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  #121  
Old 03-01-2006, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalProtocol
I think you are mistaken, when a Royal Prince is given a title he uses the title instead of "Prince x" Take for example: The Duke of York, The Earl of Wessex, The Duke of Gloucester and The Duke of Kent. It is not corredt to say HRH The Prince Andrew, Duke of York. The exception is His Royal Highness The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, this is because at the time of his marriage he was given the title HRH The Duke of Edinburgh (having renounced his Greek Title of Prince). However in 1957 HM The Queen granted Him the title of The Prince Philip and this title was added before the Duke of Edinburgh part.
This isn't true, they are styled, HRH The Duke of York, HRH The Earl of Wessex, but their official titles are HRH The Prince Andrew, The Duke of York & HRH The Prince Edward, The Earl of Wessex
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  #122  
Old 03-01-2006, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Robijn
This isn't true, they are styled, HRH The Duke of York, HRH The Earl of Wessex, but their official titles are HRH The Prince Andrew, The Duke of York & HRH The Prince Edward, The Earl of Wessex
I enquired with Buckingham Palace how to officially style Their Royal Highnesses and the form which I posted earlier was indeed correct, They said only their friends used the "prince x" form and officially the Dukedoms granted by the Queen should be used.
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  #123  
Old 03-01-2006, 08:45 AM
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The correct form of address is HRH The Duke of York because royal princes are styled by their peerage. However, Andrew's full legal title remains HRH The Prince Andrew, The Duke of York.

As a son of the sovereign, he is automatically HRH and Prince of the UK as his birthright. Peerages are granted at the will of the Sovereign.
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  #124  
Old 03-01-2006, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalProtocol
The exception is His Royal Highness The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, this is because at the time of his marriage he was given the title HRH The Duke of Edinburgh (having renounced his Greek Title of Prince). However in 1957 HM The Queen granted Him the title of The Prince Philip and this title was added before the Duke of Edinburgh part.
That is incorrect. Philip is generally styled by his full titles because he was granted precedence before all of the princes of the blood royal and next to HM The Queen when granted the titular dignity in 1957 by Parliament.

As a matter of form, he is also addressed by his peerage as HRH The Duke of Edinburgh, the same as his sons and other princes of the blood royal.
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  #125  
Old 03-01-2006, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by branchg
No one ever considered Prince Philip to be anything but royal. In fact, he is more royal than The Queen in Teutonic terms since her mother was technically a commoner as Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon.

By the standards of today's society, the Queen Mother was most certainly a high aristocrat, although not quite as aristocratic as Diana was.
I don't think it matters whether it is today or yesterday..

Both the Queen Mother and Diana came from aristocratic backgrounds.

As for Philip, I agree, he was, is, and will always be royal. But, when he became a naturalized citizen and married the then Princess Elizabeth, the new letters of patent had to be written up so their children would not be born into commoner status taking the precedence of peer's title only without the HRH.
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  #126  
Old 03-01-2006, 07:35 PM
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Most of the Royal spouses come from aristocratic backgrounds. Angus Ogilvy was the son of an Earl, Camilla has extremely Royal ancestry, the Duchess of Kent does too, Princess Michael oozes Royal connections - so I don't think the commoner/Royal thing comes into it much.
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  #127  
Old 03-01-2006, 07:57 PM
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I think it'll come into it more and more, though. The younger royals are living their lives outside the close royal-aristocratic circle far more than previous generations.
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  #128  
Old 03-01-2006, 08:00 PM
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Unfortunately. Chavvy brides seem to be in fashion at the moment where Royalty is concerned.
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  #129  
Old 03-01-2006, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
As for Philip, I agree, he was, is, and will always be royal. But, when he became a naturalized citizen and married the then Princess Elizabeth, the new letters of patent had to be written up so their children would not be born into commoner status taking the precedence of peer's title only without the HRH.
George VI had to issue letters patent granting Elizabeth's children the rank of Royal Highness and Prince/Princess of the UK because under his father's 1917 Letters Patent, only the male-line grandchildren of the Sovereign were entitled to it. There is no consideration in the 1917 Letters Patent for the heir to the throne being female.

