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  #1081  
Old 12-05-2011, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrik-Jan77 View Post
I have a question about the future titles of the children of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge.
They will take on their father's senior title - so on the death of the Queen they will become 'of Cornwall and Cambridge' (based on the precedent of George V, whose children went from 'of York' to 'of Cornwall and York' in 1901). When, and if Charles creates William Prince of Wales the children would then take 'of Wales' because Prince of Wales is the more senior title to 'Duke of Cornwall' which is senior to 'Duke of Cambridge'. George V's children became 'of Wales' when their father was created Prince of Wales in November 1901.

Just a note - William and Kate's dauthers, under the existing Letters Patent, won't be HRH Princess xxxx as only his eldest son currently will get the HRH Prince title from birth and the others will be titles as the children of a Duke Lord/Lady Mountbatten-Windsor. Then on Charles accession they will become HRH Prince/Princesses.

Of course the Queen could issue new LPs creating all of William's children HRH from birth.
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  #1082  
Old 12-05-2011, 06:30 PM
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What if the eldest child is a girl - would she get the HRH and her sisters the title of ladies? Or would that have to be changed with a new LP?
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  #1083  
Old 12-05-2011, 07:09 PM
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It would have to be changed. Right now, it's only the eldest son.
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  #1084  
Old 12-05-2011, 07:15 PM
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It would take new LPs to give any daughter of William and Kate the HRH Princess title.

Currently the LPs in play are the 1917 LPs which state that the HRHs are - the children of the monarch, the male line grandchildren of the monarch and the eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales.

This means currently:

Children of the monarch - Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward.

Male line grandchildren of the monarch - The Duke of Gloucester The Duke of Kent Prince Michael of Kent Princess Alexandra (male line grandchildren of George V), The Duke of Cambridge, Prince Henry of Wales, Princess Beatrice of York, Princess Eugenie of York (male line grandchildren of Elizabeth II) and then there is Louise and James who aren't using it and there has been debate as to whether or not the announcements from BP were sufficient to deprive them of that title.

Notice that none of the children of Princess Mary, Princess Margaret or Princess Anne (all children of monarchs) have the HRH because they are the children of girls - so no HRH for them. Only males are good enough to pass on the HRH.

When Elizabeth II was pregnant with Charles special LPs were given to allow all her children to be born HRH otherwise Charles would have been born Lord Charles Mountbatten, Earl of Merioneth (a curtesy title from his father) and Anne would have been Lady Anne Mountbatten.

So any girl - regardless of being the eldest child simply doesn't qualify at the moment for HRH - new LPs needed or she would be born Lady xxxx Mountbatten-Windsor while her younger brother would be born HRH Prince yyyy of Cambridge.
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  #1085  
Old 12-05-2011, 08:11 PM
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What about if the law is changed so that the eldest inherits regardless of gender? The spirit of the eldest son of the eldest son LP is that the direct heir would be an HRH. What if the direct heir is a girl? (Assuming no other laws or conditions have been ammended.)
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  #1086  
Old 12-05-2011, 08:58 PM
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I think it's highly likely The Queen will issue Letters Patent providing that all of William and Catherine's children will be HRH Prince/Princess of the UK at birth.

With the change to succession to the throne providing a first-born daughter will take precedence over a son (which is effective for William's issue), it would make sense.
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  #1087  
Old 12-05-2011, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by branchg View Post
I think it's highly likely The Queen will issue Letters Patent providing that all of William and Catherine's children will be HRH Prince/Princess of the UK at birth.

With the change to succession to the throne providing a first-born daughter will take precedence over a son (which is effective for William's issue), it would make sense.
But is there any need to do this? In the normal course of events, would the children not be "elevated" to HRH once Charles ascends the throne?
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  #1088  
Old 12-05-2011, 09:45 PM
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The children of Prince William will not be children of a monarch when Charles is on the throne, and the HRH passes only to male line grandchildren, IIRC (see ILuvBertie's post above).
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  #1089  
Old 12-05-2011, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi View Post
The children of Prince William will not be children of a monarch when Charles is on the throne, and the HRH passes only to male line grandchildren, IIRC (see ILuvBertie's post above).
That's not an issue here. A daughter of William's is still a male line grandchild. See: Beatrice, Eugenie.
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  #1090  
Old 12-05-2011, 10:19 PM
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That's not an issue here. A daughter of William's is still a male line grandchild. See: Beatrice, Eugenie.

