The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #661  
Old 07-02-2009, 05:45 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.M. Margrethe View Post
I think that the reason for Camilla not jusing the titel as Princess of Wales is in respect for both the late Princess Diana and her 2 children William and Harry.
I agree this is the sole reason for her decision. It would not have been acceptable, given that Diana was the mother of William and Harry and died with the style "Princess of Wales".

But that accomodation must end when Charles becomes King. Diana was never going to be Queen and Camilla will be the wife of The King with her own rights as Queen Consort.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #662  
Old 07-04-2009, 04:32 PM
Marsel's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 966
I have recently read that in a Russian book about British Royalty (which was unfortunately inaccurate on a number of issues, hence my desire to verify this doubtful matter) that all people in line for the British Throne are (or can become) British subjects, without exceptions. I find this unlikely and dubious at best.

I know of a court case filed by Ernest August IV of Hannover in 1957, when he successfully claimed a British nationality under the 1705 Sophia Naturalization Act. However, I thought that the Act was repealed by a later Act (British Nationality Act of 1948, if I am not mistaken) and in any case, concerned only the Protestant descendants of the Electress. To my understanding, Ernest August succeeded in obtaining a British Nationality only because he was born before the British Nationality Act was adopted and raised in Protestant faith.


Could one of the many knowledgeable members of this board set the record straight: can any descendant of Electress Sophia or anyone in the Line of the Succession to the British Throne automatically qualify for British citizenship?
Another question: The Sophie Naturalization Act didn’t exclusively refer to the legitimate descendants only; would that mean even illegitimate descendants of the Electress (or rather, illegitimate descendants of her descendants) would qualify for British Citizenship (assuming they were born before 1948, if the British Nationality Act canceled the Sophia Naturalization Act, as I believe it to be the case)?
__________________

__________________
Audentes fortuna iuvat - Fortune favours the bold *** ... ***Amore, more, ore, re - Love, behaviour, words, actions *** ... ***Aquila non capit muscas - An eagle does not hunt flies
Reply With Quote
  #663  
Old 07-04-2009, 05:14 PM
MAfan's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N/A, Italy
Posts: 4,375
As far as I know, any person who is a descendant of Electress Sophia, born before 1948 and Protestant (all the three conditions are needed) is automatically a British Citizen.
Nothing is said about the necessity of being a legitimate descendant; the act is referred to the "issue of her body"; so I don't think that the act is valid only for the legitimate descendants.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #664  
Old 07-05-2009, 06:37 AM
Marsel's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 966
Thank you MAfan.
That's more or less what I thought, however the book I referred to was very clear that any descendant of the late Electress (without exceptions or restrictions) would automatically qualify, which I didn't find very plausible.
This just adds to a number of other inaccuracies in the book, mind you.

I assume that by "Protestant" faith, they don't exclusively mean the "Church of England" and other Protestant Churches would be fine as well.
__________________
Audentes fortuna iuvat - Fortune favours the bold *** ... ***Amore, more, ore, re - Love, behaviour, words, actions *** ... ***Aquila non capit muscas - An eagle does not hunt flies
Reply With Quote
  #665  
Old 07-05-2009, 06:45 AM
MAfan's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N/A, Italy
Posts: 4,375
I guess that it refers to all the Protestant Churches; and I guess that its originary meaning was "not Catholic" rather then Protestant in the very meaning of the word...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #666  
Old 07-05-2009, 07:30 AM
H.M. Margrethe's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Odense, Denmark
Posts: 825
Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
I agree this is the sole reason for her decision. It would not have been acceptable, given that Diana was the mother of William and Harry and died with the style "Princess of Wales".

But that accomodation must end when Charles becomes King. Diana was never going to be Queen and Camilla will be the wife of The King with her own rights as Queen Consort.
Diana once said in a interwive that the one thing she realy wich to be was to be Queen of hearts nothing els.
Well let Diana be the Queen of hearts and Camilla be the Queen Consort
__________________
Long live the royal family in Denmark

Reply With Quote
  #667  
Old 07-05-2009, 07:38 AM
Marsel's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 966
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
I guess that it refers to all the Protestant Churches; and I guess that its originary meaning was "not Catholic" rather then Protestant in the very meaning of the word...
I think so as well. I wonder whether that would mean that Orthodox Churches would be acceptable.
Thank you for your answers, MAfan!
__________________
Audentes fortuna iuvat - Fortune favours the bold *** ... ***Amore, more, ore, re - Love, behaviour, words, actions *** ... ***Aquila non capit muscas - An eagle does not hunt flies
Reply With Quote
  #668  
Old 07-05-2009, 08:48 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: N/A, United Kingdom
Posts: 493
[quote=Marsel;961969] I wonder whether that would mean that Orthodox Churches would be acceptable.
/quote]

hello marsel.
i have just checked the line of succession to the british throne, and yes the ex king constantine II, asummimg he is greek orthodox, is listed has being number 428 (when that version was issued (2001) , today his place may have altered due to recent deaths etc).