It had nothing to do with Prince Philip's status.
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  #130  
Old 03-01-2006, 11:04 PM
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William and Harry are both likely to marry British aristocrats for the sake of the Crown. There will be a lot of pressure on both from the Household to do so.
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  #131  
Old 03-02-2006, 01:25 PM
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Yes, it did in a partial manner, have to also do with his status as a naturalized "commoner".
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  #132  
Old 03-02-2006, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
Yes, it did in a partial manner, have to also do with his status as a naturalized "commoner".
Princess Margaret married a commoner and so did Princess Anne. Their children were styled after their father's surname and/or peerage.

Elizabeth's children were elevated by George VI to HRH and Prince/Princess of the UK because they were the children of a future Sovereign. Nothing more or less.
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  #133  
Old 03-02-2006, 08:53 PM
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It seems a curious oversight that George V didn't foresee a female heir. After all, his grandmother, Victoria, had been one at one time.
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  #134  
Old 03-02-2006, 10:48 PM
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True, but it is within the will of the Sovereign regardless. The Queen offered to elevate Princess Anne's children to the rank of Royal Highness and Prince/Princess of the UK, but both Anne and Mark were in agreement their children would not hold royal rank.

Edward and Sophie also requested their children not hold royal rank, even though The Queen has not yet issued a Royal Warrant or Letters Patent specifically allowing Louise to relinquish her titular dignity or rank as HRH Princess Louise of Wessex.
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  #135  
Old 03-02-2006, 11:20 PM
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No...there was some issue as well with Philip not being an HRH after becoming a naturalized citizen...and then marrying the future queen.

We are BOTH correct...
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  #136  
Old 03-03-2006, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade
No...there was some issue as well with Philip not being an HRH after becoming a naturalized citizen...and then marrying the future queen.

We are BOTH correct...
Philip was HRH before marrying The Queen because George VI made him one prior to the wedding. So she was marrying a person of equal rank.
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  #137  
Old 03-03-2006, 12:58 PM
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Technically yes, but he renounced his title, status, and everything else, when he became a naturalized British subject. He became plain ole' Lt. Philip Mountbatten RN. Therefore in the eyes of the country he was reduced to commoner status. :)

Again, we are both correct...it is not hard to admit.
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  #138  
Old 03-03-2006, 02:49 PM
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branchg and Lady Marmalade,

You seem to be going back and forth with the result of confusing the rest of us. At first it seemed you were in agreement so its hard to figure out the point either of you is arguing.

I hate to use an old debating term but can you restate your opinion and state the reason why you believe the way you do in simple easy words for the rest of us to understand? You should also provide some sources so that we can keep within forum policy.

This is an interesting topic but the way you're going back and forth, its hard to follow and we should really be quoting sources at some point to avoid too much speculation and keep within policy.

Thanks.

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  #139  
Old 03-03-2006, 05:37 PM
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I do not need to have sources in the sense of needing to back up my facts. We are both correct and I will clarify why.

Philip was born an HRH Prince of Greece. When he became a British citizen he relinquished his HRH and title of Prince of Greece.

He then became Lt. Philip Mountbatten RN, commoner...NO royal status recognized by Great Britain.

When he became engaged to the then Princess Elizabeth he was still known as such.

SCENARIO:

Had he NOT been elevated by George VI to HRH Duke of Edinburgh and just remained Philip Mountbatten (and George VI DID NOT issue new Letters of Patent), his children would NOT have had titles even though their mother was the future Queen.

REALITY:

George VI did issues new Letters of Patent and did grant Philip a Dukedom and other lesser titles with the distinction of being an HRH so that his children would have the necessary precedence as children of the heir and future queen should, which as we see, they do.

We were both correct and just more or less creating great dialogue about what could have, and what actually did, happen. :)
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  #140  
Old 03-03-2006, 06:30 PM
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I do not need to have sources in the sense of needing to back up my facts.
If a moderator has asked you for sources, then you do need to have them. Perhaps you could provide a link to a website that explains when Prince Philip gave up his Greek titles and what that meant in terms of his status as a member of the Greek royal family.
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