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  #3981  
Old 01-06-2019, 06:23 AM
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I sincerely hope that Harry and Meghan's children DO NOT have HRH Prince/Princess titles. I think that it will be far easier for them to grow up being able to do whatever they want in life while still having the benefit of royal connections.
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  #3982  
Old 01-06-2019, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Terri Terri View Post
I sincerely hope that Harry and Meghan's children DO NOT have HRH Prince/Princess titles. I think that it will be far easier for them to grow up being able to do whatever they want in life while still having the benefit of royal connections.
Right, a la Viscount Severn, Lady Louise, Zara and Peter Phillips and their offspring.

However, the tabloid press and the less than royally knowledgeable U.S. media will buzz about the Sussex children not having HRH Prince/Princess titles. The tabloid press is already cluelessly and nonsensically braying about lack of HRH titles somehow being a snub. So silly and pointless. As someone mentioned earlier in the Sussex baby thread (possibly it was you Terri Terri), the most important thing is that the baby be healthy and grow up happy and fulfilled.
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  #3983  
Old 01-06-2019, 06:49 AM
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Yes, we can expect the usual 'SBUB' stories if they do go the non-title route.
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  #3984  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:18 AM
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Personally I think it is better they don't have titles, having HRH means they will automatically have a heap of expectations placed upon them. I think Harry the Queen and Charles will all be aware of the way the media have treated the York girls and if we are honest with the Cambridge's having 3 children already they is likely to be little need for the Sussex children to undertake public duties in time. I honestly think its easier for this child not to have a title, my understanding is that when Charles becomes King the child would become Prince/Princess anyway (although if i were Harry and Meghan I would be pushing for that not to happen).
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  #3985  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:23 AM
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By consensus, most of us are suspecting it's not going to happen for reasons already discussed.
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  #3986  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:26 AM
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And in the next generation only Prince George's children will be HRH Prince/Princess?
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  #3987  
Old 01-06-2019, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Just one little significant factor here. By letters patent, Andrew's daughters were automatically princesses because they were born as granddaughters of a reigning monarch in the male line.. Anne's children were just as much grandchildren of a reigning monarch but were of a female line so they were not born prince/princesses.

I don't think it ever occurred to Andrew to have things happen any way but how they've always happened. It wasn't a question of preference at all.
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Until Edward's request was announced in 1999 no one questioned the right of the York princesses to be exactly that.

I remember the joy that was expressed when Beatrice was born as there was a 'little princess to go with Diana's two princes'. People were glad to have a baby princess.
Were there any questions in the media before her birth about Prince Andrew's children potentially not being HRH either by request or by changes to the rules of 1917?

Did anybody speculate, prior to the birth Princess Anne's children, that they might be granted the HRH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
The tabloid press is already cluelessly and nonsensically braying about lack of HRH titles somehow being a snub. So silly and pointless.
What are the reasons alleged by the tabloid(s) in question for the snubbing (from the tabloid's point of view) of the Phillips, Wessex, Armstrong-Jones, Gloucester, Kent, and Ogilvy children?

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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
my understanding is that when Charles becomes King the child would become Prince/Princess anyway
Under the rules of the 1917 Letters Patent, but the Letters Patent could be changed or repealed. Considering the introduction of gender equality in the inheritance of the crown in 2015, it is long overdue.
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  #3988  
Old 01-06-2019, 08:09 AM
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I would like to see Baby Sussex get HRH because the child will be a grandchild of a future monarch. And HRH or not the baby makes history as a child of African American heritage will be a legal successor to the British throne. There will be interest in Baby Sussex no matter his/her place in the line of succession .
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  #3989  
Old 01-06-2019, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
... What are the reasons alleged by the tabloid(s) in question for the snubbing (from the tabloid's point of view) of the Phillips, Wessex, Armstrong-Jones, Gloucester, Kent, and Ogilvy children?...
As usual, it was just a bit of dog-whistling and making things up by the tabloid press. See the article I linked in my post #3 if you are interested in reading. They obviously don't give any reasons. They just used the words 'royal snub' in the headline to get the clicks.
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  #3990  
Old 01-06-2019, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The Duke of Kent hasn't used his Scottish title - Earl of St Andrews since he had his son who uses it. Nor has the Duke of Gloucester used his Northern Irish title since he had a son to use it.

That would be the same for Harry. He simply wouldn't use the Scottish title - just as Andrew doesn't use Earl of Inverness anymore, even though he doesn't have a son to use it.

If the Queen doesn't issue any new Letters Patent, then Harry would be The Duke of Sussex in both England and Scotland.
This is factually wrong. When in Scotland, the Duke of York is addressed as HRH The Earl of Inverness, just like when the Prince of Wales is in Scotland, he is addressed as HRH The Duke of Rothesay, Prince William is addressed as HRH The Earl of Strathearn, and Prince Harry is addressed as HRH The Earl of Dumbarton. It may seem small and unimportant but it is important for the people of Scotland. Even their Coat of Arms change in Scotland although the variations may be subtle for the untrained eyes. Even today some in Scotland are not over the Queen Elizabeth II, she is Queen Elizabeth I in scotland since Queen Elizabeth I was never Queen of Scots.
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  #3991  
Old 01-06-2019, 08:57 AM
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They will do what is best for their children and the monarchy. Though as the children of Harry and Meghan, they will never have normal lives. Title or not. So the suggestion that not being HRH will be easier on them rings false to me. I am not expecting HRH but I won't be surprised either way. I do agree up-thread that if the plan is for them to be HRH when Charles becomes King then they should just do it at birth.
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  #3992  
Old 01-06-2019, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
I would like to see Baby Sussex get HRH because the child will be a grandchild of a future monarch. And HRH or not the baby makes history as a child of African American heritage will be a legal successor to the British throne. There will be interest in Baby Sussex no matter his/her place in the line of succession .
The baby having African American heritage should not in any way influence a decision on whether s/he will be a royal highness. Neither in a negative nor in a positive way. As long as Louise and James, who are grandchildren in maleline of the current monarch, aren't royal highnesses, Harry's children shouldn't be either imo.

