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  #4221  
Old 04-09-2019, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
The husband of a Princess of Wales could be given a Dukedom like Prince Philip received and then be made Prince Consort when his spouse becomes Queen. He cannot be made Prince of Wales for the same reason the husband of a queen regnant cannot be made king. This will remain the case as long as the centuries-old tradition of a woman taking her style/status from her husband, and not the other way around, is observed in the UK. And as long as there are different names for a male and female monarch.
You cannot use Prince Philip's situation as an example as, unlike Prince Albert when he married Queen Victoria, Prince Philip was forced to surrendered his nationality and his title to become plain old Lt Philip Mountbatten before he could marry princess Elizabeth.

The King bestowed the title of 'HRH Duke of Edinburgh' on Philip on his marriage. It was not until 1957 that Queen Ellizabeth, as a result of the awkwardness of his situation (the whole time he was courting Elizabeth he was known as HRH Prince Philip so people still called him Prince Philip) created him HRH The Prince Philip of the United Kingdom Great Briton and Northern just like his children. He was not made Prince Consort though.
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  #4222  
Old 04-09-2019, 07:19 AM
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Wouldn't any man who married an heiress to the British throne be fast-tracked to acquire British nationality before marriage, and in theory, couldn't a foreigner be granted a dukedom?

But it would be simpler and fairer to modify the centuries-old tradition of obliging married women to take their husbands' status and not the other way around, especially in a situation where the woman is expected to be the sovereign and head of the house. It would not be necessary to use the same title for male and female monarchs as is done in Japan for example, although that would admittedly be more logical than the Western system.
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  #4223  
Old 04-11-2019, 05:56 PM
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I wonder if William becomes Prince of Wales, does George get the Cambridge title?
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  #4224  
Old 04-11-2019, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Westfield Bakery View Post
I wonder if William becomes Prince of Wales, does George get the Cambridge title?
No. William will remain "Duke of Cambridge, Earl of Strathearn, and Baron Carrickfergus" until he becomes King, when those titles will merge with the crown and be eligible for re-granting. He will just have the heir's titles added to them, and as heir's titles are more important, William will be called by the most senior one he has. If they follow the precedent of the future George V, who was titled as "Duke of Cornwall and York" before being created "Prince of Wales" William may be known as "The Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge" (Duke of Rothsay" in Scotland) until he becomes "Prince of Wales."



George and his siblings' titles will change as well: from being "of Cambridge" they will progress to "of Cambridge and Cornwall" to "of Wales" and eventually just "The Prince George, The Princess Charlotte, and The Prince Louis" once William is himself King.
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  #4225  
Old 04-12-2019, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by LauraS3514 View Post
No. William will remain "Duke of Cambridge, Earl of Strathearn, and Baron Carrickfergus" until he becomes King, when those titles will merge with the crown and be eligible for re-granting. He will just have the heir's titles added to them, and as heir's titles are more important, William will be called by the most senior one he has. If they follow the precedent of the future George V, who was titled as "Duke of Cornwall and York" before being created "Prince of Wales" William may be known as "The Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge" (Duke of Rothsay" in Scotland) until he becomes "Prince of Wales."



George and his siblings' titles will change as well: from being "of Cambridge" they will progress to "of Cambridge and Cornwall" to "of Wales" and eventually just "The Prince George, The Princess Charlotte, and The Prince Louis" once William is himself King.
George will never be The Prince George. The moment his siblings become The Princess Charlotte, and The Prince Louis, he will be The Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay in Scotland
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  #4226  
Old 04-12-2019, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by alvinking View Post
George will never be The Prince George. The moment his siblings become The Princess Charlotte, and The Prince Louis, he will be The Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay in Scotland
Yes he will. A good example is looking at the entry in the Court Circular that Princess Larisa posted in the Prince's Trust thread yesterday. It states "The Prince Charles, Duke of Rothesay, President, The Prince's Foundation, this evening held a Dinner for Supporters."

