Questions about British Styles and Titles

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by DukeOfAster

Do you all see that during a Charles reign that his stepchildren will get titles of there on. I see that if their mom is the wife of a king her children should have a title of their own.

This goes with the house thing, as Tom and Laura are not royalty, married to royalty or related in any blood way to royalty they do not deserve nor need titles when their mother becomes Queen. They are Camilla and Andrew's children, not Charles and Camilla's.

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by DukeOfAster

Do you all see that during a Charles reign that his stepchildren will get titles of there on. I see that if their mom is the wife of a king her children should have a title of their own.

I don't think that will happen at all. They will be the King's stepchildren and then the next King after that's step-siblings but that is no reason for them to get titles.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by DukeOfAster

Let's say Charles makes Camilla a Princess of the UK and during his reign and she is Princess Camillia, The Princess Consort during this time. Since Charledhas not been given a title like William has in his own right what will Camillia be know as if Charles passes before she does. The basic could be Princess Camellia, Princess of the United Kingdom. Any suggestions.

Camilla cannot be created a Princess of the UK once Charles is King because in law and by succession of title, she would be "HM The Queen" automatically as the wife of The Sovereign. She can only hold whatever title her husband has as she has no titles in her own right.

If Parliament agrees to pass legislation stating Camilla will not be Queen Consort (with the Crown Commonwealth also granting their consent), Charles can then issue Letters Patent creating Camilla a Princess in her own right. At that point, she has her own title and rank for her lifetime.

It's very unlikely, however, this will actually happen. I fully expect Camilla will become Queen when the time comes.

[DukeOfAster]

Thanks for that it makes since. Just curious will with the change that allows a women to be queen if she has a husband will he be her King like a wife would be his queen.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

This goes with the house thing, as Tom and Laura are not royalty, married to royalty or related in any blood way to royalty they do not deserve nor need titles when their mother becomes Queen. They are Camilla and Andrew's children, not Charles and Camilla's.

Agreed. If Tom and Laura were young kids being raised in the King's household with his other blood children, I can see it being a possibility once they came of age.

They are adults with their own independent lives and no desire to become a member of the royal family. Nor is there a reason for them to be considered as such, other than informally.

[branchg]

Originally Posted by DukeOfAster

Thanks for that it makes since. Just curious will with the change that allows a women to be queen if she has a husband will he be her King like a wife would be his queen.

No, because technically, the title of King outranks the title of Queen. So, Prince Albert and Prince Philip, being consorts of reigning Queens, were limited to being Princes of the UK and/or Dukes of the Realm.

[Baroness of Books]

To be entitled king one must inherit the title in his own right, not as spouse of a reigning queen. As Branchg states, a king outranks a queen, unless she is a queen regnant who rules in her own right. Otherwise she will be a queen consort, the spouse of a king. However, when Philip of Spain married Mary Tudor, he did become king of England only to have the title during her lifetime. But as we've seen in later times, Prince Albert was the Prince Consort to Queen Victoria and Prince Philip has remained in his title, as well as Duke of Edinburgh, to Queen Elizabeth.

[DukeOfAster]

But with the new laws that allow the Monarch to be the first born will that not change that.So if that is a woman will she not out rank the men so then the King title out ranking the Queen will be gone to correct.

[Baroness of Books]

I don't see how anything would change with the new laws, other than if a female is first born she'll be queen. There can't be a king if a woman has inherited the throne, and therefore her spouse will be a prince, duke or whatever title he already has or is bestowed by the queen.

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by DukeOfAster

Thanks for that it makes since. Just curious will with the change that allows a women to be queen if she has a husband will he be her King like a wife would be his queen.

A woman can already be Queen. The only change is to allow first born child, regardless of gender, to ascend the throne.

As we have had a number of Queens' Regnant with consorts who weren't Kings there is no reason to assume that a future Queen Regnant would be any different.

[Hendrik-Jan77]

I have a question about the future titles of the children of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge.
When the Duke and Duchess will become Prince and Princess of Wales one day, will their childrens' titles also change?
For example:
The couple will have 3 daughters:

H.R.H. Princess Victoria of Cambridge
H.R.H. Princess Alexandra of Cambridge
H.R.H. Princess Caroline of Cambridge

When their parents will become Prince and Princess of Wales, will they then become:

H.R.H. Princess Victoria of Wales
H.R.H. Princess Alexandra of Wales
H.R.H. Princess Caroline of Wales

Or will they keep their Cambridge titles?
Maybe someone asked this question before in this thread. If so, I do apologize.

