The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #521  
Old 05-29-2008, 03:11 PM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,945
Taking into consideration that the Welsh want devolution, they may successfully object to William being made a Prince of Wales if and when the time comes. It is not an automatic title.

The Royal Family > Royal titles > Style and titles of The Prince of Wales
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #522  
Old 05-29-2008, 03:20 PM
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: ***, United States
Posts: 16,894
A person can always hope...
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #523  
Old 05-29-2008, 03:39 PM
PrinceOfCanada's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Presuming they marry within the year and not in the far distant future her name will be Princess William of Wales! William may not be made The Prince of Wales at all, there is no guarantee.
*sigh*

Yes. I was talking about one permutation of the situation. And, frankly, once Charles accedes he will almost certainly create Wills PoW, at which point--yes, you guessed it--she will be HRH The Princess of Wales.

The only situation in which it can be guaranteed that she will never become PoW is if Charles predeceases EIIR. The likelihood that he will not create his own son PoW is vanishingly remote.
Reply With Quote
  #524  
Old 05-29-2008, 03:58 PM
Skydragon's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London and Highlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 10,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceOfCanada View Post
Yes. I was talking about one permutation of the situation. And, frankly, once Charles accedes he will almost certainly create Wills PoW, at which point--yes, you guessed it--she will be HRH The Princess of Wales.

The only situation in which it can be guaranteed that she will never become PoW is if Charles predeceases EIIR. The likelihood that he will not create his own son PoW is vanishingly remote.
And I was replying to this post originally, which is concerned with the near future, not a dot in the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomlyKeira View Post
You're welcome everyone, and I completely agree with Ghost Night, I think that these photos are really the first photos that I've seen where I could see Kate and Chelsy being the next Princesses (especially Chelsy). I think they proved themselves this day, and I think that Kate being able to be there by herself (without William) shows that she could do the kind of duties that would be required of the Princess of Wales. She needs to be albe to stand on her own two feet without William...
If and when Charles becomes King, the choice may not be his as to whether he is allowed by the Welsh government or indeed any government to hand out titles. With a vast amount of people who are not at all interested in the monarchy, as I said there can be no guarantee. The title Prince of Wales may die out when Charles becomes King.
Reply With Quote
  #525  
Old 05-29-2008, 04:06 PM
PrinceOfCanada's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 356
Titles are the exclusive province of the Monarch. It certainly will be his choice. Whether it's politically expedient or not is another matter.

And I wouldn't really say 'vast' numbers. Republicanism in the UK sits around 18%, if memory served--a number that hasn't changed since 1965 or something.

Quote:
And I was replying to this post originally, which is concerned with the near future, not a dot in the future.
Which really, really doesn't matter. It is overwhelmingly likely that yes, she will be HRH T PoW one day.
Reply With Quote
  #526  
Old 05-29-2008, 04:33 PM
wbenson's Avatar
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: -, United States
Posts: 2,262
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceOfCanada View Post
The only situation in which it can be guaranteed that she will never become PoW is if Charles predeceases EIIR.
She still could be then. George III was created Prince of Wales by his grandfather after his father (also the Prince of Wales) died.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceOfCanada View Post
Titles are the exclusive province of the Monarch.
Unless the government of the day advises the monarch otherwise. (Though I would think it would have to come from the PM, not anyone in the Welsh government, at least not under the current arrangement; the First Minister of Wales is only qualified to offer official advice to the monarch on devolved matters.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceOfCanada View Post
And I wouldn't really say 'vast' numbers. Republicanism in the UK sits around 18%, if memory served--a number that hasn't changed since 1965 or something.
18% of the population of the UK is a pretty vast number. (Not saying others aren't more vast, though.)
Reply With Quote
  #527  
Old 05-31-2008, 05:12 PM
Avalon's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,904
It is very likely that the Queen will give a title (most likely that of a Duke) to Prince William upon his marriage, so whoever marries William, probably is going to be known as X, The Duchess of Y anyway.
__________________
Queen Elizabeth: "I cannot lead you into battle, I do not give you laws or administer justice but I can do something else, I can give you my heart and my devotion to these old islands and to all the peoples of our brotherhood of nations." God, Save The Queen!
Reply With Quote
  #528  
Old 05-31-2008, 05:14 PM
BeatrixFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,842
Not quite. She'll be HRH The Duchess of Y.
Reply With Quote
  #529  
Old 05-31-2008, 05:30 PM
Avalon's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Yerevan, Armenia
Posts: 5,904
Indeed, she would be HRH X, Duchess of Y. Thanks for correcting Beatrixfan!
__________________
Queen Elizabeth: "I cannot lead you into battle, I do not give you laws or administer justice but I can do something else, I can give you my heart and my devotion to these old islands and to all the peoples of our brotherhood of nations." God, Save The Queen!
Reply With Quote
  #530  
Old 06-01-2008, 02:18 PM
wbenson's Avatar
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: -, United States
Posts: 2,262
She wouldn't be X except in popular culture.
Reply With Quote
  #531  
Old 06-02-2008, 02:29 AM
Jo of Palatine's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 3,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon View Post
Indeed, she would be HRH X, Duchess of Y. Thanks for correcting Beatrixfan!
She will be simply HRH The Duchess of Y. But she will have the privilege of signing her letters only with her first name.

