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  #4081  
Old 01-14-2019, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
Because if George had been a girl, Georgina would not have been HRH and Princess but been the heir apparent, yet her eldest younger brother Charlie would have been HRH and Prince per the Letters Patent of 1917-i.e. "the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales...shall have and at all times hold and enjoy the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness with their titular dignity of Prince or Princess..."

This was not a situation George V ever anticipated, therefore he did not address it. Cirumstances changed and the Queen addressed the situation.
But what I’m saying is, if HM decides to elevate Harry’s kids we’d probably would have heard about it by now. If Meghan is 6 months pregnant, why the wait.

Who knows what Charles’ reign will bring. But it’s my vibe Harry’s kids will never be HRH.
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  #4082  
Old 01-14-2019, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post


Since 2006, Spanish titles are passed on to the eldest child, whether a daughter or a son.
http://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-2006-18869

I think Somebody's point was not so much about gender, but rather about titles descending by primogeniture (which is/was the English, French and Spanish custom), or being transmitted from birth to all descendants in male line, which, I guess, was the German custom (?) and influenced in turn the Low Countries and the Scandinavian realms. Starting in the 19th century, however, there have been also titles of nobility in Belgium, Sweden or the Netherlands for example that are transmitted only by primogeniture.



In the case of Spain, male-preference primogeniture had always been the norm (unlike in England or France, an eldest daughter could inherit titles from her father if she had no brothers). The 2006 law changed the default to equal primogeniture as you mentioned, but it is also possible (and indeed quite common) for a grandee who holds multiple titles to distribute his/jer subsidiary titles among his/her younger children during his/her lifetime. That is a way to circumvent primogeniture in practice so that younger children are not left titleless as in England. The "redistribution" of titles during someone's lifetime must be approved by the King though.
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  #4083  
Old 01-14-2019, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
Because if George had been a girl, Georgina would not have been HRH and Princess but been the heir apparent, yet her eldest younger brother Charlie would have been HRH and Prince per the Letters Patent of 1917-i.e. "the eldest living son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales...shall have and at all times hold and enjoy the style, title or attribute of Royal Highness with their titular dignity of Prince or Princess..."

This was not a situation George V ever anticipated, therefore he did not address it. Cirumstances changed and the Queen addressed the situation.



The Queen went one step further though, didn't she ? Following your reasoning, she could have simply decreed that "the eldest living child of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales" would be a prince/princess with the HRH style, but, instead, she decided that all children of the eldest son of the PoW should hold that titular dignity, which wasn't necessary.



If the point is actually dealing with the consequences of the introduction of equal primogeniture in the succession to the Crown, then I guess the 1917 LPs will have to be changed after all as it will be awkward if Louis' children become HRHs when Charlotte's children, who will be higher in the line of succession, are not princes/princesses. On the other hand, giving out HRH to all grandchildren of the monarch (in both paternal and maternal line) would have the inconvenience of possibly increasing the number of HRHs over time , which is why Charles may well consider limiting HRH to the heir's children only as some posters here are suggesting.
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  #4084  
Old 01-14-2019, 12:29 PM
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I am finding this entire conversation extremely interesting although a tad confusing. I do believe, after going back and rereading things attributed to Prince Charles' future outlines for the downsizing of HRH titles and making the working royals a tighter clan, that he will definitely want only a very few during his reign as monarch to have "royal" titles. I also believe that these select few will have more responsibility under his direct ideas. JMO but I believe he has always had a very specific plan on how his country should be moved forward and his very clear view is on the youth and traditions of the country. I am also quite sure that his boys know and understand his feelings. The queen and her heir must have had many a conversation on this subject. Right now, none of our business, but we will know when the time comes. Again, just my opinion.
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  #4085  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:07 PM
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When Charles becomes King, will Princess Ann keep the Style Princess Royal?
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  #4086  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Shirley View Post
When Charles becomes King, will Princess Ann keep the Style Princess Royal?
Yes, it's hers for life.
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  #4087  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:11 PM
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Could Princess Charlotte become Princess Royal or is there only one at a time?
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  #4088  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Shirley View Post
Could Princess Charlotte become Princess Royal or is there only one at a time?

There’s only one at a time.

Charlotte can be created Princess Royal when her father is King and her great-aunt has passed.
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  #4089  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:26 PM
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One of Duchess’s Kate’s styles is “HRH Princess William” so does that apply to males that marry into the Royals? Should Prince Philip also be known as HRH King Elizabeth II?
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  #4090  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Shirley View Post
One of Duchess’s Kate’s styles is “HRH Princess William” so does that apply to males that marry into the Royals? Should Prince Philip also be known as HRH King Elizabeth II?


No, as in 1957 Philip was made a british prince in his own right.

Catherine is not a princess of the blood so takes her titles from her husband, the old fashioned way.
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  #4091  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
No, as in 1957 Philip was made a british prince in his own right.