[NGalitzine]

If they follow the 1917 Letters Patent, while QE2 is on the throne the eldest son would be HRH Prince X of Cambridge. Other children would be Lord Y Mountbatten Windsor or Lady Z Mountbatten Windsor. When Charles comes to the throne they would be HRH Prince Y or Princess Z of Cornwall and Cambridge and then probably HRH Prince Y or Princess Z of Wales at a later date.
William automatically becomes Duke of Cornwall the moment his father succeeds to the throne but would need to be created Prince of Wales by his father.

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by Hendrik-Jan77

I have a question about the future titles of the children of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge.

They will take on their father's senior title - so on the death of the Queen they will become 'of Cornwall and Cambridge' (based on the precedent of George V, whose children went from 'of York' to 'of Cornwall and York' in 1901). When, and if Charles creates William Prince of Wales the children would then take 'of Wales' because Prince of Wales is the more senior title to 'Duke of Cornwall' which is senior to 'Duke of Cambridge'. George V's children became 'of Wales' when their father was created Prince of Wales in November 1901.

Just a note - William and Kate's dauthers, under the existing Letters Patent, won't be HRH Princess xxxx as only his eldest son currently will get the HRH Prince title from birth and the others will be titles as the children of a Duke Lord/Lady Mountbatten-Windsor. Then on Charles accession they will become HRH Prince/Princesses.

Of course the Queen could issue new LPs creating all of William's children HRH from birth.
.

[Baroness of Books]

What if the eldest child is a girl - would she get the HRH and her sisters the title of ladies? Or would that have to be changed with a new LP?

[wbenson]

It would have to be changed. Right now, it's only the eldest son.

[Iluvbertie]

It would take new LPs to give any daughter of William and Kate the HRH Princess title.

Currently the LPs in play are the 1917 LPs which state that the HRHs are - the children of the monarch, the male line grandchildren of the monarch and the eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales.

This means currently:

Children of the monarch - Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward.

Male line grandchildren of the monarch - The Duke of Gloucester The Duke of Kent Prince Michael of Kent Princess Alexandra (male line grandchildren of George V), The Duke of Cambridge, Prince Henry of Wales, Princess Beatrice of York, Princess Eugenie of York (male line grandchildren of Elizabeth II) and then there is Louise and James who aren't using it and there has been debate as to whether or not the announcements from BP were sufficient to deprive them of that title.

Notice that none of the children of Princess Mary, Princess Margaret or Princess Anne (all children of monarchs) have the HRH because they are the children of girls - so no HRH for them. Only males are good enough to pass on the HRH.

When Elizabeth II was pregnant with Charles special LPs were given to allow all her children to be born HRH otherwise Charles would have been born Lord Charles Mountbatten, Earl of Merioneth (a curtesy title from his father) and Anne would have been Lady Anne Mountbatten.

So any girl - regardless of being the eldest child simply doesn't qualify at the moment for HRH - new LPs needed or she would be born Lady xxxx Mountbatten-Windsor while her younger brother would be born HRH Prince yyyy of Cambridge.

[yvr girl]

What about if the law is changed so that the eldest inherits regardless of gender? The spirit of the eldest son of the eldest son LP is that the direct heir would be an HRH. What if the direct heir is a girl? (Assuming no other laws or conditions have been ammended.)

[branchg]

I think it's highly likely The Queen will issue Letters Patent providing that all of William and Catherine's children will be HRH Prince/Princess of the UK at birth.

With the change to succession to the throne providing a first-born daughter will take precedence over a son (which is effective for William's issue), it would make sense.

[Excalibur]

Originally Posted by branchg

I think it's highly likely The Queen will issue Letters Patent providing that all of William and Catherine's children will be HRH Prince/Princess of the UK at birth.

With the change to succession to the throne providing a first-born daughter will take precedence over a son (which is effective for William's issue), it would make sense.

But is there any need to do this? In the normal course of events, would the children not be "elevated" to HRH once Charles ascends the throne?

[PrincessKaimi]

The children of Prince William will not be children of a monarch when Charles is on the throne, and the HRH passes only to male line grandchildren, IIRC (see ILuvBertie's post above).