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  #1441  
Old 10-05-2012, 07:06 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
IMHO you are mistaken in that matter.

Prince Phillip had to be created Prince of the United Kingdom because he renounced his old Titel, so he could be made an english subject and took the name 'Mountbatten' from his Uncle.

No such thing was neccesary for Princesse Marina, as she did NOT renounce her Titel and Name

She didn't have to renounce her Greek and Danish titles to marry into the BRF.

She was always Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark but not Princess Marina of the UK. She did become Princess George of the UK but not Princess Marina of the UK.

Philip was different because he chose to renounce his Greek and Danish titles to enable him to take out British citizenship. This was done to help him in his career as much as for the possibility of his future marriage to Elizabeth.

Marina became a British subject on marriage but never renounced her Greek and Danish citizenship as well. Philip did renounce his citizenship of Greece and Denmark and so stopped being a Prince of Greece and Denmark and then in 1957 Elizabeth created him a Prince of the UK.
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  #1442  
Old 10-05-2012, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
IMHO you are mistaken in that matter.

Prince Phillip had to be created Prince of the United Kingdom because he renounced his old Titel, so he could be made an english subject and took the name 'Mountbatten' from his Uncle.

No such thing was necessary for Princess Marina, as she did NOT renounce her Title and Name

Prince Philip was already a British subject because of the Sophia Naturalization Act. Many people are of the belief that Philip did not give up his Greek and Danish titles,because there is no paper trail to prove he did.
Prince Philip
, his children and male-line grandchildren are Princes/Princesses of Greece and Denmark, in addition to any other titles they may hold.
If I'm wrong then someone show me proof he renounced his Danish and Greeks titles.
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  #1443  
Old 10-05-2012, 07:39 PM
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Even if Prince Philip renounced his rights of succession to the Greek throne, it was not enacted under Greek law.
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  #1444  
Old 10-05-2012, 07:51 PM
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By LP of 1947 Lt Sir Philip Mountbatten was granted the style of Royal Highness, and he was created Duke of Edinburgh the following day. He was in the anomalous position of being a Royal Highness but not a Prince, although the normal association of the two styles led to some confusion on the matter. Garter stated that "I believe he remains a Prince of Greece and Denmark though naturalized here." (Garter, 19 Dec 1947 LC0 6/3677).
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  #1445  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:03 PM
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Did King George VI have a reason for withholding the title of a British prince from Philip? He renounced his princely Greek title.
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  #1446  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:11 PM
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The King was under the false impression since he gave Philip the style of HRH that he was indeed a prince but this was not the case and the King consulted Garter King of Arms and the home office for clarification.
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  #1447  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:35 PM
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So once it was clarified why didn't George VI issue new letters patent correcting his mistake. It seems it was intentional. I read in a book that Earl Mountbatten asked George to create Philip a prince & he refused.... a refusal he also gave when Philip wanted to first court Elizabeth. Again, courtiers did not think he was good enough for her. Whose to say he probably withheld the title of Prince of the UK because he wasn't sure if the marriage would last?
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  #1448  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl
My point is they were both style as princesses without the need for LPs. HM's will and pleasure was all that was required.
Correct. Both Alice and Marina were automatically Princesses as wives of sons of The Sovereign. Even though Marina was born a princess, this had no recognition in the UK where she was "HRH The Princess George The Duchess of Kent" upon marriage.

As widows, The Queen allowed her aunts to assume a style to which they normally were not entitled, but no Letters Patent were necessary as this did not change their status.
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  #1449  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRHThePrince
Did King George VI have a reason for withholding the title of a British prince from Philip? He renounced his princely Greek title.
He believed Philip should be a royal Duke, but not a Prince of the UK, because he wanted The Princess Elizabeth to have precedence as the heiress presumptive. The Queen rectified this in 1957, even though Philip didn't particularly care about it.
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  #1450  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHThePrince View Post
So once it was clarified why didn't George VI issue new letters patent correcting his mistake. It seems it was intentional. I read in a book that Earl Mountbatten asked George to create Philip a prince & he refused.... a refusal he also gave when Philip wanted to first court Elizabeth. Again, courtiers did not think he was good enough for her. Whose to say he probably withheld the title of Prince of the UK because he wasn't sure if the marriage would last?
I doubt there was even the thought in his head that the marriage wouldn't last. There was absolutely no way the Queen would have divorced, even if the marriage was unhappy, which thankfully it isn't.

