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  #1101  
Old 02-09-2012, 01:22 AM
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I'm gonna try posting this here now, because I didn't get any responses in the Gay thread...

If Harry were gay, or say one of William's sons is gay and he (or in the case of Harry, Charles) were king, do you think the male partner would receive a title upon marriage? Would they use a lesser title of the royal son? Like Harry would be Duke of Clarence and his partner would be Earl of Wherever? Or do you think that Harry would be given two Dukedoms, say Clarence and Avondale, and one would use Clarence and the other would use Avondale, but their children (permitting new LP's are passed to say that surrugate children are royal) would be of Clarence and Avondale? I know it's kinda out there, but I'm just curious what people think would happen.
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  #1102  
Old 02-09-2012, 01:38 AM
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I think it would be like the Prince Gustav/ Carina Axelsson situation in Denmark (but for different reasons, obviously) whereby they would not marry but would be accepted at social functions and within the family as though they were, thus sidestepping the title issue altogether. If they did marry, I don't see a title being conferred to the spouse...rather, The Duke of X and Mr. Thus and Such, sort of like Mark Phillips and Tim Laurence, who didn't get titles or refused them.

Added: I suppose the ideal situation would be if the spouse were already titled before marriage!
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  #1103  
Old 02-09-2012, 02:20 AM
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When civil partnerships were introduced in the Uk it was said that the civil partner would not share in the other partners title. Rather like Sir Elton John and his civil partner Mr David Furnish.
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  #1104  
Old 02-10-2012, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
When civil partnerships were introduced in the Uk it was said that the civil partner would not share in the other partners title. Rather like Sir Elton John and his civil partner Mr David Furnish.
Yes, but of course, that doesn't mean The Sovereign cannot grant a royal partner their own title as a lifetime peerage.
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  #1105  
Old 02-10-2012, 02:12 PM
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When pondering PrincePatrick's question I was just thinking of the Mark Phillips/Tim Lawrence situations regarding titles and then saw Windsorgirls post! I agree that if someone entered into a civil partnership with a royal, they would retain their own title (i.e. Mr etc). But I do agree with Branchg that the Sovereign could issue a title.
I'm not sure about adopted or surrogate children and what if any their position would be.
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  #1106  
Old 02-10-2012, 04:35 PM
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Adopted children can't inherit titles or associated property but they can't inherit non-associated property e.g. an adopted child of William couldn't become King or inherit Windsor Castle but William could leave personal property to such a child such as Sandringham or Balmoral (yes we know that they have belonged to the monarchs now for over a century but they are private property - George VI had to buy them from Edward VIII after the abdication).

Surrogates would only be acceptable if the child was the biological child of both the parents which isn't possible with two parents of the same gender so again no inheritance rights regarding titles or associated property.

Of course laws can change but regarding titles and inheritance associated with that the biological parentage is important. Harry could do what many other gay men in the royal family have done over the centuries - marry, have the children, and then move onto the male lover (even divorce the wife and have the civil partnership with his lover).
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  #1107  
Old 02-14-2012, 02:47 AM
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My opinion is that if Harry or one of William's sons were gay and entered into a same-sex civil partnership (being in direct succession to the throne), that this partner may very likely be granted a life peerage.. or at least a peerage may be offered to Mr. X, whether he chooses to accept it or not.

If Harry or William's son were HRH The Duke of Clarence, then certainly I could see the partner being Lord X. I could also see a future gay king and his partner being HM The King and HRH The Prince Consort.. or HRH The Princess Royal and Lady X.. this is the 21st century after all, so why not? I've no objection at all to such titles being given to the life partner of a gay royal.. as long as the royal in question were in direct line to the throne and/or becomes sovereign.

In the case of a child being born of a surrogate mother, I think the laws could be changed to allow inheritance when the titleholder is the biological father.. and indeed, I think that is preferable to forcing a heterosexual marriage on a gay man simply for the purpose of procreation or extending the title for another generation. To me that seems rather cruel to both parties of such a "marriage".

