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  #621  
Old 01-24-2009, 10:19 AM
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I am curious... If a non-royal duke's lesser titles spread down to his eldest son, and eldest grandson, if all three are alive at the same time, and the duke has multiple titles, then why is Prince Charles not Earl of Merioneth, and Prince William not Baron Greenwich?
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  #622  
Old 01-24-2009, 10:50 AM
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They have titles in their own right - they don't need courtesy titles.
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  #623  
Old 01-24-2009, 01:49 PM
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What will happen to the other titles Greenwich and Merioneth???
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  #624  
Old 01-24-2009, 04:00 PM
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So because of that, they do not pass down? I am still curious as to what makes them different, say from the Duke of Kent, Duke of Gloucester? I know their sons and grandsons are not HRH's, but they still have their lesser titles in use.

I tried researching it, but to no avail, cannot find a reason why Charles is not Earl of Merioneth and William is not Baron Greenwich.

Thank you to those who replied.
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  #625  
Old 01-24-2009, 04:22 PM
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When a dukedom ceases to be royal

courtesy titles come into play. Great grandchildren of the monarch are not HRHs with one exception.

The difference with the DoE is that his heirs will inherit the throne, and therefore the title will merge with the crown.
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  #626  
Old 01-24-2009, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Royal Fan View Post
What will happen to the other titles Greenwich and Merioneth???

If everything goes according to plan i.e. Charles inherits the Edinburgh title and it then merges with the Crown it will be up to Charles to decide what to do with them. As Edward already has an earldom and a Viscountcy (sp) then I would assume that both Merioneth and Greenwich would remain available for a subsequent regrant at a later date - maybe to William's second son for instance.

If, by some unlucky accident, Charles, William, Harry and Andrew all predecease Philip Philip and the Queen, without leaving legitimate male issue and thus Beatrice becomes Queen but Edward inherits the Edinburgh title in his own right then he would also get the Merioneth and Greenwich titles.

If, as I outlined above, William has a daughter, and then both Charles and William die before the title merges with the Crown (namely that both William and Charles die before The Queen), then Harry would inherit the Edinburgh, Merioneth and Greenwich titles outright.
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  #627  
Old 01-24-2009, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade View Post
So because of that, they do not pass down? I am still curious as to what makes them different, say from the Duke of Kent, Duke of Gloucester? I know their sons and grandsons are not HRH's, but they still have their lesser titles in use.

I tried researching it, but to no avail, cannot find a reason why Charles is not Earl of Merioneth and William is not Baron Greenwich.

Thank you to those who replied.
You actually answered your own question - the Duke of Kent and Duke of Gloucester's sons and grandsons use the courtesy titles because they don't have the HRH.

Because Charles and William have the HRH they don't use the courtesy titles.

Had George VI not issued the new LPs in 1948 giving the HRH to the children of the then Princess Elizabeth then Charles would have used the Earl of Merioneth title until he became Duke of Cornwell in 1952.

The HRH is a senior title/style than a mere courtesy title. It is substantive and is generally held by the person born with it for life.

The Dukes of Kent and Gloucester are both HRH and never used the St Andrews or Ulster titles when they were the heirs to their father's titles because of the HRH. It is because their sons don't have the HRH that the courtesy titles come into play. The present Duke of Gloucrester's older brother also never used the courtesy title while heir to his father. When I say never I am referring to officially as they might have used it to travel incognito but still with a modicum of title about them.
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  #628  
Old 01-24-2009, 06:39 PM
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Courtesy titles are irrelevant when you have your own title (i.e. HRH Prince William of Wales), which takes precedence over all other styles.

The Edinburgh dukedom will likely be recreated as the "1st Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Wessex and Viscount Severn" for Edward after Charles is King and their father has passed on.
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  #629  
Old 02-23-2009, 01:03 PM
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If Prince and princess Michael would divorce, what would be the title of Princess Michael?
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  #630  
Old 02-23-2009, 01:39 PM
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I believe that she would be known as Baroness Marie Christine von Reibnitz (her premarital title). Her husband doesn't hold a peerage title, so she can't be known as divorced wife of a peer.
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  #631  
Old 02-23-2009, 04:55 PM
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Marie-Christine would lose the style of a Princess, as the 1996 Letters Patent make clear a former wife of a Prince of the UK is not entitled to hold or enjoy the HRH upon divorce. Although The Sovereign can choose to do otherwise, it is not a given.

More likely, she might be granted a courtesy style (i.e. Lady Marie-Christine Windsor) as a divorcee until she remarried.
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  #632  
Old 02-23-2009, 10:06 PM
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She had a title before her marriage. I would think she would simply revert back to Baroness..
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  #633  
Old 02-24-2009, 03:21 PM
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It would be entirely up to The Sovereign as to what, if any, style or title she would hold. If given no style, then she would be Marie-Christine Windsor legally (if she chose) or could revert to her pre-marital name.

"Baroness" is a mere courtesy style, especially since she is not of German royal blood. Her mother, however, was from an ancient Austrian-Hungarian noble family.
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  #634  
Old 02-24-2009, 04:44 PM
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There is something about historical novels that always irritates me. Some of them refer to a certain British nobleman as the Marquis of X. I always thought that the correct British term is Marquess (and the female variation Marchioness).

Are there any British nobles called Marquis of X, or have these authors failed to do their research?
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  #635  
Old 02-24-2009, 05:39 PM
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Are there any British nobles called Marquis of X, or have these authors failed to do their research?
Marquess is the English version of Marquis which is French/Spanish.

It's roughly the same, although the Peerage in the UK is not equivalent to the old ancien regime in France or the grandees in Spain.
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  #636  
Old 02-26-2009, 02:50 PM
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And if Princess Michael would be widow, what would her title be? Would she remain HRH the Princess Michael?
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  #637  
Old 02-26-2009, 04:10 PM
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That's a good question. Husband's name is usually dropped from usage when there is no husband anymore (i.e. Princess Henry reverted to The Princess Beatrice after her husband's death). However, Princess Michael of Kent doesn't have a princely title of her own. I doubt she would revert to Baroness
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  #638  
Old 02-26-2009, 04:16 PM
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That's a good question. Husband's name is usually dropped from usage when there is no husband anymore (i.e. Princess Henry reverted to The Princess Beatrice after her husband's death). However, Princess Michael of Kent doesn't have a princely title of her own. I doubt she would revert to Baroness
Well I certainly agree with you on this. Baroness? No way.
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  #639  
Old 02-26-2009, 04:23 PM
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maybe she would be treated as the widows of younger sons of a peer...for example, Lady Randolph Churchill continued to use this title after the death of lord Randolph, or Lady Charles Cavendish, nèe Adele Astaire...
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  #640  
Old 02-27-2009, 07:56 AM
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And if Princess Michael would be widow, what would her title be? Would she remain HRH the Princess Michael?
She still would be Princess Michael of Kent as a widow. Her title reflects her marriage, whether her husband is alive or not.
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Husband's name is usually dropped from usage when there is no husband anymore (i.e. Princess Henry reverted to The Princess Beatrice after her husband's death).
It does not get dropped. In the Greek Royal House, for example, both Princess Andrew and Princess Nicholas remained styled as such after the deaths of their husbands.
Princess Beatrice was the daughter of a Sovereign and it was entirely her choice to revert to her birthright style of HRH The Princess Beatrice after Prince Henry died.
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