It's probably more that there was no precedent for bestowing that title upon him.
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  #1451  
Old 10-05-2012, 11:14 PM
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She would've had precedence over Philip regardless as she was the heiress presumptive to the British Throne. Though Philip was an extended member of the Royal Family by blood, he was only an immediate member through marriage. Gentlemen whether a prince or not who marry British princesses do not gain precedence through their wives. Their precedence is decided by will of the Sovereign under a Royal Warrant of Precedence.
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  #1452  
Old 10-06-2012, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
Prince Philip was already a British subject because of the Sophia Naturalization Act. Many people are of the belief that Philip did not give up his Greek and Danish titles,because there is no paper trail to prove he did.
Prince Philip, his children and male-line grandchildren are Princes/Princesses of Greece and Denmark, in addition to any other titles they may hold.
If I'm wrong then someone show me proof he renounced his Danish and Greeks titles.

There is no paper trail as such although supposedly there is a letter from Philip to the King of Greece to which the King agreed with Philip renouncing his Greek and Danish titles.

However is and his descendents ceased to be Princes/Princess of Denmark under the 1953 Danish constitution which limited that right to descendents of a later King than Christian IX and they also ceased to be Princes of Greece when the Greeks became a republic.
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  #1453  
Old 10-06-2012, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
There is no paper trail as such although supposedly there is a letter from Philip to the King of Greece to which the King agreed with Philip renouncing his Greek and Danish titles.

However is and his descendents ceased to be Princes/Princess of Denmark under the 1953 Danish constitution which limited that right to descendents of a later King than Christian IX and they also ceased to be Princes of Greece when the Greeks became a republic.
I stand corrected. Did the 1953 Danish Constitution limit succession to the Danish throne or the right to be called Princes of Greece and Denmark?
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  #1454  
Old 10-06-2012, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
By LP of 1947 Lt Sir Philip Mountbatten was granted the style of Royal Highness, and he was created Duke of Edinburgh the following day. He was in the anomalous position of being a Royal Highness but not a Prince, although the normal association of the two styles led to some confusion on the matter. Garter stated that "I believe he remains a Prince of Greece and Denmark though naturalized here." (Garter, 19 Dec 1947 LC0 6/3677).
And what about this statement from Garter where he states "I believe he remains a Prince of Greece and Denmark though naturalized here." although I guess that is before 1953.
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  #1455  
Old 10-06-2012, 07:39 AM
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You truly know your styles and titles Iluvbertie
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  #1456  
Old 10-06-2012, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
I stand corrected. Did the 1953 Danish Constitution limit succession to the Danish throne or the right to be called Princes of Greece and Denmark?
Basically Prince of Greece and Denmark is a Greek title so changes in Denmark have no effect on its usage. The 1953 Constitution did remove the Greeks from succession to the Danish throne. Even the children of Queen Anne Marie do not have succession rights in Denmark.
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  #1457  
Old 10-06-2012, 09:23 PM
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New topic. During the brief time that Elizabeth II was crowned, the Queen Mother was the Queen Dowager, and Queen Mary was still alive, what was Queen Mary's title?
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  #1458  
Old 10-06-2012, 09:29 PM
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Her Majesty Queen Mary.

The Queen Mother was Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Dowager/The Queen Mother or both.

The Queen was simply Her Majesty The Queen.
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  #1459  
Old 10-07-2012, 03:02 PM
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Where can I view the actual LP that created Prince William , Duke of Cambridge?
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  #1460  
Old 10-07-2012, 03:24 PM
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I don't think you can; this is the only thing I found with the 'announcement' Titles announced for Prince William and Catherine Middleton
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