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  #681  
Old 01-23-2010, 05:53 PM
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Exclamation Descent of Titles

Question - once a person either refuses or doesn't claim their title.. what happens? Can a family member descended from them step up and claim it years later? If not, does it become extinct or passed on to another close descendant i.e. another sister/brother?
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  #682  
Old 01-23-2010, 06:31 PM
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The title will be not used during the lifetime of the person who refused it, and after his death the title will be inherited by his closest male relative.
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  #683  
Old 01-28-2010, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
The title will be not used during the lifetime of the person who refused it, and after his death the title will be inherited by his closest male relative.
So basically once it's gone - it's gone? You cannot "reclaim" it? I know these are dumb questions - but I'm not up to date with the laws of Britain. So, the only way you can receive a title is if Her Majesty grants you one?
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  #684  
Old 01-29-2010, 01:50 AM
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No. Say the heir to the current Earl Spencer decided when his father died that he didn't wish to use that title he can simply say 'I am not going to be Earl Spencer'. However when he died, his son decides that he wants to be Earl Spencer he is able to do so because the title is his by inheritance. Just because his father said "I am not going to be Earl Spencer" doesn't deprive his heirs from holding that title.

The only way that that happens is if the monarch strips the title from the holder and the successors.

Another example would by the various titles removed during World War One. Althought the heirs haven't done so they can actually petition to have the title restored. Those titles can't be re-issued while their are legitimate heirs, who aren't using the titles, or able to by the Deprivations Act but the titles are still in existance.
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  #685  
Old 01-29-2010, 05:02 AM
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Another example can be the title of Earl of Home: in 1963 the 14th Earl of Home, Alec Douglas-Home, disclaimed his title, that was no longer used until his death; when he died in 1995, his son David automatically became the 15th Earl.
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  #686  
Old 01-29-2010, 03:25 PM
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What happens in the meantime. If the title includes property, does the inheritor-but-not-user continue to maintain the property (use the farm, etc.)?
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  #687  
Old 01-29-2010, 03:57 PM
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They have the right to use the property and the responsibility to maintain it just as any other owner of property does.
They might decide to establish a trust to run it but there is no reason why the property wouldn't still be his.
Unless the property is entailed (to male heirs for instance) even when a title becomes extinct the property can remain in the family e.g. my distant relatives had their title go extint in about 2000 due to no sons or nephews to inherit but the daughters were able to inherit all the property - house, shares, position in the family company etc. All they didn't get was the actual title.
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  #688  
Old 01-30-2010, 05:59 PM
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Thank you so much. I read somewhere about a man that tried to regain a title - but was denied. How does one go about petitioning to have the title restored? Do you have to write the Queen or whom??
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  #689  
Old 01-30-2010, 08:47 PM
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You would technically apply to the Queen who would then check with the appropriate office to find out if the person is entitled to the honour. They would also check into why the original title bearer lost the title.
In the case of those who lost their titles under the Titles Deprivation Act the Parliament would also have to be involved as an Act of Parliament was involved in the deprivation of the title meaning that Parliament would have to be involved in restitution.
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  #690  
Old 01-30-2010, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The only way that that happens is if the monarch strips the title from the holder and the successors.
The monarch doesn't have the power to do that. Peerages can only be stripped (and letters patent can only be amended) by Act of Parliament (or in accordance with an Act of Parliament, such as the Titles Deprivation Act).
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  #691  
Old 01-30-2010, 11:10 PM
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It might require legislation but the Queen also has to approve and can also instigate that - it isn't only one way.
In addition in the past monarchs have had the power to strip people of their titles (a long time ago I admit).
Sorry I worded my original post very badly and never meant to imply that the present Queen had rights that her predecessors had lost.
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  #692  
Old 02-18-2010, 09:24 AM
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Sarah's title

Hi,

Can somebody tell me about Sarah's title. I know that she is called sarah duchess of York, but why is it not The Duchess and why is she still called duchess anyway, (she is divorced from the prince)? Does this give her some income, privileges, obligations? Or is it just a title?

What about when she remarries? is she keeping her title?

Thanks in advance.

Di-fan
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  #693  
Old 02-18-2010, 09:52 AM
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She is not THE duchess because she is no longer married to THE duke of York. She lost her HRH, just like Diana did.

It's the proper address for divorced wives of peers.
She retains only the style, not the title of Duchess of York. This is to emphasize her changed status from wife to former wife of the Duke of York.

I believe she gets no income or priveliges and is not obliged to do anything.

If she remarries, she will lose the style.
Just as Princess Alexandra of Denmark did when she remarried.
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  #694  
Old 02-18-2010, 03:25 PM
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All divorced wives of peers have the right to take their former title and use it the way Sarah does, and Diana did.

After the divorces both of them lost the HRH but they were able to use Duchess of York and Princess of Wales as a sort of surname so we got Sarah, Duchess of York, Diana, Princess of Wales. The wives of Earl Spencer used Countess Spencer in the same way after their divorces.

The use of 'The' with a capital 'T' is only done by the holder of the title and his wife so Andrew is The Duke of York but there is no The Duchess of York. If Andrew was to remarry his new wife would be The Duchess of York but Sarah would still be Sarah, Duchess of York.
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  #695  
Old 02-18-2010, 03:40 PM
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But if some terrible things happen, God forbid. And one of her daughters ascends the throne she will be "Queen Mother".
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  #696  
Old 02-18-2010, 03:51 PM
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Wait~how can that be? How would she be QM if she is divorced from Andrew?
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  #697  
Old 02-18-2010, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mrsbugman View Post
But if some terrible things happen, God forbid. And one of her daughters ascends the throne she will be "Queen Mother".
Queen Mother must be both the parent of the current monarch and the widow of the previous monarch. Unless Sarah were to remarry Andrew she would not be be a Queen Mother, just a mother to a Queen.
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  #698  
Old 02-18-2010, 04:23 PM
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Thank you all for the answers! You made me a lot wiser!
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  #699  
Old 02-19-2010, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by sliver_bic View Post
Queen Mother must be both the parent of the current monarch and the widow of the previous monarch. Unless Sarah were to remarry Andrew she would not be be a Queen Mother, just a mother to a Queen.

Not only would she have to remarry Andrew but Andrew would also have to be King for Sarah to be the Queen Mother in the way that Elizabeth was.

However, it is also perfectly within the monarch's privilege to grant titles and so Beatrice could create her mother 'The Queen's Mother' with capital letters and a formal title in her own right (which I would expect in this scenario - to ensure that her mother had an appropriate official status she would need something done).
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  #700  
Old 02-19-2010, 06:08 PM
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King Michael of Romania's mother was declared Queen Mother even though she and his father were divorced before he became king.
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