so i think that should answer your question, and i will check for the russian factor for you, as i feel your question was more aimed at the russian orthodox church then the greek ?

update.
yes grand duchess maria v and her son george , is listed as 111 and 112 in line of succession (again as of 2001). i am asumming that both are russian orthodox !!!

a interesting note is that the "offical" (as published by buckingham palace) line / order of succession to the british throne only lists the first 100 individuals. can anyone please tell us why this is so ?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #669  
Old 07-05-2009, 08:56 AM
MAfan's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N/A, Italy
Posts: 4,375
Yes, Orthodoxes can be in the line of Succession, but are they referred to by the Sophia Naturalization Act 1705? I fear not.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #670  
Old 07-05-2009, 10:54 AM
Marsel's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 966
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAfan
Yes, Orthodoxes can be in the line of Succession, but are they referred to by the Sophia Naturalization Act 1705? I fear not.
Technically, the Line of the Succession is discriminative only towards the Catholics. However, I don't think the Sophia Naturalization Act 1705 covered the Orthodox Churches as well. A really shrewd lawyer could probably prove that the 'Protestant' in the Act meant 'non-Catholic' though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnydep
i have just checked the line of succession to the british throne, and yes the ex king constantine II, asummimg he is greek orthodox, is listed has being number 428 (when that version was issued (2001) , today his place may have altered due to recent deaths etc).

so i think that should answer your question, and i will check for the russian factor for you, as i feel your question was more aimed at the russian orthodox church then the greek ?

update.
yes grand duchess maria v and her son george , is listed as 111 and 112 in line of succession (again as of 2001). i am asumming that both are russian orthodox !!!
Thank you for the information, jonnydep.
I was indeed more interested whether the Russian Orthodox Church would qualify as 'Protestant' mentioned in the Sophia Naturalization Act 1705.

Quote:
a interesting note is that the "offical" (as published by buckingham palace) line / order of succession to the british throne only lists the first 100 individuals. can anyone please tell us why this is so ?[
I suppose only the first 100 are listed because there are few circumstances under which anyone would need to know the names of anyone further down the line of the succession. I think at one point, the official website listed only the first 20 people in the Line of the succession.

It's only those interested in genealogy and succession issues (like the members of the Royal Forum), who would ever like or need to know other people in the Line of the Succession and their claims.
__________________
Audentes fortuna iuvat - Fortune favours the bold *** ... ***Amore, more, ore, re - Love, behaviour, words, actions *** ... ***Aquila non capit muscas - An eagle does not hunt flies
Reply With Quote
  #671  
Old 07-05-2009, 11:17 AM
MAfan's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N/A, Italy
Posts: 4,375
Well, only the first 39 people are members of the present British Royal Family; only the first 54 are descendants of King Geore V, and nly the first 84 are descendants of King Edward VII, including the members of a present Royal Family (Norway). Then starts the long list of all the other people (1600 ca) who have rights to the British Throne, belonging to all the other european Royal Families, less or more. And all this list is quite useless, I don't think that one day we need a King whose position is n. 813 in the Line of Succession, for example...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #672  
Old 07-05-2009, 11:51 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: N/A, United Kingdom
Posts: 493
another interesting note, is that i have just read the following

" the sovereign must, in addition, to be in communation with the church of england and must swear to preserve the established church of england (and that of scotland) and uphold the protestant line of succession".

does this mean that if a greek or russian orthodox were to succeed to the british throne, they may have to renounce that faith and covert to the established church of england to be sovereign ........ ?.

one must remember that the sovereign is also the head of the church.
it would seem a little odd that the head of the church is a member of the greek / russian orthodox church !!!!!.

another question i have is concerning camilla, duchess of cornwall.

whlist married to her former husband andrew parker- bowles, whom is a catholic, did she convert over to his faith, and if so, did she (on her divorce) covert back to the church of england ? .

