereign does notify the Government of their intent and that includes titles for members of the royal family.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1544  
Old 10-15-2012, 08:01 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Houston, United States
Posts: 75
Okay but we know that. Her power to grant peerages to members of the Royal Family isn't an issue for the government. However, her discretion to grant titles to non members of the RF is blocked by ministers...as titles are now granted mostly due to political affiliation.

I just feel the prestige of the monarchy is slowly dwindling because of too much political involvement.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1545  
Old 10-15-2012, 09:53 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHThePrince View Post
No need to thank me. I just feel the prestige of the monarchy is slowly dwindling because of too much political involvement.
Actually I think the removal of real political power from the monarch actually increased the prestige of the monarchy. No one wants political power in the hands of someone they had no part putting into power. Since the monarch has no political power they cannot be blamed for government screw ups, but can remain safely above politics as the symbol of the nation.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1546  
Old 10-15-2012, 09:55 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHThePrince
Okay but we know that. Her power to grant peerages to members of the Royal Family isn't an issue for the government. However, her discretion to grant titles to non members of the RF is blocked by ministers...as titles are now granted mostly due to political affiliation.
I disagree. Like many of Britain's constitutional traditions, the granting of hereditary peerages has evolved to a generally accepted principle whereby the practice is limited to sons of The Sovereign or the eldest son of the heir upon marriage. Life peerages are granted upon advice from the Prime Minister to the Crown. There is no reason to grant titles other than for those reasons, especially since the House of Lords reforms resulted in the end of hereditary Peers' rights.

No one is stopping The Queen from granting titles as she obviously accepts the guidelines as appropriate to today's society and Britain's parliamentary democracy.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1547  
Old 10-15-2012, 11:40 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Houston, United States
Posts: 75
Basically, hereditary peerages are out-- no longer granted except to members of the RF. I think an exception should be made to retiring Prime Ministers. The work that they do leave a lasting effect on the United Kingdom & its people... as such hereditary peerages should be awarded to them for service. Of course not a dukedom, but at least an earldom or viscountcy.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1548  
Old 10-19-2012, 03:11 AM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,092
Apparently The Duke and Duchess of Wessex are attending the Luxembourg wedding this weekend, anybody know who these people are?
I can except maiden names etc and no title at all but really?! It's like calling Camilla The Queen.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #1549  
Old 10-19-2012, 06:53 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 1,392
Actually it looks like Earl and Countess of Wessex have children with the names Edward and Sophie :) "Leurs Altesses Royales le Prince Edward et la Princesse Sophie de Wessex"
Do royal houses never check proper titles of their invitees? There were some weird mistakes like these at the guest list of both CP Voctoria's wedding and QMargerhe's 70th Birthday Celebrations.
http://www.monarchie.lu/pictures/pho...religieuse.pdf
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1550  
Old 10-19-2012, 02:25 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Top End, Australia
Posts: 308
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHThePrince View Post
I think an exception should be made to retiring Prime Ministers. The work that they do leave a lasting effect on the United Kingdom & its people... as such hereditary peerages should be awarded to them for service.
I agree the work a Prime Minister does has a lasting effect - but the work their children and grandchildren do does not (with few exceptions). That's the point. A life peerage or a knighthood rewards the person who performs the outstanding work in whatever field, the hereditary peerage ultimately "rewards" someone who doesn't.

I think the decision to remove hereditary peerages was the correct one.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1551  
Old 10-24-2012, 01:13 AM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Houston, United States
Posts: 75
I read years ago that Queen Elizabeth II considered reversing her father's decision and grant Wallis, Duchess of Windsor the style of Royal Highness? However, not to upset her mother she decided against it. Is this true?


Is was also said The Queen cried at the Duchess's funeral... I wonder was it a feeling of guilt..
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1552  
Old 10-24-2012, 08:20 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,731
It is generally thought The Queen was willing to do it as public opinion in the mid-60s was overwhelming in favor and the press was increasingly sympathetic to the cause. But her mother remained adamantly opposed and The Queen wasn't going to force her into an uncomfortable position over it.

