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  #981  
Old 06-24-2011, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by NotHRH View Post
Iluvbertie, for once we both agree on something. I believe Prince Charles/William will honor Prince Charles' younger brother, HRH the Earl of Wessex, with the Duke of Edinburgh title after both of his parents have passed on.
I like to think this will happen too, as Edward has done so much for the Duke of Edinburgh award for several years, taking up duties his father was unable to do.
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  #982  
Old 06-27-2011, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Molly2101 View Post
I like to think this will happen too, as Edward has done so much for the Duke of Edinburgh award for several years, taking up duties his father was unable to do.
There's no question Charles (or William) will honour The Queen and Prince Philip's wishes. I believe the idea in re-creating Edinburgh as a dukedom for Prince Edward is he will, in fact, continue his father's work with The Duke of Edinburgh's Award after his death.
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  #983  
Old 07-04-2011, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
There are 1000s yes but the vast majority are descendents of British princesses who married into foreign royal houses and are thus exempt.
I really enjoyed your explanation, but have a question:
do you think the paragraph in the RMA about the issue of British princesses who have married into foreign Royal families was actually meant the way you interpret it? You say any descendant from such a princess is exempt but couldn't it mean that only those descendants who through their birth belong to another, a foreign Royal House are exempt? The aim behind the RMA was to give the British souverain the right to control the marriage plans of the princes and princesses of the Royal House, be they his children, grand-children or great-grand-children.

But of course he needed no such right for the offspring of princesses who had married into other dynasties, these marriages were the problem and responsibility of other souverains and it would have caused massive problems if the British souverain tried to interfere with a wedding of a, say, princess of Prussia only because the princess's mother had been a British princess before she married to Prussia.

But in a case like that of the marriage of the Heir to a princess or prince who herself/himself was descended from a British princess (think Edward VII. and Alexandra of Denmark or the Queen and Prince Philip) the original idea of the RMA was threatened by such a interpretation. Because if the descendants of these marriages are exempt, then the whole Act doesn't make sense anymore because then the souverain's right to control the marriages of British princes and princesses was endangered.

So my guess is that the "princesses"-clause is not valid if the descendant of such a princess is as well a descendant of a father or mother who is a direct-line descendant of a British monarch. he fact that the Act talks about Princesses who married into foreign Royal Houses seems to support that interpretation, as the children of princesses who married into the British nobility are no exempt -because they are subjects of the British monarch which the children of the princesses who have married into other Royal Houses are not.
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  #984  
Old 07-04-2011, 08:04 AM
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Please note that posts regarding the differences of Grand Ducal titles in various countries have been moved to http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...-17155-29.html .

Thanks!

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  #985  
Old 07-04-2011, 09:17 AM
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Your interpretation is the one currently being used but...the other also is argued. If, for instance, Harry wants to marry someone of whom the Queen disapproves and he decides to take the matter to court - on the basis that as the descendent of a number of princesses who married into foreign royal houses he is thus exempt - the ruling would determine exactly which interpretation is the way forward - either the Act is null and void thanks to Queen Alexandra and Prince Philip (both descendents of princesses who married into foreign royal houses and then married back into the BRF) or on the basis of the remarriage back into the family the exemption ceased to exist any more.Obviously the British monarch has no say over the marriages of foreign royal houses who also are descendents of George II e.g. could you imagine the uproar in Spain if Felipe had had to get QEII's consent to marry just because he is a descendent of George II of GB.The Farran Exemption hasn't been tested in court and until it is the situation will continue as is.
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  #986  
Old 07-12-2011, 11:14 AM
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So if both P Philip and P Charles dies before the Queen, he could be Duke of Cambridge, Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay and Duke of Edinburgh besides the rest of it?

If he has children before any of them dies, his oldest son will get all the names (Cambridge, Strathearn & Carrickfergus) and the younger children nothing?


