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  #1421  
Old 10-05-2012, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
I have to disagree with you, NGalitzine.
Princess Marina did become Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Kent upon her marriage. However, she also remained a Princess of Greece and Denmark as she was born one. Thus, upon her elder son's wedding she simply reverted to her titles by birth.

Of course, her decision to be known as Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent instead of the tradition The Dowager Duchess of Kent still needed approval from the Queen, which was dully granted in 1961, just before the current Duke and Duchess of Kent's marriage.

Prince Philip is a different case: he relinquished all his foreign titles and styles (unlike Marina, who never did that), so had to be created a Prince anew.
At the time of her death, Princess Marina's full style was: Her Royal Highness Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent, Countess of St. Andrews and Baroness Downpatrick
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  #1422  
Old 10-05-2012, 12:19 PM
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I still think The Queen will give Prince Harry an honour for his service to her and his service in Afghanistan.
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  #1423  
Old 10-05-2012, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I still think The Queen will give Prince Harry an honour for his service to her and his service in Afghanistan.
I don't it but maybe a CVO
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  #1424  
Old 10-05-2012, 12:33 PM
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Is part of the issue with granting anyone with the Order of the Thistle that the Referendum on Independence is due to happen in 2014? Granted the polls remain in favor of union, but should the worst happen it puts granting the Order in a new light.

I always assumed that the Queen (since 1999) was conferring the Order on the parts of the family with a true love of Scotland, and to the heir apparent. When I look at the current knights/ladies membership - the group is overwhelmingly Scottish (educated, resident, working). The Order is not given lightly if you look at the timing of investiture of the current special knights and lady:
  1. The Duke of Edinburgh KG KT OM GBE AC GCL QSO CD PC PC AdC(P) (1952)
  2. The Duke of Rothesay KG KT GCB OM AK QSO CD SOM GCL PC AdC(P) (1977)
  3. The Princess Royal KG KT GCVO QSO GCL CD TC (2000)
  4. The Earl of Strathearn KG KT (2012) (thanks to Wikipedia for this)
Each investiture can be linked to a significant time in their careers. I also think these are the four royals who seem to enjoy Scotland the most.
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  #1425  
Old 10-05-2012, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
At the time of her death, Princess Marina's full style was: Her Royal Highness Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent, Countess of St. Andrews and Baroness Downpatrick
Yes, I am aware of that. However, as with most people only the highest title (Duchess of Kent) was used.
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  #1426  
Old 10-05-2012, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I still think The Queen will give Prince Harry an honour for his service to her and his service in Afghanistan.
I got curious about this. Maybe not if you look at the history of the current "spare." Prince Andrew, Duke of York was not granted an order after he returned from the Falkland War (1982). Here are his Honours and the years granted:

1979 - CVO
2003 - KCVO
2006 - KG
2011 - GCVO

He, as others serving, was decorated for service in the Falklands War (but that's not a Royal Order).

This chat about Orders might belong in another Forum and if so, I apologize in advance.
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  #1427  
Old 10-05-2012, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
Yes, I am aware of that. However, as with most people only the highest title (Duchess of Kent) was used.
You're right as usual
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  #1428  
Old 10-05-2012, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl View Post
You're right as usual
Hardly as usual - NGalitzine proved it just minutes ago.
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  #1429  
Old 10-05-2012, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Foreign titles have no status in the UK and any use of them in the UK required a royal warrant. Marina may never have given up her maiden titles but they had no status in the UK. If Marina had simply reverted to her maiden titles she would have been HRH Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark, Duchess of Kent. While I am sure HM took into consideration Marinas former status, I maintain that in the UK her usage of "Princess" was the same as for Alice, merely a social courtesy because no woman wants to be known as a Dowager, not a recognotion of her Greek titles.
Your knowledge is much appreciated.
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  #1430  
Old 10-05-2012, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I still think The Queen will give Prince Harry an honour for his service to her and his service in Afghanistan.
Giving Harry an honour for service to the Queen is one thing but service in Afghanistan entitles Harry to nothing more than any other serviceman or woman.

It's unlikely everyone who served in Afghanistan would be given an honour other than a campaign medal. Any additional honour will (and should only) be awarded for a particularly meritorious act.
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  #1431  
Old 10-05-2012, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Princess Marina's title of Princess of Greece and Denmark had no status in the UK so her styling as Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent was exactly the same as Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester. It was merely a courtesy granted by the Queen to her aunts. You will note that with her husband she took the time to actually create him a Prince of the United Kingdom since her father had merely granted him the style of HRH with the title of Duke of Edinburgh.
IMHO you are mistaken in that matter.