I'm sure The Queen herself had mixed feelings about The Duchess.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1553  
Old 10-24-2012, 11:05 AM
Molly2101's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster View Post
Actually it looks like Earl and Countess of Wessex have children with the names Edward and Sophie :) "Leurs Altesses Royales le Prince Edward et la Princesse Sophie de Wessex"
Do royal houses never check proper titles of their invitees? There were some weird mistakes like these at the guest list of both CP Voctoria's wedding and QMargerhe's 70th Birthday Celebrations.
http://www.monarchie.lu/pictures/pho...religieuse.pdf
I noticed they called them Prince and Princess of Wessex. Ridiculous error, and like you mentioned - it was not the only error in the guest list. I sincerely hope when they received their invitation it had their correct titles on it! As much as I wish our British wives received the Princess title upon their marriage like other Royal families do, they should respect Edward and Sophie and use their correct styles and titles. I think people refer to them as The Duke and Duchess of Wessex a lot, primarily because they assumed that Edward is a Duke like his brothers.
__________________
"I am yours, you are mine, of that be sure. You are locked in my heart, the little key is lost and now you must stay there forever."
Written by Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in the diary of her fiance, Tsarevich Nicholas.
Reply With Quote
  #1554  
Old 10-24-2012, 11:13 AM
Noble Consort Ming's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Detroit, United States
Posts: 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly2101 View Post
As much as I wish our British wives received the Princess title upon their marriage like other Royal families do,.
Don't they already receive the courtesy title of princess through their husbands? Like Princess Michael of Kent. And isn't Catherine technically Princess William, Duchess of Cambridge? I realize they are not made princesses in their own right but most women marrying into other European royal families are not made princesses in their own right either. Princess Maxima is one exception and I believe maybe Princess Mathilde.
__________________
How can I dislike the Vasas for running my country when their babies are so cute!
Reply With Quote
  #1555  
Old 10-24-2012, 11:19 AM
Molly2101's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,549
They do have the Princess style from their husband (Princess Charles, Princess Edward and Princess William) but you are right, they are not a Princess in their own right. Princess Maxima is an exception, but what about Princess Mary, Princess Marie, Princess Claire (Prince Laurent of Belgium's wife) and Princess Mabel (Prince Frisco of the Netherland's wife)? They became "Princess" upon their marriages.

It is just British tradition that the wives of Prince's do not become a Princess, but it is a shame as i'd love to have a Princess Sophie or Princess Catherine, though Catherine will no doubt be referred to as Princess anyway.
__________________
"I am yours, you are mine, of that be sure. You are locked in my heart, the little key is lost and now you must stay there forever."
Written by Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in the diary of her fiance, Tsarevich Nicholas.
Reply With Quote
  #1556  
Old 10-24-2012, 02:10 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,731
It's simply a matter of styling. They do become Princesses automatically with marriage as a Royal Highness. In most cases, their husband is a Peer, so their titles reflect the feminine form of the Peerage, but with royal rank.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1557  
Old 10-24-2012, 04:55 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Houston, United States
Posts: 75
So The Duke of Windsor was right....


The Queen Mother was the power behind the throne.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1558  
Old 10-25-2012, 03:33 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 8,371
In Britain a wife takes her husband's styles and titles when they are higher than their own in their own right so the wives of British princes are princesses but if their husband has a title in his own right then his wife will be known by that title rather than the style of Princess.

The present Duchess of Gloucester, when she first married was known as HRH Princess Richard of Gloucester but when her father-in-law died and her husband became HRH The Duke of Gloucester she was raised to the title of wife of a peer of the realm rather than the wife of a younger son.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1559  
Old 10-26-2012, 06:14 AM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Houston, United States
Posts: 75
The Queen is a traditionalist who will not override the LP of her grandfather, King George V, in regards to granting princely titles to the younger children of William & Kate. I have no doubt that they'll stay Lord & Lady until Charles or William ascends the throne.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #1560  
Old 10-26-2012, 06:27 AM
Artemisia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,425


George VI was no less a traditionalist, and yet he issued Letters Patent granting the children of the Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh the style of Royal Highness and title of Princes/Princesses. If he hadn't done so, Charles would have been (Lord Charles) The Earl of Merioneth and Anne - Lady Anne Mountbatten.

Personally, I have no doubts that should the Duchess of Cambridge's first child be a girl, or if her second child is born during the reign of Queen Elizabeth, then appropriate Letters Parent will be issued.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
british royal family, consort, spouse, styles and titles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children Aussie Princess Prince Harry and Prince William 1110 07-12-2014 10:00 PM
Questions About [non-British] Styles and Titles Lord Sosnowitz Royal Ceremony and Protocol 717 05-17-2014 05:44 PM
Diana's Styles and Titles florawindsor Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 573 11-14-2013 10:59 AM
Styles and Titles Nahla10 Ruling Family of Dubai 36 08-08-2013 12:05 PM
Abdication Beatrix and Inauguration WA: Titles, Names, Succession, Precedence Princess Robijn Abdication & Inauguration 2013 67 05-24-2013 03:14 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events engagement fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri habsburg hohenzollern infanta sofia jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg ottoman pom president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince felix prince floris prince joachim prince pieter-christiaan princess princess aimee princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess claire princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marie princess mary princess of asturias queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia spain state visit sweden wedding william winter olympics 2014


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:01 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]