Yes,if the daughter is born when Prince Charles would become a king.Otherwise it will be just a great-granddaughter of the current monarch,QE2
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  #1091  
Old 12-05-2011, 11:11 PM
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Yes,if the daughter is born when Prince Charles would become a king.Otherwise it will be just a great-granddaughter of the current monarch,QE2
Indeed. And maybe there will be letters patent changing that... but I can't see a real need for it. The eldest would have an HRH and the others would be Lord/Lady until Charles is king. Even if the Queen lives to be as old as the Queen Mother and William has children very, very soon, they'd be Princes/Princesses by the time they were teenagers.

It might even be better for them to have lower titles as children- help keep the hype around them down as much as possible and maybe help give them a more normal childhood for as long as possible.
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  #1092  
Old 12-05-2011, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by HRHHermione View Post
Indeed. And maybe there will be letters patent changing that... but I can't see a real need for it. The eldest would have an HRH and the others would be Lord/Lady until Charles is king. Even if the Queen lives to be as old as the Queen Mother and William has children very, very soon, they'd be Princes/Princesses by the time they were teenagers.

It might even be better for them to have lower titles as children- help keep the hype around them down as much as possible and maybe help give them a more normal childhood for as long as possible.

yup I agree. That would be the best IMO,like Lady Louise and James,Viscount Severn
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  #1093  
Old 12-06-2011, 12:57 AM
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William's eldest son will be born an HRH. The only problem would be if they have a girl first and then a son with no changes to the current LPs - as the girl would be born Lady while the son would be HRH.

The relevant legislation is still some way away - I heard something about 4 or more years before any changes will be finished so this issue is still relevant.
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  #1094  
Old 12-06-2011, 01:45 AM
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The Queen could also decide to wait and see. If Catherine produces a daughter as her first-born, The Queen could simply declare the child as HRH Princess X in the birth announcement.
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  #1095  
Old 12-06-2011, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by branchg View Post
The Queen could also decide to wait and see. If Catherine produces a daughter as her first-born, The Queen could simply declare the child as HRH Princess X in the birth announcement.

Given modern technology I wouldn't be at all surprised if they know the sex of the child before it is born so that the Queen can be prepared to issue the relevant LPs, if necessary - do nothing if it is a boy but issue the LPs at the birth if it is a girl.
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  #1096  
Old 12-06-2011, 10:54 AM
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That would be very odd if the older female child is the heir to the throne with the lower title than a younger brother who gets the HRH and doesn't inherit. I'd guess that they'll just have to see as the children come along "who's on first" to rework the title issue or just take advantage of that modern technology to be prepared.
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  #1097  
Old 12-06-2011, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Baroness of Books View Post
That would be very odd if the older female child is the heir to the throne with the lower title than a younger brother who gets the HRH and doesn't inherit.
That's why I think The Queen will either issue Letters Patent or simply declare once Catherine becomes pregnant that all of William's children will be HRH Prince/Princess X.

Given that a first-born daughter will take precedence in the succession, the current 1917 Letters Patent granting the eldest son of the eldest son of The Prince of Wales the style of HRH Prince X are archaic.

William's children will become male-line grandchildren of The King and are next in-line to the throne. There is also the possibility they would be the children of The Sovereign if Charles predeceases The Queen. So, there's really no reason not to grant them royal rank at birth.
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  #1098  
Old 12-06-2011, 11:45 AM
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It does makes sense to change the LPs at this point since it's a fait accompli what the standing of William's children will be in the succession and to entitle them all as HRH.
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  #1099  
Old 12-19-2011, 09:52 AM
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This has probably been asked a lot, but it has been bugging me. If Diana and Charles had a daughter...what would her title have been?
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  #1100  
Old 12-19-2011, 10:00 AM
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This has probably been asked a lot, but it has been bugging me. If Diana and Charles had a daughter...what would her title have been?
HRH Princess X of Wales, then after Charles ascent to the throne HRH The Princess X and maybe one day after Anne's death HRH The Princess Royal.
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