the reason i ask, should be odivous..........
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #673  
Old 07-05-2009, 11:55 AM
MAfan's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N/A, Italy
Posts: 4,375
I guess she is Anglican; something like Prince Michael, who has married a Catholis but who is Anglican...But Camilla's first marriage is ended in a divorce, and here is the problem: a future head of the Anglican Church (that refuses the divorce) who is married to a divorced woman...
About your first question, it seems that this person has to convert...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #674  
Old 07-05-2009, 12:03 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: N/A, United Kingdom
Posts: 493
yes, i understand, anything after the first 100 shown in the line of succession would be rather academic !!!

thank you marsel and mafan........
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #675  
Old 07-05-2009, 01:41 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
I guess she is Anglican; something like Prince Michael, who has married a Catholis but who is Anglican...But Camilla's first marriage is ended in a divorce, and here is the problem: a future head of the Anglican Church (that refuses the divorce) who is married to a divorced woman...
About your first question, it seems that this person has to convert...
Camilla remained Anglican during her marriage to Parker-Bowles, so there was no issue there. The Church now recognizes divorce and remarriage, so there was no obstacle to Charles and Camilla marrying, especially since Charles was considered to be a widower, rather than a divorcee, in the eyes of the Church.

The matter was a political one, in terms of whether the Government was prepared to consent to it. Since the public was willing to accept it, Blair and the Archbishop of Canterbury both gave their approval.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #676  
Old 07-05-2009, 01:52 PM
MAfan's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N/A, Italy
Posts: 4,375
Did they really need the consent of the Government? Not only the consent of the Queen and/or of her Privy Council?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #677  
Old 07-05-2009, 04:14 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 3,989
Quote:
does this mean that if a greek or russian orthodox were to succeed to the british throne, they may have to renounce that faith and covert to the established church of england to be sovereign ........ ?.

one must remember that the sovereign is also the head of the church.
it would seem a little odd that the head of the church is a member of the greek / russian orthodox church !!!!
This brings up an interesting thought that I found earlier on this illustrious forum. Somewhere it has been stated that one thought of the Prince of Wales when he accedes the throne was thinking he'd prefer the title of "Defender of Faiths" rather than Defender of the Faith. I think this would be due to the fact that the UK (as anywhere else) is a global community as far as practices of faith go.

About Camilla and faith. I believe she stayed with her Angelican faith but upon marriage to APB promised that their children would be raised Catholic.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #678  
Old 07-05-2009, 04:21 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 3,989
Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
I agree this is the sole reason for her decision. It would not have been acceptable, given that Diana was the mother of William and Harry and died with the style "Princess of Wales".
Another reason is that I've come to realize Camilla is also a woman of grace and class in that she realizes its not whatever title and style she is known by, but her duty and actions that reflect on her husband the Prince of Wales and King Charles in the future. She's a very down to earth person and in that respect I think she's alot like HM.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #679  
Old 07-05-2009, 05:59 PM
wbenson's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: -, United States
Posts: 2,243
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
Did they really need the consent of the Government? Not only the consent of the Queen and/or of her Privy Council?
The government is a subset of the Privy Council (I believe the cabinet is actually a committee of the council), and they are the only members of the Privy Council who give constitutional advice to the Queen on a day-to-day basis, so getting consent from the Privy Council is the same as getting consent from the government.
__________________
TRF rules and FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #680  
Old 07-05-2009, 06:17 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
Did they really need the consent of the Government? Not only the consent of the Queen and/or of her Privy Council?
The Queen could not have granted her consent without taking advice from the Privy Council, which constitutionally she must do. But the important consent would be The Prime Minister's after taking soundings in the Cabinet and the Commons.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
british royal family, consort, spouse, styles and titles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Questions About [non-British] Styles and Titles Lord Sosnowitz Royal Ceremony and Protocol 729 10-09-2014 04:24 PM
Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children Aussie Princess Prince Harry and Prince William 1110 07-12-2014 10:00 PM
Diana's Styles and Titles florawindsor Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 573 11-14-2013 11:59 AM
Styles and Titles Nahla10 Ruling Family of Dubai 36 08-08-2013 12:05 PM
Abdication Beatrix and Inauguration WA: Titles, Names, Succession, Precedence Princess Robijn Abdication & Inauguration 2013 67 05-24-2013 03:14 PM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
abdication birth carl philip charlene crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events duchess of cambridge engagement fashion genealogy grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jewellery jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg nobility olympic games ottoman poland pom president hollande prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince pieter-christiaan princess anita princess beatrix princess charlene princess laurentien princess mabel princess margriet princess mary princess mary fashion queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague visit wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:16 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]