There was a vivid discussion when the Duke of York in 1923 wanted to marry a non-royal who was "only" an earl's daughter about the questiuon if this mere earl's daughter should have the same rights as the women born Royal. They even looked intensively into the past to Lady Anne Hyde and tried to figure out if back then there were rules on how Lady Anne signed after her marriage into the Royal family but they couldn't find consistent proof that the people back then had even thought about that.

So they advised HM to follow the rule that a wife takes her rank from her husband, thus Lady Elizabthe Bowes-Lyon was considered Royal after her marriage and signed herself only "Elizabeth" and not "Elizabeth York" like a peeress who takes her first name plus the name part of her husband's/her own title.
__________________
'To dare is to lose one step for but a moment, not to dare is to lose oneself forever' - Crown Prince Frederick of Denmark in a letter to Miss Mary Donaldson as stated by them on their official engagement interview.
Reply With Quote
  #532  
Old 06-02-2008, 08:09 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Technically, she would sign her name as "Elizabeth, Duchess of York" as the wife of a Peer. Because she was marrying a son of the Sovereign, it was agreed she automatically took the rank of her husband as HRH and a princess ("HRH The Princess Albert"). She then would sign her name as "Elizabeth".

Ironically, when this question arose again with the marriage of Edward and Wallis, the Government found it convenient to overlook this conclusion reached in 1923 and state "royal rank was at the discretion of the Sovereign" and not automatic.
Reply With Quote
  #533  
Old 06-02-2008, 08:30 AM
Menarue's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Cascais, Portugal
Posts: 2,155
Was Kate Middleton actually representing Prince William at the wedding? Surely she, as a friend, would be invited to the wedding and just because Prince William couldn´t be present wouldn´t be a reason to uninvite her. She and Chelsy were sitting in privileged seats so she may well have been representing him....
Reply With Quote
  #534  
Old 06-02-2008, 09:44 AM
PrinceOfCanada's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
Technically, she would sign her name as "Elizabeth, Duchess of York" as the wife of a Peer. Because she was marrying a son of the Sovereign, it was agreed she automatically took the rank of her husband as HRH and a princess ("HRH The Princess Albert"). She then would sign her name as "Elizabeth".
My understanding is that peers & peeresses are all entitled to sign with their first name only.

Quote:
Ironically, when this question arose again with the marriage of Edward and Wallis, the Government found it convenient to overlook this conclusion reached in 1923 and state "royal rank was at the discretion of the Sovereign" and not automatic.
That's not really irony, it's expediency. That being said, the monarchy has always reserved to itself the right to grant or deny titles, styles, and rank.
Reply With Quote
  #535  
Old 06-23-2008, 08:12 AM
Warren's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 15,479
Here's something interesting...
From Royal Insight, May 2005:

Can you please give us more information on the life of Princess Mary, daughter of King George V and Queen Mary?

Princess Mary was born on April 25, 1897 at York Cottage on the Sandringham Estate in Norfolk, England.

Her father was His Royal Highness Prince George, Duke of York (later King George V), the second eldest son of King Edward VII. Her mother was Her Royal Highness The Duchess of York (later Queen Mary), the only daughter of The Duke of Teck.

As a great-granddaughter of Queen Victoria, Mary was styled Her Highness Princess Mary of York from birth.

[my bolding] From her birth in 1897 to the death of Queen Victoria on 22 January 1901 Princess Mary was a "mere" HH. Did this lesser style apply only to females, or were her brothers Princes Albert and Henry also HHs for a short time, while the eldest son, Edward, was an HRH?