Charles does not use Duke of Cornwall when in Scotland.
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  #4227  
Old 04-12-2019, 06:14 AM
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Prince Charles is still everywhere The Prince Charles - the Titles are added and not substituted.
From the Moment his mother took the throne till the moment he succedes he will be: The Prince Charles ... plus all his other Titles
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  #4228  
Old 04-12-2019, 10:33 AM
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Prince George's most likely sequence of short styles is:


HRH Prince George of Cambridge
HRH Prince George of Cornwall and Cambridge
HRH Prince George of Wales
HRH The Duke of Cornwall
HRH The Prince of Wales
HM The King


Once he becomes HRH The Duke of Cornwall, he will also be HRH The Prince George.
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  #4229  
Old 04-12-2019, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Prince George's most likely sequence of short styles is:


HRH Prince George of Cambridge
HRH Prince George of Cornwall and Cambridge
HRH Prince George of Wales
HRH The Duke of Cornwall
HRH The Prince of Wales
HM The King


Once he becomes HRH The Duke of Cornwall, he will also be HRH The Prince George.
Between the D of Cornwall and P of Wales will probably be a title of his own when he marries. Or would that always be a 'lesser' title than Cornwall ?
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  #4230  
Old 04-12-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by SLV View Post
Between the D of Cornwall and P of Wales will probably be a title of his own when he marries. Or would that always be a 'lesser' title than Cornwall ?



If George gets married before he becomes the Prince of Wales and is given another peerage, he will be, I believe, HRH The Duke of Cornwall and xxx, just as Prince William will probably be HRH The Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge before he becomes HRH The Prince of Wales.
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  #4231  
Old 04-12-2019, 10:56 AM
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Thanks. I thought as much
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  #4232  
Old 04-12-2019, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV View Post
Between the D of Cornwall and P of Wales will probably be a title of his own when he marries. Or would that always be a 'lesser' title than Cornwall ?
More likely he will gain a title while Prince George of Wales as I doubt that he would be allowed to marry between becoming the Duke of Cornwall and The Prince of Wales - a period that will be more likely weeks or months rather than years while the court is in mourning for the death of Grandpa Charles.

Should he gain any title of his own - such as William's Duke of Cambridge title - he would use Cornwall first from becoming Duke of Cornwall as it is the older title.

The precedent for that would be George V who from January 1901 until November 1901 was HRH The Duke of Cornwall and York. In Scotland he was simply The Duke of Rothesay of course with Earl of Inverness ignored.
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  #4233  
Old 04-12-2019, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by alvinking View Post
George will never be The Prince George. The moment his siblings become The Princess Charlotte, and The Prince Louis, he will be The Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay in Scotland
As the son of the Sovereign he will most definitely be "The Prince George" regardless of any other titles he may have - he just won't be called "The Prince George," except as was noted above, in Scotland. Charles's full title is "His Royal Highness The Prince Charles Philip Arthur George, Prince of Wales and Earl of Chester, Duke of Cornwall, Duke of Rothesay, Earl of Carrick, Baron of Renfrew, Lord of the Isles and Prince and Great Steward of Scotland. KG, KT."
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  #4234  
Old 04-12-2019, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post


Wouldn't any man who married an heiress to the British throne be fast-tracked to acquire British nationality before marriage, and in theory, couldn't a foreigner be granted a dukedom?
They didn't do so for Meghan, so I see little reason to treat another foreigner who is expected to becoming a working member of the firm differently than the latest addition to the family (while I still think was a mistake to not fast-track her nationality).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
If George gets married before he becomes the Prince of Wales and is given another peerage, he will be, I believe, HRH The Duke of Cornwall and xxx, just as Prince William will probably be HRH The Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge before he becomes HRH The Prince of Wales.
But there wouldn't be a reason to give him another peerage (dukedom) upon his marriage even if he would marry between becoming the duke of Cornwall and the prince of Wales (which could happen; for example, prince Friso of the Netherlands got married a month after his grandmother died) if he already has a dukedom. Charles wasn't offered a dukedom upon his marriage as he already had several dukedoms and a princedom (among other titles).
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  #4235  
Old 04-13-2019, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
More likely he will gain a title while Prince George of Wales as I doubt that he would be allowed to marry between becoming the Duke of Cornwall and The Prince of Wales - a period that will be more likely weeks or months rather than years while the court is in mourning for the death of Grandpa Charles.