Prince Phillip had to be created Prince of the United Kingdom because he renounced his old Titel, so he could be made an english subject and took the name 'Mountbatten' from his Uncle.

No such thing was neccesary for Princesse Marina, as she did NOT renounce her Titel and Name
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  #1432  
Old 10-05-2012, 05:11 PM
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^^^^
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

Foreign titles held by British subjects have no status in the UK and would require a royal licence to be officially recognized in the UK. No royal licence has been granted to a British subject to allow the use of a foreign title since 1932. Marina was a British subject.
When Princess Katherine of Greece & Denmark married a British subject and came to live in the UK the King granted her the style of Lady Katherine with the rank of a dukes daughter for use in the UK. She remained a princess in her home country but in the UK she was only Lady Katherine.
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  #1433  
Old 10-05-2012, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
IMHO you are mistaken in that matter.

Prince Phillip had to be created Prince of the United Kingdom because he renounced his old Titel, so he could be made an english subject and took the name 'Mountbatten' from his Uncle.

No such thing was neccesary for Princesse Marina, as she did NOT renounce her Titel and Name

She didn't have to renounce her Greek and Danish titles to marry into the BRF.

She was always Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark but not Princess Marina of the UK. She did become Princess George of the UK but not Princess Marina of the UK.

Philip was different because he chose to renounce his Greek and Danish titles to enable him to take out British citizenship. This was done to help him in his career as much as for the possibility of his future marriage to Elizabeth.

Marina became a British subject on marriage but never renounced her Greek and Danish citizenship as well. Philip did renounce his citizenship of Greece and Denmark and so stopped being a Prince of Greece and Denmark and then in 1957 Elizabeth created him a Prince of the UK.
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  #1434  
Old 10-05-2012, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
IMHO you are mistaken in that matter.

Prince Phillip had to be created Prince of the United Kingdom because he renounced his old Titel, so he could be made an english subject and took the name 'Mountbatten' from his Uncle.

No such thing was necessary for Princess Marina, as she did NOT renounce her Title and Name

Prince Philip was already a British subject because of the Sophia Naturalization Act. Many people are of the belief that Philip did not give up his Greek and Danish titles,because there is no paper trail to prove he did.
Prince Philip
, his children and male-line grandchildren are Princes/Princesses of Greece and Denmark, in addition to any other titles they may hold.
If I'm wrong then someone show me proof he renounced his Danish and Greeks titles.
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  #1435  
Old 10-05-2012, 07:39 PM
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Even if Prince Philip renounced his rights of succession to the Greek throne, it was not enacted under Greek law.
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  #1436  
Old 10-05-2012, 07:51 PM
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By LP of 1947 Lt Sir Philip Mountbatten was granted the style of Royal Highness, and he was created Duke of Edinburgh the following day. He was in the anomalous position of being a Royal Highness but not a Prince, although the normal association of the two styles led to some confusion on the matter. Garter stated that "I believe he remains a Prince of Greece and Denmark though naturalized here." (Garter, 19 Dec 1947 LC0 6/3677).
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  #1437  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:03 PM
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Did King George VI have a reason for withholding the title of a British prince from Philip? He renounced his princely Greek title.
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  #1438  
Old 10-05-2012, 08:11 PM
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The King was under the false impression since he gave Philip the style of HRH that he was indeed a prince but this was not the case and the King consulted Garter King of Arms and the home office for clarification.
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  #1439  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:35 PM
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So once it was clarified why didn't George VI issue new letters patent correcting his mistake. It seems it was intentional. I read in a book that Earl Mountbatten asked George to create Philip a prince & he refused.... a refusal he also gave when Philip wanted to first court Elizabeth. Again, courtiers did not think he was good enough for her. Whose to say he probably withheld the title of Prince of the UK because he wasn't sure if the marriage would last?
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  #1440  
Old 10-05-2012, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke-of-Earl
My point is they were both style as princesses without the need for LPs. HM's will and pleasure was all that was required.
Correct. Both Alice and Marina were automatically Princesses as wives of sons of The Sovereign. Even though Marina was born a princess, this had no recognition in the UK where she was "HRH The Princess George The Duchess of Kent" upon marriage.

As widows, The Queen allowed her aunts to assume a style to which they normally were not entitled, but no Letters Patent were necessary as this did not change their status.
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