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  #801  
Old 01-05-2011, 12:02 AM
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When Beatrice and Eugenie marry will they gain titles such as HRH Princess Eugenie, Duchess/Countess of ..... and then the husband would take a title.....and be HRH. If they did that then the husbands would seem higher than there wives.
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  #802  
Old 01-05-2011, 01:22 AM
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Only if the husband was given a title, such as Anthony Armstrong-Jones received the title Earl of Snowdon when he married HRH The Princess Margaret. That meant that their children received the titles of Viscount Linley and Lady Sarah Armstrong-Jones but not the HRH. The name "Lady" is the courtesy title of the daughter of an Earl. Husbands who marry princess of the British Royal Family don't become Royal Highnesses, although women marrying British princes do...as any woman takes her husband's style under English common law. HRH The Princess Anne married Capt. Mark Phillips and was known as HRH The Princess Anne Mrs. Mark Phillips. Now of course she's known as HRH The Princess Royal.


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Originally Posted by Sam20045 View Post
When Beatrice and Eugenie marry will they gain titles such as HRH Princess Eugenie, Duchess/Countess of ..... and then the husband would take a title.....and be HRH. If they did that then the husbands would seem higher than there wives.
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  #803  
Old 01-05-2011, 06:54 AM
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I don't think this will happen.

I can see Beatrice becoming HRH Princess Beatrice of York, Mrs. David Clark....similiar to her aunt's title during her first marriage. The only way she will become a Duchess, Lady or whatever is if she marries someone who currently holds a title.

I can't see the Queen, or Charles or William giving any husband of Zara, Beatrice, Eugenie or Louise an additional title.
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  #804  
Old 01-05-2011, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam20045 View Post
When Beatrice and Eugenie marry will they gain titles such as HRH Princess Eugenie, Duchess/Countess of ..... and then the husband would take a title.....and be HRH. If they did that then the husbands would seem higher than there wives.
They won't get any additional titles, and it is unlikely that the husbands of the yorks will recieve their own titles aka Duke or Earl of whereever.
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  #805  
Old 01-05-2011, 02:59 PM
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When Beatrice and Eugenie marry will they gain titles such as HRH Princess Eugenie, Duchess/Countess of ..... and then the husband would take a title.....and be HRH. If they did that then the husbands would seem higher than there wives.

No they won't gain any titles - unless tragedy has struck the family and Beatrice is the heiress apparent - e.g. Charles, William, Harry and Andrew are all dead leaving no one to come between Beatrice and the throne. In that case I would expect the husband to get a Dukedom like Philip did but as long as they are simply male-line granddaughters of the monarch no - just like Princess Alexandra's husband wasn't given a title when they married.
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  #806  
Old 01-05-2011, 04:04 PM
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But in regards to Princess Alexandra of Kent, the Queen offered to title Angus Olgivy and the couple said no.

In the case of Beatrice, Eugenie or even Louise I don't think it will be an option.
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  #807  
Old 01-05-2011, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk
But in regards to Princess Alexandra of Kent, the Queen offered to title Angus Olgivy and the couple said no.

In the case of Beatrice, Eugenie or even Louise I don't think it will be an option.
Should their husbands be offered and accept a title then they'd take thier husbands title, yes? Othewise would their title be like Princess Alexandra.... i.e. Princess Beatrice, Mrs. Smith .....
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  #808  
Old 01-05-2011, 05:51 PM
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Yes, that is correct.

Princess Alexandra of Kent, was HRH Princess Alexandra of Kent, Mrs. Angus Olgivy when she married, and he was granted a title (became a Knight Commander of the Victorian Order in 1988) and became Sir Angus Olgivy than she became HRH Princess Alexandra of Kent, Lady Olgivy. And his title didn't pass on to their son, James.

It should noted that the couple married in 1963 and he didn't get his title until 25 years later based on the support he provided to Princess Alexandra doing her duties and his charity events.