Should he gain any title of his own - such as William's Duke of Cambridge title - he would use Cornwall first from becoming Duke of Cornwall as it is the older title.

The precedent for that would be George V who from January 1901 until November 1901 was HRH The Duke of Cornwall and York. In Scotland he was simply The Duke of Rothesay of course with Earl of Inverness ignored.
Come to think of it. If George already has Cornwall and Wales, I don't think he WILL get another title upon marriage.
Did prince Charles get any more when he married?
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  #4236  
Old 04-13-2019, 04:26 AM
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No. Charles has had Cornwall and Rothesay since 1952 and Wales (and Chester) since 1958 so he wasn't given any more when he married.

George would only get an extra set of titles if he were to marry in the reign of his grandfather (or, and extremely unlikely) the reign of his great-grandmother ... and yes I know how old The Queen is and how old George is so know it is very unlikely he would marry in the reign of Elizabeth II.

Of course it isn't necessary to wait for a Prince to marry for them to be given a title. George V gave all of his younger sons (other than John) their dukedoms a number of years before they married. Queen Victoria also gave Dukedoms to her grandsons before they married. She also created her younger sons Duke before they married - e.g. The Duke of Edinburgh was raised to the peerage in 1866 but didn't marry until 1874. It is only Queen Elizabeth II who has made her sons and grandsons wait until their wedding days for such honours.
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  #4237  
Old 04-13-2019, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
It is only Queen Elizabeth II who has made her sons and grandsons wait until their wedding days for such honours.
And herein lies the big rub. The Queen has reigned for so long and as the majority of the people on this planet have never known another monarch on the throne, the way Queen Elizabeth II has done things in her reign seems to be the "written in stone" traditions of how its always been.

Longevity does that to traditions I guess.
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  #4238  
Old 04-13-2019, 02:44 PM
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She's been around for almost 100 years. What she has done, during her lifetime is tradtion, but that may change in the future.
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  #4239  
Old 04-20-2019, 12:52 AM
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In 1996, the Queen issued new letters patent:

The QUEEN has been pleased by Letters Patent under the Great Seal of the Realm dated 21st August 1996, to declare that a former wife (other than a widow until she shall remarry) of a son of a Sovereign of these Realms, of a son of a son of a Sovereign and of the eldest living son of the eldest son of The Prince of Wales shall not be entitled to hold and enjoy the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness.

Does this mean that if Prince Michael of Kent, or the Duke of Gloucester, for example, were to divorce, would their wife remain an HRH?

Same if Prince Andrew had a son who was an HRH, would a divorced wife retain the HRH?

And imagine Prince Philip were to remarry (for whatever reason) and subsequently divorce, would the new Duchess of Edinburgh still be HRH after divorce?
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  #4240  
Old 04-20-2019, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by royal-blue View Post
In 1996, the Queen issued new letters patent:

The QUEEN has been pleased by Letters Patent under the Great Seal of the Realm dated 21st August 1996, to declare that a former wife (other than a widow until she shall remarry) of a son of a Sovereign of these Realms, of a son of a son of a Sovereign and of the eldest living son of the eldest son of The Prince of Wales shall not be entitled to hold and enjoy the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness.

Does this mean that if Prince Michael of Kent, or the Duke of Gloucester, for example, were to divorce, would their wife remain an HRH?

Same if Prince Andrew had a son who was an HRH, would a divorced wife retain the HRH?

And imagine Prince Philip were to remarry (for whatever reason) and subsequently divorce, would the new Duchess of Edinburgh still be HRH after divorce?
As I read it, the 1996 Letters Patent do not deal with the situations you are listing. They were specifically created to deal with the divorced Diana and Sarah.

In practice, if the Dukes of Gloucester or Kent were to divorce, my guess is that their former wives would officially loose their titles and be styled quite like Diana or Sarah, i.e. Brigitta, Duchess of Gloucester. These would not be official titles.
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