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  #701  
Old 02-18-2010, 09:52 AM
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She is not THE duchess because she is no longer married to THE duke of York. She lost her HRH, just like Diana did.

It's the proper address for divorced wives of peers.
She retains only the style, not the title of Duchess of York. This is to emphasize her changed status from wife to former wife of the Duke of York.

I believe she gets no income or priveliges and is not obliged to do anything.

If she remarries, she will lose the style.
Just as Princess Alexandra of Denmark did when she remarried.
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  #702  
Old 02-18-2010, 03:25 PM
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All divorced wives of peers have the right to take their former title and use it the way Sarah does, and Diana did.

After the divorces both of them lost the HRH but they were able to use Duchess of York and Princess of Wales as a sort of surname so we got Sarah, Duchess of York, Diana, Princess of Wales. The wives of Earl Spencer used Countess Spencer in the same way after their divorces.

The use of 'The' with a capital 'T' is only done by the holder of the title and his wife so Andrew is The Duke of York but there is no The Duchess of York. If Andrew was to remarry his new wife would be The Duchess of York but Sarah would still be Sarah, Duchess of York.
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  #703  
Old 02-18-2010, 03:40 PM
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But if some terrible things happen, God forbid. And one of her daughters ascends the throne she will be "Queen Mother".
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  #704  
Old 02-18-2010, 03:51 PM
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Wait~how can that be? How would she be QM if she is divorced from Andrew?
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  #705  
Old 02-18-2010, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsbugman View Post
But if some terrible things happen, God forbid. And one of her daughters ascends the throne she will be "Queen Mother".
Queen Mother must be both the parent of the current monarch and the widow of the previous monarch. Unless Sarah were to remarry Andrew she would not be be a Queen Mother, just a mother to a Queen.
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  #706  
Old 02-18-2010, 04:23 PM
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Thank you all for the answers! You made me a lot wiser!
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  #707  
Old 02-19-2010, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sliver_bic View Post
Queen Mother must be both the parent of the current monarch and the widow of the previous monarch. Unless Sarah were to remarry Andrew she would not be be a Queen Mother, just a mother to a Queen.

Not only would she have to remarry Andrew but Andrew would also have to be King for Sarah to be the Queen Mother in the way that Elizabeth was.

However, it is also perfectly within the monarch's privilege to grant titles and so Beatrice could create her mother 'The Queen's Mother' with capital letters and a formal title in her own right (which I would expect in this scenario - to ensure that her mother had an appropriate official status she would need something done).
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  #708  
Old 02-19-2010, 06:08 PM
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King Michael of Romania's mother was declared Queen Mother even though she and his father were divorced before he became king.
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  #709  
Old 02-19-2010, 08:44 PM
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Yes, but Helen of Romania had already become Queen when Carol managed to return and replace Michael as King. Although he refused to allow her the title of Queen, she was "HM Helen of Romania", a style she retained with divorce and in exile.

When Michael became King again, he declared his mother was "HM The Queen Mother of Romania".
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  #710  
Old 02-20-2010, 04:46 PM
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hi....
sorry to my understanding helen was never queen, she and carol had divorced in 1928. he was proclaimed king in 1930, abdicated the throne in 1940 in the favor of his son michael who was king from 1927 (due to the death of his grandfather king ferdinand) until 1930 !.
cheers...
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  #711  
Old 02-20-2010, 04:57 PM
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Helen received the designation Queen Mother of Romania (Regina mamă, Elena). When Michael ascended.

When married she was Crown Princess of Romania, but when Carol ascended the throne Helen was told by the Prime Minister Iuliu Maniu that as a result of the abrogation of the act of 4 January 1926, Carol had legitimately succeeded as king in July 1927, from which point she had automatically ranked as queen.

The government presented a decree to Carol for his signature officially confirming Helen as Her Majesty The Queen of Romania. Carol, however, crossed this out and declared Helen to be Her Majesty Helen (i.e. with the style Majesty, but not the title Queen).

She was never a Queen.
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  #712  
Old 03-10-2010, 06:59 AM
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Only for curiosity, the day that dies the prince Andrew, that will happen with him title?, will Sarah continue using title Duchess of York ?
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  #713  
Old 03-10-2010, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by silviaelena View Post
Only for curiosity, the day that dies the prince Andrew, that will happen with him title?, will Sarah continue using title Duchess of York ?

The day that Prince Andrew dies, assuming that he hasn't remarried and had a son, the Duke of York title will revert to the Crown.