If Princess Beatrice married David Clark she would be HRH Princess Beatrice of York, Mrs. David Clark.
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  #809  
Old 01-05-2011, 05:52 PM
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Should their husbands be offered and accept a title then they'd take thier husbands title, yes? Othewise would their title be like Princess Alexandra.... i.e. Princess Beatrice, Mrs. Smith .....
If that were the case - for example Princess Beatrice marries and her husband is offered an earldom, which he accepts - then upon marriage she would become HRH Princess Beatrice, Countess of X. He would not gain an HRH, but would be The Earl of X.

The same would be true for Princess Eugenie, but in the case of Lady Louise she would just become The Countess of X, as she is not styled HRH.

Of course, this is all hypothetical because I seriously doubt any of the husbands of the royal granddaughters will be offered titles.
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  #810  
Old 01-06-2011, 12:31 AM
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Yes, I agree. Any sort of peerage would only be in their own right such as Angus Ogilvy's.


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Of course, this is all hypothetical because I seriously doubt any of the husbands of the royal granddaughters will be offered titles.
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  #811  
Old 01-10-2011, 02:03 PM
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I Wish the Queens Husband wouldve been made Prince Consort
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  #812  
Old 01-10-2011, 02:57 PM
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The eldest son and heir of an earl or viscount is given one of his father's lesser titles as a courtesy, if one exists; his younger sons are given the title The Honourable. Daughters of earls are given the title Lady, while daughters of viscounts and all the children of barons are given the title The Honourable.
Was there a time when only the eldest daughter of an earl was given the title Lady, and younger daughters were The Honourable? I read that in a period novel set 200 years ago, that one of the characters was the daughter of an earl but called The Honourable First Name, etc., but her eldest sister was Lady First Name. Or perhaps that was an error by the author?
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  #813  
Old 01-10-2011, 04:46 PM
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I Wish the Queens Husband wouldve been made Prince Consort

You have to convince him of that as it has been reported a number of times that it is Philip that has refused that title each time the Queen has offered it - 1952 being the first and 2007 the most recent time that it was reported that she had offered to do so and he had refused that title.
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  #814  
Old 01-10-2011, 05:23 PM
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You have to convince him of that as it has been reported a number of times that it is Philip that has refused that title each time the Queen has offered it - 1952 being the first and 2007 the most recent time that it was reported that she had offered to do so and he had refused that title.
What is the difference between his being Prince Consort and the title he has now? Was it Prince Albert who was Prince Consort -- how did that make a difference? (Not arguing, I'm asking for information.)
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  #815  
Old 01-10-2011, 05:25 PM
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What is the difference between his being Prince Consort and the title he has now? Was it Prince Albert who was Prince Consort -- how did that make a difference? (Not arguing, I'm asking for information.)
Well technically he is the Prince Consort, being wife of the Queen Regnant. He has just not chosen to use it.
Prince consort - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #816  
Old 01-15-2011, 07:58 PM
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Was there a time when only the eldest daughter of an earl was given the title Lady, and younger daughters were The Honourable? I read that in a period novel set 200 years ago, that one of the characters was the daughter of an earl but called The Honourable First Name, etc., but her eldest sister was Lady First Name. Or perhaps that was an error by the author?
I would certainly say "author error" on this. If the novel was only set 200 years ago, you're talking circa 1800-1820, and I don't believe there has been any change to British courtesy titles during that time, or indeed, before then.

All daughters of Earls are "(The) Lady".

As for example, the daughters of Francis Greville, 1st Earl of Warwick (4th Creation), who had five: Louisa, Frances, Charlotte, Isabella and Anne. All of them carried the courtesy title of Lady as the daughters of an earl from the moment Francis Greville was created 1st Earl Brooke of Warwick Castle, in 1746. He became Earl of Warwick in 1759. His eldest daughters, Louisa and Charlotte were "The Honourable" from birth (as daughters of a Baron), but that title changed while they were still toddlers.

Lady Louisa married William Churchill in 1770, who was from an impeccable family but without a courtesy title (he was plain Mr. William Churchill), and after her marriage she was known as Lady Louisa Churchill.