Catherine is not a princess of the blood so takes her titles from her husband, the old fashioned way.


What does that mean “in his own right?”
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  #4092  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Shirley View Post
What does that mean “in his own right?”

As a result of one's own claims, qualifications, or efforts, rather than an association with someone else.

Philip is a British Prince regardless of his marriage.
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  #4093  
Old 01-15-2019, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
As a result of one's own claims, qualifications, or efforts, rather than an association with someone else.

Philip is a British Prince regardless of his marriage.


O I see now. Thanks.
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  #4094  
Old 01-15-2019, 06:20 PM
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Prince Philip was born a Prince of Greece and Denmark. He renounced those titles in early 1947 in order to take out British citizenship.

On the 19th November, the day before his wedding, George VI created him HRH The Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich. He did not include the word 'Prince' in that list and there are reports that one year, at Balmoral, someone filling in the 'game book' wrote Prince Philip and George VI crossed out the word 'Prince'. The 'game book' is the record of the number of birds or animals shot that day.

After The Queen ascended the throne there were discussions about Philip's titles such as should he be created HRH The Prince Consort or HRH The Prince of the Commonwealth. In the end, in 1957, The Queen issued Letters Patent to create Philip a Prince of the UK in his own right so he could again be correctly titled as Prince Philip. For just over 10 years of his life he wasn't a Prince even though he was a Royal Highness for all but about 11 months of his life.
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  #4095  
Old 01-15-2019, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Shirley View Post
When Charles becomes King, will Princess Ann keep the Style Princess Royal?

Yes. Princess Mary (Queen Elizabeth's aunt) kept the style for life even after her brothers became kings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Shirley View Post
One of Duchess’s Kate’s styles is “HRH Princess William” so does that apply to males that marry into the Royals? Should Prince Philip also be known as HRH King Elizabeth II?



In the UK, women take the titles and styles of their husbands, but the reverse is not true, i.e. husbands don't take the titles and styles of their wives.


For example, Princess Margaret became HRH The Princess Margaret, Countess of Snowdon when her husband was created Earl of Snowdon, but her husband was never styled HRH The Prince Margaret. In order to become an HRH, the husband of a British princess has to be given that style in his own right as was the case with Prince Philip.



Note that other countries might follow different rules. For example, in Spain, the husbands of women who hold titles of nobility in their own right also use their wives' titles, e.g. the husband of the Duchess of Alba would be called the Duke of Alba. That used to be true also for Spanish royal titles. In fact, even the husband of a reigning queen like Queen Isabella II for example was called HM The King. Nowadays, maybe due to northern European influence, that is no longer the case as, according to a royal decree issued by King Juan Carlos in 1987, the husband of future reigning queens will have the dignity only of "Prince" with the style HRH. Likewise, husbands of "infantas" (Spanish princesses who are not the heir to the throne) are no longer "infantes" or HRHs, but, if their wives are also duchesses, they can still use their wives' ducal titles by courtesy with the style of "Excellency" as customary for Spanish dukes. The husband of the Princess of Asturias (the female heir to the Spanish throne) is the only royal husband who can still use all of his wife's titles and styles (including "HRH The Prince of Asturias") as in the traditional Spanish custom.
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  #4096  
Old 01-21-2019, 05:14 AM
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I was wondering.
There was apparently put a lot of thought into choosing the title of Sussex for H&M. Mainly choosing it, I understand, because the last Duke of Sussex was anti-slavery.
So, what reasoning was used for the Cambridge-title? Do we know?
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  #4097  
Old 01-21-2019, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV View Post
I was wondering.
There was apparently put a lot of thought into choosing the title of Sussex for H&M. Mainly choosing it, I understand, because the last Duke of Sussex was anti-slavery.
So, what reasoning was used for the Cambridge-title? Do we know?
Actually, I've read in several places where the title Duke of Cambridge was actually slated for Prince Edward when he married but that was changed to the stipulations that hold true today with Edward eventually being created Duke of Edinburgh when its available for recreation.

I don't believe there was a specific meaning behind William being named Duke of Cambridge but more along the lines that it was a dukedom readily available for him. Back at the time of William's wedding, in the polls here, Duke of Sussex was a huge contender also. I don't believe there's a hidden meaning behind Harry being created The Duke of Sussex other than it, again, was readily available for recreation.
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  #4098  
Old 01-28-2019, 01:01 PM
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I seriously doubt if there was a lot of thought put into it.. It was just one of the vacant royal dukedoms and Harry was going to be given one when he got married.
the Last Duke of Sussex also made 2 morganatic marriages.....
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  #4099  
Old 01-28-2019, 01:42 PM
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What will happen to title of Duke of York after Prince Andrew's death? It's obvious neither Beatrice and Eugenie nor their Children can inherit this Dukehome
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  #4100  
Old 01-28-2019, 01:52 PM
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It will revert back to the crown and ready to be granted again when a monarch chooses to use it.
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