Besides, the maternal bloodline is usually not the important one when it comes to the inheritance of a title, but who the father is.. of course, the laws would have to somehow get around the illegitimacy of the surrogate child..
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  #1108  
Old 02-15-2012, 05:47 PM
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Gay Marriage

This is a very interesting topic and has raised some very good points for discussion. I`m quite sure the issue of gay marriage has been discussed at the Palace, the Queen`s advisors are not quite the dinosaurs that popular media would have us believe. Personally, i would go along with the idea of the spouse of the Royal in question having no title, simply because this is the precedent already established by those members of the peerage and Knightage, who are gay, and whose partners/spouses do not share their titles. However, as has already been said, this would not be a perfect solution. If gay marriage is to be regarded as equal to heterosexual marriage, then a Royal prince who married a man may indeed want his husband to share his title, in the same way as his heterosexual brother would share his, on marrying a woman. It is an unknown....
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  #1109  
Old 02-15-2012, 07:01 PM
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Do royals titled TRH get more royal duties/ are more important than royals titled HH of TSH?
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  #1110  
Old 02-15-2012, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Grandduchess24 View Post
Do royals titled TRH get more royal duties/ are more important than royals titled HH of TSH?
In the UK we only have the style HRH. No member of the BRF is styled HH or HSH anymore.
Of Europes current reigning royal families I believe the style of HH only exists in Denmark for junior members of the royal family and in the Netherlands for the sons of Princess Margriet who have the non-hereditary titles of Prince of Orange-Nassau. It may also be used in Norway but I am not sure of the applications there. The style of HSH is used for the reigning princely families of Liechtenstein and Monaco.
As a general rule I would say that the closer you are to the throne the more engagements you undertake.
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  #1111  
Old 02-16-2012, 10:07 PM
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Forgot to post my thanks for all the responses to the Gay Royal Marriage question! Fascinating positions, and I really appreciate the insight!
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  #1112  
Old 02-17-2012, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
It may also be used in Norway but I am not sure of the applications there.
Princesses Astrid,Ragnhild and Martha Louise of Norway are HH after their marriage!
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  #1113  
Old 02-17-2012, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc23 View Post
Princesses Astrid,Ragnhild and Martha Louise of Norway are HH after their marriage!
Yes, but I am not sure if that is only when abroad or if they are styled that way domestically. Does Prince Sverre have any style at all, he is not an HRH.
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  #1114  
Old 02-17-2012, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Yes, but I am not sure if that is only when abroad or if they are styled that way domestically. Does Prince Sverre have any style at all, he is not an HRH.
As per the Norwegian Royal Family site Princesses Märtha Louise,Ragnhild and Astrid all have the style 'Her Highness'.


kongehuset.no - Her Highness Princess Ragnhild

kongehuset.no - Her Highness Princess Ragnhild

kongehuset.no - Her Highness Princess Astrid

Prince Sverre is also styled as 'His Highness Prince Sverre Magnus'

kongehuset.no - His Highness Prince Sverre Magnus
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  #1115  
Old 02-17-2012, 03:26 PM
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Thanks, although I notice when you switch to the Norwegian versions these styles are not applied. Astrid is shown as Princess Astrid, Frau Ferner and Sverre is simple Prince Sverre with no style applied. His parents and elder sister are styled HRH though. That is why I questioned if the styles are applied domestically or not.
Guess this is off topic for a British board and the Norwegians would know better. I have posted the question on the Norwegian thread.
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  #1116  
Old 02-17-2012, 04:15 PM
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I believe the HH title does only apply abroad.
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  #1117  
Old 02-17-2012, 08:36 PM
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The 1917 LPs which limited the HRH in Britain also abolished the HH and HSH titles in Britain. So in Britain you are either HRH or nothing along those lines. Obviously there are other titles such as Dukes, Earls etc that can be held but not HH or HSH.
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  #1118  
Old 02-26-2012, 12:49 AM
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I have a few stupid questions for you, I'm very sorry
After marriage Prince Philip renounced his Greek and Danish royal titles and accepted the title of Duke of Edinburgh, right? Why? I always thought that the title HRH Prince is "higher" than HRH Duke.
Why is Prince Philip not the King? His wife is the Queen and he is the Price by birth. What's the problem?
Thank you
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  #1119  
Old 02-26-2012, 01:05 AM
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Philip renounced his title of Prince of Greece and Denmark and became a British citizen prior to his marriage to the then Princess Elizabeth.
Upon his marriage he was created HRH The Duke of Edinburgh. Philip did not hold the title of a prince of the UK until years later when his wife the Queen bestowed the title on him in 1957. Also, just prior to his marriage he converted from the Greek orthodox church to the Church of England and it was at this time he adopted the surname of Mountbatten.

Philip married into the British line of succession and when Elizabeth became Queen in 1952, it was another 5 years before he was given the title of a Prince of the UK. As Elizabeth is the Queen Regnant, he cannot be King as that title would outrank the Queen.

His former titles prior to marriage have no standing in the UK.
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  #1120  
Old 02-26-2012, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
As Elizabeth is the Queen Regnant, he cannot be King as that title would outrank the Queen.
Thank you so much!
What does it mean? The King title is "stronger" than the Queen title?
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