I need to find some website that explains how these British titles work... lol
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  #987  
Old 07-12-2011, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danish girl View Post
So if both P Philip and P Charles dies before the Queen, he could be Duke of Cambridge, Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay and Duke of Edinburgh besides the rest of it?
If that happened, William would be The Duke of Cambridge and The Duke of Edinburgh, but he wouldn't ever be Duke of Cornwall or Rothesay because those titles can only be held by the monarch's eldest son (who is also the heir apparent).

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Originally Posted by Danish girl View Post
If he has children before any of them dies, his oldest son will get all the names (Cambridge, Strathearn & Carrickfergus) and the younger children nothing?
Currently, his eldest son would be born HRH Prince X of Cambridge (and would not use the courtesy style of Earl of Strathearn). At this point in time, the younger children would be simply Lord/Lady Mountbatten-Windsor. When Charles becomes King, they would be HRH Prince/Princess X of Cambridge. But I think The Queen will issue new Letters Patent when William has kids so the Lord/Lady stuff won't happen.

Hope that helps. Titles are fascinating!
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  #988  
Old 07-12-2011, 10:50 PM
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As it stands right now, Prince Edward is to be Duke of Edinburgh upon the passing of both the Queen & The Duke. That was announced on Edward's wedding day. It was speculated here in the forums that all interested parties must have agreed to it (if that is honored or not is apparently another matter).
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  #989  
Old 07-12-2011, 10:56 PM
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I think the previous poster was alluding to the fact that William would inherit the Edinburgh title if Philip AND Charles both died before the Queen. Once William became King, it would merge again with the Crown.
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  #990  
Old 07-15-2011, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Penelope View Post
As it stands right now, Prince Edward is to be Duke of Edinburgh upon the passing of both the Queen & The Duke. That was announced on Edward's wedding day. It was speculated here in the forums that all interested parties must have agreed to it (if that is honored or not is apparently another matter).
Oh I'm sure the Queen and Duke's wishes will be honored.
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  #991  
Old 08-26-2011, 01:10 AM
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New Style of Address for Sarah Ferguson

In the wake of all that has happened, I think it might be a good time to discussing alternative or new styles of address for Sarah Ferguson.

She currently is Sarah, Duchess of York, in accordance with Letters Patent issued by HM.

Given that she has rather muddied the former title and current style of Duchess of York, and presuming that HM may wish to entertain a change in that status, what is your considered opinion as to what style of address might be best for Sarah Ferguson?

My own suggestion is to revive the Duchess of Windsor title in (obviously) non-Royal form. It would clearly delineate someone who has egregiously failed any vestiges of honor toward the Crown, and would effectively end the semi-Royal idiocy that she perpetuates regarding the York title & style.

Quite frankly, I think that the Queen has been beyond patient in watching Sarah drag the titles and styles of HM's own parents through degradation. With the jubilee coming up, I would expect that HM would like to place a final end point on the whole tiresome Sarah situation.

So what does the collective wisdom of TRF think? What other style - not title, but style - might be appropriate, now that Sarah has wrung out every bit of life and dignity from York?
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  #992  
Old 08-26-2011, 01:38 AM
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How about Mrs. Sarah Windsor? Or Mrs. Sarah York?

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Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post
In the wake of all that has happened, I think it might be a good time to open a thread discussing alternative or new styles of address for Sarah Ferguson.
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  #993  
Old 08-26-2011, 01:47 AM
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I think the new status address should be "Ms. Sarah Windsor" and let it be that. The "Ms." address would actually end up denoting that she was previously married and "Windsor" would actually denote that she was married to Andrew, connecting her to the RF without a title.
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  #994  
Old 08-26-2011, 01:53 AM
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She isn't a Windsor and neither is she a Duchess.

Why not just Ms Sarah Ferguson? Everyone refers to her as Sarah Ferguson anyway.
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  #995  
Old 08-26-2011, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
How about Mrs. Sarah Windsor? Or Mrs. Sarah York?
Legally, I don't see there being any changes in the style Sarah, Duchess of York as that is the proper style for a divorced wife of a peer. However, perhaps some kind of agreement could be drawn up that in any future commercial dealings, she would be restricted to the use of Sarah Mountbatten-Windsor or Sarah York or even Sarah Ferguson so as not to allude to a title that befits a peer of the UK?

