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  #581  
Old 11-30-2008, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velasco View Post
When the Duke of York dies, will his eldest daughter inherit the duchy?
No, she won't. The Dukedom of York only passes to heirs male. When Andrew dies, it will become extinct.

From the London Gazette of 23 July 1986. (PDF file)

Quote:
HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN has been pleased to direct
Letters Patent to be passed under the Great Seal of the
Realm, to bear this day's date, granting unto Her
Majesty's Son, His Royal Highness Prince Andrew
Albert Christian Edward cvo and the heirs male of
his body lawfully begotten
, the dignities of BARON
KILLYLEAGH, EARL OF INVERNESS and DUKE OF YORK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velasco View Post
If so, why is she not permitted use of the courtesy title usually held by the heir?
Even if she could inherit it, women don't use courtesy titles. And even if she was a boy, princes don't use courtesy titles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velasco View Post
Also, when Beatrice and Eugenie marry, if they were to marry a non-royal, will they lose HRH and royal title?
No. Princess Alexandra (the most recent royal granddaughter I can think of) didn't when she married a non-royal. (Neither did Princess Anne or Princess Margaret.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velasco View Post
Or is there any possibility of Queen Elizabeth (or whoever is monarch at the time) elevating their husbands-to-be to the rank of Prince (like was done prior to her marriage for Prince Philip, who was temporarily a commoner).
I don't see why not.

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Originally Posted by Velasco View Post
And Viscount Severn, will his children and grandchildren be HRH also?
No. Only children and male-line grandchildren of the sovereign are entitled to that.
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  #582  
Old 11-30-2008, 08:10 PM
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Ah, I see.
So there is a chance that the Duchy of York will revert to the Crown and Harry will , in time, be made Duke of York? Nice

However, isn't Viscount Severn a prince? And yet he still uses the courtesy title...how comes?
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  #583  
Old 11-30-2008, 08:15 PM
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His parents decided to pretend he's not, basically. Technically, he's HRH Prince James of Wessex. (And Louise is technically HRH Princess Louise of Wessex).
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  #584  
Old 11-30-2008, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velasco View Post
Ah, I see.
So there is a chance that the Duchy of York will revert to the Crown and Harry will , in time, be made Duke of York? Nice

However, isn't Viscount Severn a prince? And yet he still uses the courtesy title...how comes?

Harry could only become Duke of York on the death of the present holder of that title, a man who is currently only 48 years old.

In all likelihood Andrew could easily live to 90 meaning Harry would be 66. I suspect that Harry would get his own dukedom sometime before that.
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  #585  
Old 11-30-2008, 10:19 PM
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Has any royal ever been given a peerage when there are still others using that designation in their style? (What I mean is, is it likely that someone would ever be created, for example, Duke of York when there are still children of the previous holder called Prince(ss) N of York around?)
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  #586  
Old 11-30-2008, 10:23 PM
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Not likely. There are no shortages of old titles that can be used or new ones created.
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  #587  
Old 11-30-2008, 10:32 PM
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Oh yes...I forgot about that situation. Thank you for reminding me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
It would be the same situation that George V was in in 1901 when he was known as the Duke of Cornwall and York.

He had been created Duke of York by his grandmother and then inherited Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay when Victoria died. During the majority of that year (except in Scotland where Rothesay is used instead of Cornwall) he was known as the Duke of Cornwall and York.

Those were the titles used to describe him when he opened the first Australian Parliament on 9th May 1901 with his Duchess (later Queen Mary) by his side.
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  #588  
Old 11-30-2008, 10:33 PM
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If Beatrice and Eugenie marry at anything like a normal age, there won't be any "of York" descendants around anyway. I doubt Harry would be created Duke of York while the Queen was still alive, even if he married. He'd maybe get an earldom and then be created Duke of York by his father after Beatrice and Eugenie were both married and no longer using "of York."
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  #589  
Old 11-30-2008, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
If Beatrice and Eugenie marry at anything like a normal age, there won't be any "of York" descendants around anyway. I doubt Harry would be created Duke of York while the Queen was still alive, even if he married. He'd maybe get an earldom and then be created Duke of York by his father after Beatrice and Eugenie were both married and no longer using "of York."

Princess Margaret was known originally as Princess Margaret of York and she was most certainly around when Andrew was created Duke of York.

The same thing with the children of George V, who had been born with the of York - Edward VIII, George VI, Mary and Henry, were all still alive when George V gave the future George VI the York title. George VI was born Albert of York and then became Duke of York in his own right despite the title having merged with the crown (normally for a son to have that happen he would be inheriting the title from his father e.g. the present Duke of Kent was Prince Edward of Kent until his father died).
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  #590  
Old 11-30-2008, 10:46 PM
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What about Prince Andrew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
If Beatrice and Eugenie marry at anything like a normal age, there won't be any "of York" descendants around anyway. I doubt Harry would be created Duke of York while the Queen was still alive, even if he married. He'd maybe get an earldom and then be created Duke of York by his father after Beatrice and Eugenie were both married and no longer using "of York."
He'll most likely be using the Duke of York title for another 40 years or more. In theory, he could also still produce a son.