In addition, while I understand the BRF is considered more important than other monarchies, the Liechtenstein princely family already has a biracial prince who is 7th in line to the throne (the same spot baby Sussex will have). The Danish have two princes from partly Asian descent who were born 3rd and 4th in line. And the BRF has children of Maori descent in their midst. So, whilst it's not common, it is certainly no exception that members of European royal families are ethnically diverse.
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  #3993  
Old 01-06-2019, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
I know this isn't the correct thread and I'm very sorry for this, but I can't use the Search button any more.

A couple of friends were discussing Meghan's pregnancy the other day and the fact that, if the Queen doesn't issue LPs, a son would be Earl Dumbarton. Now, that's fine as it is Harry's subsidiary title and so, following custom his son will receive it. However, Earl Dumbarton is also Harry's title when in Scotland.

Therefore, Scottish commentators describing a visit to Scotland by the Sussex family years into the future might well begin with 'The Earl of Dumbarton proceeded to walk towards the crowd with the Countess, followed by the Earl of Dumbarton.' A bit awkward?

The Duke of Cambridge is not called the Earl of Strathearn in Scotland, so I wouldn't expect the Duke of Sussex to be called the Earl of Dumbarton either.
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  #3994  
Old 01-06-2019, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The Duke of Cambridge is not called the Earl of Strathearn in Scotland, so I wouldn't expect the Duke of Sussex to be called the Earl of Dumbarton either.
Sorry but you are wrong. When in Scotland, The Duke of Cambridge is indeed addressed as The Earl of Strathearn, and the Duke of Sussex as The Earl of Dumbarton

This is what KP said about the subject

https://twitter.com/KensingtonRoyal/...66463998562304
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  #3995  
Old 01-06-2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
The baby having African American heritage should not in any way influence a decision on whether s/he will be a royal highness. Neither in a negative nor in a positive way. As long as Louise and James, who are grandchildren in maleline of the current monarch, aren't royal highnesses, Harry's children shouldn't be either imo.

In .
Ed's children did not have HRH either because he wanted it (according to some reports). or because he was given a lesser ttitle at his wedding, in order for him to get the D of Ed title later.
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  #3996  
Old 01-06-2019, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by alvinking View Post
This is factually wrong. When in Scotland, the Duke of York is addressed as HRH The Earl of Inverness, just like when the Prince of Wales is in Scotland, he is addressed as HRH The Duke of Rothesay, Prince William is addressed as HRH The Earl of Strathearn, and Prince Harry is addressed as HRH The Earl of Dumbarton. It may seem small and unimportant but it is important for the people of Scotland. Even their Coat of Arms change in Scotland although the variations may be subtle for the untrained eyes. Even today some in Scotland are not over the Queen Elizabeth II, she is Queen Elizabeth I in scotland since Queen Elizabeth I was never Queen of Scots.
Andrew visited Scotland on July 2 and 3 and was called 'The Duke of York' in the Court Circular. However, when he visited Inverness itself in September, his Inverness title was added to his ducal title, not to him being The prince Andrew (as is done with Charles). And even William was called 'The duke of Cambridge' on his visit to Stirling Castle in October 2016. However, in July of this year 'Prince William, earl of Strathearn', was used.

Charles indeed seems to be called 'The prince Charles, duke of Rothesay' consistently when in Scotland.
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  #3997  
Old 01-06-2019, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
I would like to see Baby Sussex get HRH because the child will be a grandchild of a future monarch. And HRH or not the baby makes history as a child of African American heritage will be a legal successor to the British throne. There will be interest in Baby Sussex no matter his/her place in the line of succession .
Baby Sussex is not " a legal successor to the British throne".
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  #3998  
Old 01-06-2019, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
Baby Sussex is not " a legal successor to the British throne".
if you mean he's not the next heir, of course not.. But any baby they have will be in the succession...…….
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  #3999  
Old 01-06-2019, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Ed's children did not have HRH either because he wanted it (according to some reports). or because he was given a lesser ttitle at his wedding, in order for him to get the D of Ed title later.
I am aware of that. Still, I would like the royals to be consistent in their use of titles. Elevating a greatgrandchild by a younger son to HRH when earlier lowering the style of a grandchild by a younger sonseems unjust.

I do wonder whether it would have been possible to still give Edward's children the style of royal highness and use 'Wessex' as the territorial designation for the time being. I don't see why that wouldn't work but I don't think there is a precedent for it.
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  #4000  
Old 01-06-2019, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
I am aware of that. Still, I would like the royals to be consistent in their use of titles. Elevating a greatgrandchild by a younger son to HRH when earlier lowering the style of a grandchild by a younger sonseems unjust.

I do wonder whether it would have been possible to still give Edward's children the style of royal highness and use 'Wessex' as the territorial designation for the time being. I don't see why that wouldn't work but I don't think there is a precedent for it.
It may be that when Ed becomes Duke of Edinburgh, his children will become HRH but I don't see why they should. Edward's children are unlikely to be needed for royal work, and they don't need an HRH. I presume that he either wished for them not to be titled as royal or else that at least he agreed with his mother on the issue...
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