Questions about British Styles and Titles 1: Ending 2022

[JR76]

Titles are often accompanied by places like Wales, Cornwall, Cambridge,Sussex etc. What happen if they are no longer places left?

That will never happen. There are millions of place names within the United Kingdom and many more are added each year.

 

[Denville]

Titles are often accompanied by places like Wales, Cornwall, Cambridge,Sussex etc. What happen if they are no longer places left?

SInce there are very few titles given out now, it is not likely to happen.

 

[Lunastro2020]

Can parliament remove HRH titles?

Can British royal titles be accompanied by places in UK like Wales, Cambridge etc. only? Can they replaced by places of other countries which is under Queen Elizabeth control?

 

[Denville]

Can parliament remove HRH titles?

no, they are part of the queen's prerogative.

 

[Lunastro2020]

Does they use titles in schools? Or It will be replaced by their title's place for example Charlotte Cambridge

Was Prince William title Duke Of Cambridge since his birth?

 

[Denville]

Was Prince William title Duke Of Cambridge since his birth?

No, he was given the title at his marriage... That's the general rule for princes who get a title, it is given when they get married.

 

[Lunastro2020]

No, he was given the title at his marriage... That's the general rule for princes who get a title, it is given when they get married.

So,What was Prince William title of birth?

 

[muriel]

So,What was Prince William title of birth?

HRH Prince William of Wales

 

[mary mary]

What will be Princess Beatrice Kids title?

They will be untitled, like her sister's son Master August Brooksbank.

I'd read that because Edo (Beatrice's husband) is an Italian Count that their children will inherit the title of Cont or Nobile Donna. But I don't claim to know anything about it myself and am not sure if they would actually use those titles in the UK.

 

[Osipi]

British titles can be inherited in the female line if the female is the sovereign or a peeress in her own right.

There are instances where a special remainder is issued to allow a female to inherit her father's title. This happened with Earl Mountbatten of Burma (Louis Mountbatten aka "Uncle Dickie".

The letters patent creating the peerage had the remainder that "...to his eldest daughter Patricia Edwina Victoria, Baroness Brabourne...and the heirs male of her body lawfully begotten; and in default of such issue to every other daughter lawfully begotten of the said Louis Francis Albert Victor Nicholas, Viscount Mountbatten of Burma, successively in order of seniority of age and priority of birth and to the heirs male of their bodies lawfully begotten..."

If I'm not mistaken though, this kind of remainder is a rarity.

 

[Denville]

There are instances where a special remainder is issued to allow a female to inherit her father's title. This happened with Earl Mountbatten of Burma (Louis Mountbatten aka "Uncle Dickie".

The letters patent creating the peerage had the remainder that "...to his eldest daughter Patricia Edwina Victoria, Baroness Brabourne...and the heirs male of her body lawfully begotten; and in default of such issue to every other daughter lawfully begotten of the said Louis Francis Albert Victor Nicholas, Viscount Mountbatten of Burma, successively in order of seniority of age and priority of birth and to the heirs male of their bodies lawfully begotten..."

If I'm not mistaken though, this kind of remainder is a rarity.

Its pretty rare for a title of nobility to go in the female line.. and as things stand...Princesses do not pass on their royal rank to their children....unless they are heirs to the throne...
Peerage titles only descend in the female line in rare cases where a peer is unlikely to have a male heir...
Therefore, Anne's children would inherit their father's rank, and he had no title.....

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I'd read that because Edo (Beatrice's husband) is an Italian Count that their children will inherit the title of Cont or Nobile Donna. But I don't claim to know anything about it myself and am not sure if they would actually use those titles in the UK.

Edo is not really an Italian Count as titles of nobility legally do not exist under the current Italian constitution. Defunct Italian titles are in use socially by some, but Edo, whose parents are both British, has never used a title. The palace therefore refers to him as Mr. Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi.

The wedding of Princess Beatrice and Mr. Mapelli Mozzi

Can British royal titles be accompanied by places in UK like Wales, Cambridge etc. only? Can they replaced by places of other countries which is under Queen Elizabeth control?