We are familiar with the Letters Patent of 1917 stipulating who holds the HRH, but what was the situation prior to that revision? Edward VII in 1905 raised his granddaughters Ladies Alexandra and Maud Duff to the rank of Princess with the style of Highness, and Prince Alastair of Connaught was an HH Prince of Great Britain and Ireland from his birth in 1914 until 1917. The only other cases I can recall of the use of HH (albeit after George V's Letters Patent) are the Princesses Helena Victoria and Marie Louise who relinquished their German titles of Schleswig-Holstein and Anhalt respectively in 1917 to become HH Princesses [of nothing].
__________________
Seeking information? Check out the extensive Royal A-Z
Reply With Quote
  #536  
Old 06-23-2008, 02:45 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Richland Center, United States
Posts: 108
Wasn't the son of Prince and Princess Arthur of Connaught briefly known as "HH Prince Alistair of Connaught"?
Reply With Quote
  #537  
Old 06-24-2008, 05:55 AM
Warren's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 15,479
Yes, I've mentioned Prince Alastair in the second line of the last paragraph.
__________________
Seeking information? Check out the extensive Royal A-Z
Reply With Quote
  #538  
Old 06-24-2008, 10:53 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Richland Center, United States
Posts: 108
Warren, Oops, sorry about that. I should have read your post more closely.
Reply With Quote
  #539  
Old 06-25-2008, 08:23 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren View Post
From her birth in 1897 to the death of Queen Victoria on 22 January 1901 Princess Mary was a "mere" HH. Did this lesser style apply only to females, or were her brothers Princes Albert and Henry also HHs for a short time, while the eldest son, Edward, was an HRH?

We are familiar with the Letters Patent of 1917 stipulating who holds the HRH, but what was the situation prior to that revision? Edward VII in 1905 raised his granddaughters Ladies Alexandra and Maud Duff to the rank of Princess with the style of Highness, and Prince Alastair of Connaught was an HH Prince of Great Britain and Ireland from his birth in 1914 until 1917. The only other cases I can recall of the use of HH (albeit after George V's Letters Patent) are the Princesses Helena Victoria and Marie Louise who relinquished their German titles of Schleswig-Holstein and Anhalt respectively in 1917 to become HH Princesses [of nothing].
Prior to the 1917 Letters Patent, great-grandchildren in the male-line of The Sovereign held the title and style of HH Prince/Princess of Great Britain and Ireland. Grandchildren of The Sovereign in the male-line held the rank of HRH.

Prince Eddy was still alive when The Duke and Duchess of York's children were born, so they only held the rank of Highness as great-grandchildren of Queen Victoria. After his death, Prince George became the spare to the throne after his father, so Queen Victoria issued letters patent granting his children the rank of HRH.

Many of Victoria's female line grandchildren and great-grandchildren held titles and styles granted as members of the blood of German royal houses. After these titles were abolished by the Weimar Republic and George V issued the new letters patent, many of them continued to be granted the courtesy of being known as a Princess, even though they were not British princesses, because they had lived most of their lives in Britain.
Reply With Quote
  #540  
Old 06-25-2008, 08:57 AM
Stefan's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Esslingen, Germany
Posts: 2,698
Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg View Post
Prior to the 1917 Letters Patent, great-grandchildren in the male-line of The Sovereign held the title and style of HH Prince/Princess of Great Britain and Ireland. Grandchildren of The Sovereign in the male-line held the rank of HRH.

Prince Eddy was still alive when The Duke and Duchess of York's children were born, so they only held the rank of Highness as great-grandchildren of Queen Victoria. After his death, Prince George became the spare to the throne after his father, so Queen Victoria issued letters patent granting his children the rank of HRH..
Prince Eddy wasn't alive wehen the children of the Duke and Duchess of York were born. He died in 1892 and the future Edward VIII. was born. Also Mary would have married him insteád the future George V. as she was engaged to him.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
british royal family, consort, spouse, styles and titles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children Aussie Princess Prince Harry and Prince William 1115 01-14-2015 03:50 PM
Questions About [non-British] Styles and Titles Lord Sosnowitz Royal Ceremony and Protocol 729 10-09-2014 04:24 PM
Diana's Styles and Titles florawindsor Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 573 11-14-2013 11:59 AM
Styles and Titles Nahla10 Ruling Family of Dubai 36 08-08-2013 12:05 PM
Abdication Beatrix and Inauguration WA: Titles, Names, Succession, Precedence Princess Robijn King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima and family 67 05-24-2013 03:14 PM




Popular Tags
abdication belgium best outfit brussels carl philip crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events death fashion fashion poll grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jordan king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king philippe king willem-alexander letizia luxembourg maxima nobility official visit ottoman picture of the week poland president gauck president komorowski prince carl philip prince daniel prince floris prince henrik princess alexia (2005 -) princess ariane princess astrid princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess madeleine princess mary princess mette-marit princess of asturias queen fabiola queen letizia queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sonja royal royal fashion sofia hellqvist spain state visit stockholm sweden the hague visit wedding willem-alexander



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:42 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2015
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]