Now that the hoopla has sort of died down over Sarah's
latest ventures, perhaps this is something that could be taken into consideration before other ventures pop up. Also, if other ventures are not popping up, a little cash encouragement might even sweeten the deal on Sarah's end.
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  #996  
Old 08-26-2011, 02:32 AM
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Well, I am not in favour of reviving the Windsor title for any royals or ex-royals who are or become infamous. I think Sarah will always have the Duchess of York title one way or another - and I mean that in the sense that if she ever re-married it would be to Andrew. Either that or they remain for the rest fo their lives un-married.
Having said that, if Andrew did ever find....again...some star struck woman with such a lack of common sense as to be prepared to marry him, we would have two Duchess of Yorks on the same planet and this, I think would be confusing. So for me, the question is more about whether consideration should be given to devising a way of providing the ex-wives of royal princes with brand new titles in the same way that Denmark dealt with Princess Alexandra on her divorce from Prince Joachim. I can only think that Sarah should have been allowed to use either the Inverness or Killyleagh title so she would now be known either as Sarah, Countess of Inverness or Sarah, Baroness Killyleagh.
I agree with Madame Royale, though. Why not develop abit of modesty and just call yourself Ms Sarah Ferguson.
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  #997  
Old 08-26-2011, 02:37 AM
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We have to remember too that in the UK wives are afforded the feminine title of their husbands and may retain a style of such after a divorce. The only women that would ever be allowed the title and style of Duchess of Windsor are those that marry a Duke of Windsor as Wallis Simpson did.

It may not be too far off too that even if Sarah does retain the use of Duchess of York, Andrew himself may be titled primarily as the Duke of Edinburgh after the passing of his parents.

I'm not sure about this but I would be willing to bet that as a divorced wife of a peer, she probably couldn't use the style of her ex husband if he attained the title after the divorce? Perhaps Diarist can fill in the blanks here.
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  #998  
Old 08-26-2011, 03:01 AM
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Andrew will need quite a few deaths and other things to happen before he could be Duke of Edinburgh.
Currently he is 4th in line to the Edinburgh title, after Charles, William and Harry - just as he is 4th in line to the throne itself.
For Andrew to inherit Edinburgh as his major title Charles, William and Harry all have to die and either William or Harry have a legitimate daughter to become the monarch so that Andrew could inherit Edinburgh.
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  #999  
Old 08-26-2011, 03:17 AM
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You are so right! I'm just waking up and not enough coffee in me yet (and no doughnuts in the house either). Besides, I had Andrew and Edward confused. Hasn't it been stated that HM and the DoE said something along the lines of passing the DoE title through Charles to Edward? Anyhoo... my mistake.
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  #1000  
Old 08-26-2011, 03:28 AM
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That is a pity cause I thought that was a great idea it would give Andrew space from Sarah. I think there is no reason why she couldn't call herself Ms Sarah Ferguson. And people either call her that or Madam as she is entitled. I actually think she has pretty much worn out the use of her title, things have moved on and the younger ones are coming up and her daughters who don't hold as much interest as Prince Harry and William aren't going to give her the mileage she needs. If Andrew did remarry then I think Sarah would be forced not to use the title there can't be two Duchesses of York! Besides Andrew's wife would be a HRH wouldn't she? Not that I can see that happening although according to rumours he has wanted to marry other women they just haven't wanted to marry into the family. I don't believe Sarah and Andrew will remarry although I'm sure Sarah would love it and then her title would be reinstated and she wouldn't have the worries she had. Andrew has more money now then he did before and maybe she looks at Charles and Camilla and think with the changes in the family now would be a great time to come back into the fold. Problem for her is that with her misuse over the years of the title and the bad name she has now caused it to have the RF would never welcome her back. I would think with all of Charles's titles etc the Dof E title would be passed to someone else. When Princess Beatrice or Eugenie gets married do they keep their Princess titles? Or will they get given something else?
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