Harry won't be Duke of York.
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  #591  
Old 11-30-2008, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Princess Margaret was known originally as Princess Margaret of York and she was most certainly around when Andrew was created Duke of York.

The same thing with the children of George V, who had been born with the of York - Edward VIII, George VI, Mary and Henry, were all still alive when George V gave the future George VI the York title. George VI was born Albert of York and then became Duke of York in his own right despite the title having merged with the crown (normally for a son to have that happen he would be inheriting the title from his father e.g. the present Duke of Kent was Prince Edward of Kent until his father died).
Yes but. When Margaret become The Princess Margaret, she was no longer Princess Margaret of York. That pre-dated the creation of Duke of York for Andrew.
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  #592  
Old 11-30-2008, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yvr girl View Post
He'll most likely be using the Duke of York title for another 40 years or more. In theory, he could also still produce a son.

Harry won't be Duke of York.
Well, obviously he won't be Duke of York in Andrew's lifetime, but the hypothetical question didn't ask about that; it was talking specifically about descendants, and I'm sure it was understood that two people don't get to be Duke of York simultaneously.
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  #593  
Old 11-30-2008, 11:13 PM
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I'd forgotten that they'd stop being "of York" if they get married. For some reason I was thinking it stuck with them forever as it does with younger sons (and completely forgetting that Princess Alexandra was once Princess Alexandra of Kent).
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  #594  
Old 12-01-2008, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimebear View Post
Yes but. When Margaret become The Princess Margaret, she was no longer Princess Margaret of York. That pre-dated the creation of Duke of York for Andrew.
Of course but I was making the point that descendents of a Duke of York, who had held the style 'of York' were still alive at the creation of the last two Dukes of York.

In which case there shouldn't be a problem if Beatrice and/or Eugenie were still alive when the next creation takes place.
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  #595  
Old 12-01-2008, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Of course but I was making the point that descendents of a Duke of York, who had held the style 'of York' were still alive at the creation of the last two Dukes of York.

In which case there shouldn't be a problem if Beatrice and/or Eugenie were still alive when the next creation takes place.
Except that the last two Dukes of York became King. Their children are no longer considered 'of York' , they become The Prince or The Princess.
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  #596  
Old 12-01-2008, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yvr girl View Post
Except that the last two Dukes of York became King. Their children are no longer considered 'of York' , they become The Prince or The Princess.

Of course but we have been talking about, at least I have, about people being alive who had used the 'of York' at some time in their lifetime being alive when the next Duke of York was created.
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  #597  
Old 12-01-2008, 11:36 PM
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It can be a little gray in areas. When her father and mother were still styled HRH the Duke and Duchess of York, she was HRH Princess Margaret of York. When her father became king, she was HRH THE Princess Margaret of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reflecting her status as the daughter of a reigning monarch. When she married, and her husband became an Earl, she was then HRH the Princess Margaret, Countess of Snowdon, Viscountess Linley (until her son was born), to reflect her husband's title.

Please correct me if I have any of this wrong..

But I believe after her father became king, the Duke of York title went back to the Crown, so if he had, say two sons, he could create them using the titles Prince of Wales and the second son Duke of York. Since he had two daughters, this did not happen. However, we saw of course this happen when Princess Elizabeth became queen, she made her first son Prince of Wales, and then Andrew Duke of York on his wedding day.

Whoosh...lot to type..
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  #598  
Old 01-16-2009, 09:22 AM
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British princes - Princes of Greece and Denmark?

We all know that The Duke of Edinburgh supposedly renounced his titles of Prince of Greece and Denmark. We also know that his children and male-line grandchildren never use these titles. But is there something we don't know?

Did the Duke of Edinburgh simply choose not to use these titles or did he sign some kind of a document which legally deprived him of the titles? If he simply chose not to use them, then his children were legally Greek princes until 1974 and they are still Danish princes (unless the title of Prince of Denmark is limited only to descendants of Christian X, like the succession). I find that very interesting. All British princes from George III to Victoria were princes of Hanover; from Edward VII to George V princes of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha and dukes in Saxony; and now they could all be princes of Denmark until a female ascends the British throne again

So, could (e.g) Princess Beatrice choose to add "Denmark" (and possibly a pretence to the Greek title) to her list of titles? Something like "Princess Beatrice of York and Denmark" or "Princess Beatrice of York, Greece and Denmark"? Is she legally entitled to it? If she is, then referring to Diana, Princess of Wales as Princess Diana is not wrong after all (since a married woman's own name is used in Denmark)
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  #599  
Old 01-16-2009, 09:31 AM
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Wikipedia reported that "Louis Mountbatten urged Philip to renounce his Greek and Danish royal titles, as well as his allegiance to the Greek crown, convert from Greek Orthodoxy to the Church of England, and become a naturalised British subject,[N 3] all of which was done by 18 March 1947"; however, all we know that not all is reported by Wikipedia is right or correct...
If there are no documents stating the renounciaton, I think your theory is correct.
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  #600  
Old 01-16-2009, 09:32 AM
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You have raised a very interesting point and I am waiting to hear what the experts say.
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