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  #481  
Old 12-21-2007, 07:27 AM
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She's got no right to the surname Windsor but she could use it as alot of divorcees use their marital surname after the split. In Marie Christine's case, I think she'd go back to being a von.
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  #482  
Old 12-21-2007, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by sinulord View Post
If Queen Elizabeth II of the UK abdicated, she may also choose to be addressed as HM The Queen Mother of the UK, rather than revert to her title before accession.
That would require an Act of Parliament (which would probably be easy since the abdication does too), as it would grant the style and title of a Queen to a person no longer entitled to it. She couldn't simply choose to be so.

When Edward VIII abdicated, he immediately became HRH Prince Edward (and was announced as so for his radio address), just as the Queen would become HRH Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh.
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  #483  
Old 12-21-2007, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
That would require an Act of Parliament (which would probably be easy since the abdication does too), as it would grant the style and title of a Queen to a person no longer entitled to it. She couldn't simply choose to be so.

When Edward VIII abdicated, he immediately became HRH Prince Edward (and was announced as so for his radio address), just as the Queen would become HRH Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh.
Do you think that after so many years of reign when HM Queen Elizabeth II f.ex. abdicate people will start call her HRH Princess Elizabeth or the Duches of Edinburgh... She always will be HM Queen Elizabeth II.


About Queen Juliana after that what is write on wikipedia after her abdication she was was officially styled as Her Majesty Juliana, Queen Mother of the Netherlands, but she wished to be known as HRH Princess Juliana of the Netherlands.
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  #484  
Old 12-21-2007, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by magnik View Post
Do you think that after so many years of reign when HM Queen Elizabeth II f.ex. abdicate people will start call her HRH Princess Elizabeth or the Duches of Edinburgh... She always will be HM Queen Elizabeth II.
Oh, I know that's what people would call her, it's just not what she would be without an Act of Parliament or a section in the abdication act granting it to her.
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  #485  
Old 12-21-2007, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
Oh, I know that's what people would call her, it's just not what she would be without an Act of Parliament or a section in the abdication act granting it to her.
Right Different wishes of people and the law.
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  #486  
Old 12-21-2007, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by magnik View Post
Right Different wishes of people and the law.
Yes, but the law may also have to go hand in hand with the wishes of the people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
That would require an Act of Parliament (which would probably be easy since the abdication does too), as it would grant the style and title of a Queen to a person no longer entitled to it. She couldn't simply choose to be so. When Edward VIII abdicated, he immediately became HRH Prince Edward (and was announced as so for his radio address), just as the Queen would become HRH Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh.
But wont they give her the option before the enactment of the new title? I'm sure the British parliament (and whoever else is in charge of this matter) would be courteous enough to do so.
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  #487  
Old 12-21-2007, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sinulord View Post
But wont they give her the option before the enactment of the new title? I'm sure the British parliament (and whoever else is in charge of this matter) would be courteous enough to do so.
I'm sure they would, but they wouldn't be obligated to do so.
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  #488  
Old 12-22-2007, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by magnik View Post
About Queen Juliana after that what is write on wikipedia after her abdication she was was officially styled as Her Majesty Juliana, Queen Mother of the Netherlands, but she wished to be known as HRH Princess Juliana of the Netherlands.
She was styled as HRH Princess Juliana of the Netherlands after her abdication. the same as her mother Wilhelmina. Only after the died the are referred as HM Queen of the Netherlands. I think in the case of Wilhelmina there was even a decree from Juliana. In the case of Juliana she is only reffered as HM Queen since after the funeral. You will see that on the offiicial memorial page she is referred as Princess Juliana in the Press Releases.

It is also in the Act of the membeship of the Royal House that an abdicated monarch will become HRH Prince/Princess. So if Beatrix abdicates she becomes HRH Princess Beatrix.
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  #489  
Old 12-22-2007, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
She was styled as HRH Princess Juliana of the Netherlands after her abdication. the same as her mother Wilhelmina. Only after the died the are referred as HM Queen of the Netherlands. I think in the case of Wilhelmina there was even a decree from Juliana. In the case of Juliana she is only reffered as HM Queen since after the funeral. You will see that on the offiicial memorial page she is referred as Princess Juliana in the Press Releases.

It is also in the Act of the membeship of the Royal House that an abdicated monarch will become HRH Prince/Princess. So if Beatrix abdicates she becomes HRH Princess Beatrix.
In the UK court circular Queen Elizabeth II was represented at the Funeral of Queen Juliana of The Netherlands, not at that of Princess Juliana, perhaps it reverted on death
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  #490  
Old 12-23-2007, 03:42 AM
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In the UK court circular Queen Elizabeth II was represented at the Funeral of Queen Juliana of The Netherlands, not at that of Princess Juliana, perhaps it reverted on death
IIRC on the funeral the highest title is used one had possessed in life - because the generations to come will of course remember her as queen Juliana, the predessessor of queen Beatrix. It makes sense that in life there can only be one queen/king regnant - and that is Beatrix at the moment. But in death there are amounts of late queen/King regnants...
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  #491  
Old 12-23-2007, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
IIRC on the funeral the highest title is used one had possessed in life - because the generations to come will of course remember her as queen Juliana, the predessessor of queen Beatrix. It makes sense that in life there can only be one queen/king regnant - and that is Beatrix at the moment. But in death there are amounts of late queen/King regnants...
But Juliana was reffered to as Princess Juliana at the funeral ceremony.