Sarah isn't using the title Duchess of York now. She is using the words Duchess of York more as a surname but she isn't The Duchess of York. She will still be able to use that designation until she herself dies, or she remarries someone other than Andrew. She will be able to style herself Sarah, Duchess of York even after Andrew dies.

One one to look at it is if she had been married to John Smith and still called herself Sarah Smith after getting divorced and John Smith died she could still call herself Sarah Smith so after Andrew died she would still be entitled to call herself Sarah, Duchess of York (even if Andrew has remarried and had a son who became Duke of York after his father).
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  #714  
Old 03-12-2010, 02:57 AM
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Ok - question - here is a title that became extinct. It would be the Earl of Sefton. I read on a page that
Quote:
When the last Earl died in 1972, a worldwide search was made for an heir to the title but without success.
- if someone who was a direct descendant of the family spoke up what would happen, and what if that person was a female? It would obviously have to be checked out. Which is where I have a question - The parents of Lady Anne Gerrard who was wife to Governor of Maryland, Thomas Greene. Does anyone have any idea who they were? Was it Sir Thomas Lord Baron of Bryne Gerrard/Gerard and Lady Frances Molyneux? If so was Lady Frances Molyneux's parents Sir Richard, 1st Baronet of Sefton Molyneux and Lady Frances of Sefton Gerrard? Anyone know anything?
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  #715  
Old 03-12-2010, 04:20 AM
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The standard for most titles is heirs male of the body so unless the person who spoke up was able to prove male descent they have no claim - a claim through a female won't count.
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  #716  
Old 03-12-2010, 07:03 PM
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If women can inherit the throne - they really need to change this no female rule.
Boohoo!
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  #717  
Old 03-13-2010, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Meg View Post
If women can inherit the throne - they really need to change this no female rule.
Boohoo!

I agree. I would love to see other titles at least to the same standards as the monarchy - if no sons then the daughters can inherit rather than the case at the moment where if there are only daughters the title becomes extinct.

Personally I hope when they pass legislation to go to gender blind succession to the monarchy they do the same for all titles - gender blind (and even possible back date it to allow for a living eldest daughter of a title that had gone extinct to take on that title e.g. my distant family's title of Viscount Leverhulme went extinct when the 3rd Viscount died leaving only daughters but I would love to see the eldest be able to claim the title if they changed the legislation - of course I would specify only if the eldest daughter or maybe one further generation only still living).
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  #718  
Old 03-14-2010, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I agree. I would love to see other titles at least to the same standards as the monarchy - if no sons then the daughters can inherit rather than the case at the moment where if there are only daughters the title becomes extinct.

Personally I hope when they pass legislation to go to gender blind succession to the monarchy they do the same for all titles - gender blind (and even possible back date it to allow for a living eldest daughter of a title that had gone extinct to take on that title e.g. my distant family's title of Viscount Leverhulme went extinct when the 3rd Viscount died leaving only daughters but I would love to see the eldest be able to claim the title if they changed the legislation - of course I would specify only if the eldest daughter or maybe one further generation only still living).
Exactly - it's way overdue - yes, there are some titles I have been searching for and I'm pretty sure no one in my immediate family would be interested except for me.
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  #719  
Old 04-11-2010, 03:05 PM
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I now this is OT but I can't find another to post my question: Camilla chose to be known as the Duchess of Cornwall upon her marriage to Charles. In case Charles dies before ascending to the throne, what will be Camilla's title? I mean, if William becomes King and he has a son, he will be the Duke of Cornwall right? So he will be the Duke of Cornwall and Camilla( his step grandmother) the Duchess of Cornwall? Because that will be kind of weird I think.
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  #720  
Old 04-18-2010, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by snowflower View Post
I now this is OT but I can't find another to post my question: Camilla chose to be known as the Duchess of Cornwall upon her marriage to Charles. In case Charles dies before ascending to the throne, what will be Camilla's title? I mean, if William becomes King and he has a son, he will be the Duke of Cornwall right? So he will be the Duke of Cornwall and Camilla( his step grandmother) the Duchess of Cornwall? Because that will be kind of weird I think.

If Charles dies before ascending the throne Camilla will remain HRH Camilla, Princess of Wales, Duchess of Cornwall etc and William's son will also be The Duke of Cornwall.

This happens all the time - where the wife of the desceased Duke is still known by the Duchess of xxxx while their is a new Duke and Duchess using the same title, but the new Duchess has the The with a capital 'T' whereas the mother Duchess technically should be known as the Dowager Duchess of xxxx but often the word Dowager is left off.

If Andrew remarries then his wife would be known as The Duchess of York but Sarah would still be able to be Sarah, Duchess of York - her divorced style.
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