Lady Frances married Sir Henry Harpur in 1764, who was a baronet, but Frances still retained higher rank as an earl's daughter, so she was Lady Frances Harpur after her marriage.

Lady Charlotte married John Stewart, Viscount Garlies, becoming Viscountess Garlies by her husband's courtesy title. Unfortunately, she died before he became the 7th Earl of Galloway in 1773.

Lady Isabella and Lady Anne Greville both died relatively young, and were never married.

There are however, a couple of caveats to the courtesy usage.

If, for example, the heir to an earldom lives to adulthood and fathers children (we'll say 2 sons and 3 daughters in this example), but he dies before his father.. meaning the eldest grandson of the earl would inherit the title instead of the original son and heir.

In this case, it has been known for the daughters of the deceased heir to be granted the courtesy title of "Lady", which they would have been entitled to had their father lived. It's called "granting the precedence of an earl's daughter". So they become "Lady" on the succession of their brother, rather than remaining "The Honourable". The same would apply to their brother, although he may be an Honourable already, in which case his courtesy would not change.

This has also has been known to happen with more distant heirs, who may not have titles of their own prior to succeeding. In such cases, the brother(s) and sister(s) of the newly minted earl may be granted precedence and allowed to use "The Honourable" for a brother, and "Lady" for a sister, as the siblings of the titleholder.

But neither of these scenarios always apply. I believe someone has to petition the sovereign and receive formal recognition for it to be allowed.
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  #817  
Old 01-16-2011, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
I don't think this will happen.

I can see Beatrice becoming HRH Princess Beatrice of York, Mrs. David Clark....similiar to her aunt's title during her first marriage. The only way she will become a Duchess, Lady or whatever is if she marries someone who currently holds a title.

I can't see the Queen, or Charles or William giving any husband of Zara, Beatrice, Eugenie or Louise an additional title.
I wonder though if they would want titles for their husbands. The Queen after all did offer those husbands ( Anne and Alexandra) titles but they were refused. As for Charles, William, or even Harry (if he gets it) I would think maybe not. Does anyone think that the girls would want to even keep their princess titles or have their husbands have titles? I don't know enough about them to guess.
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  #818  
Old 01-30-2011, 12:12 AM
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Thanks for the clarification! I knew Princess of Wales was her most senior title, and she held the other titles that Prince Charles holds. I just guessed since she has several titles by virtue of marriage, she would not hold "The Princess Charles" as a title, as that would be the title she would receive upon marriage had Charles had no other titles (ie. Princess Michael). But that make total sense, as he is "The Prince Charles", so she, as well as being The Princess of Wales, was also The Princess Charles!!. :)
Exactly - she took all his titles.

Currently only Princess Micheal uses that form but there are a number who have it - Camilla, (The Princess Charles), Sophie (The Princess Edward), Birgitte (Princess Richard of Gloucester) and Katherine (Princess Edward of Kent). These ladies use other titles but they also have these ones.
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  #819  
Old 02-03-2011, 12:19 AM
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I've read nearly every post on this thread, and I'm confused. First, it seems clear that not everyone agrees on everything, so maybe there are no hard and fast answers.

But starting with my latest confusion first: I thought a Princess became Princess [His Name] only when he had no other titles to bestow. So Princess Michael uses that form, but it is inappropriate for Princess Camilla or Princess Sophie.

Next, it seems that the Sovereign can rearrange several aspects of styles and titles, such as renaming Houses or bestowing titles such as Prince and styles such as HRH. Is this correct?

Finally, while it has been generally the case in the past that dead people's titles can't change, aren't a lot of things in flux in the last 100 years in various monarchies? If a Sovereign were to posthumously bestow a title, what would stop him from so doing? Unless the Prime Minister were to advise otherwise, can't the Sovereign do as he wishes with titles and styles?

Thanks in advance for any help on these questions.
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  #820  
Old 02-03-2011, 01:23 PM
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Is the BRF the only one with this kind of royal styling? Example: Mette-Marit wasn't born a Princes but she isn't called Princess Haakon, she is styled Crown Princess Mette-Marit, why is the that? Why is the BRF different?
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