Here you have the order of Service from the funeral.
The Dutch Royal House

Also if you look at the Press releases it is always Princess The Dutch Royal House

Only after the funeral she is called Queen.
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  #492  
Old 12-24-2007, 03:19 AM
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to beatrixfan

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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
The Diana Ring is not at all reliable and there is absolutely no evidence to support what they're saying. They are totally deluded - Prince William has never publicly said he'd give that woman her HRH back.
I believe the late Princess of Wales deserves the respect as she do not deserve being called "that woman" . I believe that he actually said it privately, according to Hello's intervie to andrew morton. It was more of a reassurance from a little boy to her beloved mother. It is William's predicament and we cant do anything but respect it.
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  #493  
Old 12-24-2007, 03:51 AM
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It is William's predicament and we cant do anything but respect it.
We most certainly can. If it's true (which I have absolutely no reason to believe that it is, given the lack of sources and inclusion in the Diana whatever), I would have little to no respect for it whatsoever. Styles and titles are for the living, not the dead.

What's to say it would stop there? Why not unbury her and parade her through the streets every year so that the rest of the family can throw themselves on their knees in sackcloth and ashes to weep and ask for forgiveness for taking anything away from her in life? If she was well-embalmed, why not pull a John XXIII and put her on display for the world to come and lament?
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  #494  
Old 12-24-2007, 01:42 PM
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Wasn't there a Spanish or Portuguese king who dug up the corpse of his dead wife and crowned her Queen?
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  #495  
Old 12-25-2007, 02:57 AM
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Wasn't there a Spanish or Portuguese king who dug up the corpse of his dead wife and crowned her Queen?
You must be talking about Ines de Castro, the wife (or alleged wife) of King Pedro I of Protugal. (thanks to Marengo for initial information about her)
Ines came to the Portuguese Court as maid to Constance of Castille, the wife of Pring Pedro. Pedro fall in love with Ines, and after his first wife died, he refused to marry anyone but Ines. Even after Ines was send to exle by King Alfonso IV, Pedro followed her and they continued to live together. After several failed attempts to separate them, King Alfonso ordered Ines's death.

Pedro never married again and after becoming King of Portugal in 1357, he stated that he had married Ines, who was thus a lawful Queen (his word was the only proof of the marriage though). Pedro ordered to exhume Ines's body and forced the court to swear allegiance to her as a Queen.
Ines was later buried at the Monastery of Alcobaca, where her coffin can still be seen, opposite Pedro's so that, according to the legend, at the Last Judgment Pedro and Inês can look at each other as they rise from their graves. Both marble coffins are exquisitely sculpted with scenes from their lives and a promise by Pedro that they would be together até ao fim do mundo (until the end of the world).
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  #496  
Old 12-27-2007, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by sinulord View Post
No, that is not the case. Sophie would only be officially addressed as Princess Sophie if she had been born a princess ie. a princess of the blood royal. Since she is not a princess by birth, she can only take on Prince Edward's title, and will keep it till either death or divorce.

If Queen Elizabeth II of the UK abdicated, she may also choose to be addressed as HM The Queen Mother of the UK, rather than revert to her title before accession.

If the case of divorce, she no longer has any right to the name Windsor.
Sophie automatically became "HRH The Princess Edward" as the wife of a son of the Sovereign on her wedding day. Since her husband was created The Earl of Wessex by The Queen, she takes her style as HRH The Countess of Wessex, but remains a princess by marriage.

The Queen could not be known as anything other than "HRH The Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh" upon abdication, unless the Act provided for a different style or title.

Marie-Christine would be entitled to the style of "Marie-Christine, Princess Michael of Kent" with a divorce, the same as Diana and Sarah and consistent with the style of former wives of peers.
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  #497  
Old 12-29-2007, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
It seems other countries have no problems with an abdcated King styles as King for example King Léopold III. of the Belgians and in Luxemburg both Grand Duke Henri and Grand Duchess Charlotte where styled as Grand Duke/Grand Duchess.
Though we can be quite sure that the UK does have a serious issue with titles after an abdication!
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  #498  
Old 12-31-2007, 05:19 AM
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Somehow we've got well off track into lists of European Queens and Russian Empresses.
Those posts have been removed to get the thread back to the topic of British titles.

thanks,
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  #499  
Old 01-03-2008, 07:19 PM
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I have a question about the surname Mountbatten-Windsor that I was hoping someone could answer for me...

Is the bolded part below from wiki.com about the surname Mountbatten-windsor correct???

Seemingly the only people who would officially hold the surname (Mountbatten-Windsor) under the Order-in-Council would be any male-line great-grandchildren of the Queen not in direct line to the throne, i.e. the children of any sons of the Duke of York and Earl of Wessex. Similarly, in the event that any male-line granddaughter of the Queen were to have a child whilst unwed. Also, when (and if) Charles becomes king, any male-line-great-grandchildren that he would have who were not in direct line to the throne would also use the surname Mountbatten-Windsor.

Here is the link Mountbatten-Windsor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks if you can answer my question...
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  #500  
Old 01-04-2008, 08:08 AM
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The surname applies to any descendants of The Queen and Prince Philip who do not hold the style of Royal Highness and rank of Prince/Princess of the UK, regardless of their place in the line of succession.
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