There is no law restricting the territorial designations of titles to places in the UK, but in this day and age, it is unlikely that the Queen and Government would grant a territorial designation outside of the UK.

Can parliament remove HRH titles?

no, they are part of the queen's prerogative.

From the legal point of view, Parliament could do so as Parliament is sovereign and the Queen is considered to be constitutionally obligated to act on the advice of Parliament. For political reasons, however, I cannot see it happening.

No, he was given the title at his marriage... That's the general rule for princes who get a title, it is given when they get married.

That has been the general rule in Elizabeth II's reign only. Previous monarchs of the UK granted royal dukedoms only to unmarried princes.

Does they use titles in schools? Or It will be replaced by their title's place for example Charlotte Cambridge

It has been reported in the British media that the children use George Cambridge or Charlotte Cambridge in school.

There are instances where a special remainder is issued to allow a female to inherit her father's title. This happened with Earl Mountbatten of Burma (Louis Mountbatten aka "Uncle Dickie".

The letters patent creating the peerage had the remainder that "...to his eldest daughter Patricia Edwina Victoria, Baroness Brabourne...and the heirs male of her body lawfully begotten; and in default of such issue to every other daughter lawfully begotten of the said Louis Francis Albert Victor Nicholas, Viscount Mountbatten of Burma, successively in order of seniority of age and priority of birth and to the heirs male of their bodies lawfully begotten..."

If I'm not mistaken though, this kind of remainder is a rarity.

Its pretty rare for a title of nobility to go in the female line..[...]
Peerage titles only descend in the female line in rare cases where a peer is unlikely to have a male heir...

Some of the oldest English baronies and Scottish peerages also have remainders permitting descent in the female line, in the absence of a son. It is true that female succession is a rarity, as these peerages comprise a slim minority of all peerages.

 

[mary mary]

Edo is not really an Italian Count as titles of nobility legally do not exist under the current Italian constitution. Defunct Italian titles are in use socially by some, but Edo, who is a second-generation Briton, has never used a title. The palace therefore refers to him as Mr. Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi.



The wedding of Princess Beatrice and Mr. Mapelli Mozzi

Thank you!

 

[Tatiana Maria]

You're welcome. I corrected my post to state that Edo's parents are both British; he is a second-generation Briton through his father, whose ancestry is Italian, but I believe his mother's family has more generations of British (commoner) ancestry.

 

[Mbruno]

You're welcome. I corrected my post to state that Edo's parents are both British; he is a second-generation Briton through his father, whose ancestry is Italian, but I believe his mother's family has more generations of British (commoner) ancestry.

Doesn’t Edo’s father use the title of count socially? Maybe not in the UK, but at least in the continent?

 

[JR76]

Doesn’t Edo’s father use the title of count socially? Maybe not in the UK, but at least in the continent?

He does. For instance it was used when announcing the engagement of his daughter Natalia to Tod Yeomans in The Telegraph. The announcement had been placed by his ex-wife Nikki Shale.

http://announcements.telegraph.co.uk/engagements/145764/mr-t.-yeomans-and-miss-n.-mapelli-mozzi

 

[Heavs]

He does. For instance it was used when announcing the engagement of his daughter Natalia to Tod Yeomans in The Telegraph. The announcement had been placed by his ex-wife Nikki Shale.

Mr T. Yeomans and Miss N. Mapelli Mozzi - Engagements Announcements - Telegraph Announcements

Yes. Which is why it was interesting that the communiques from BP just used Mr when they do acknowledge other defunct titles socially.

Perhaps they didn't want to get into the debate on whether or not their children will use titles. Or Edo just wished for them to refer to his father as Mr. M M.

I do remember either Alessandro or someone from his family sparking an article or two by claiming their children would have/should use their titles.

 

[Lunastro2020]

Does William have 2 titles? Because he is called "Prince William, Duke of Cambridge". So he have titles"Prince and "Duke". Can any one (brf)have more than a title?

 

[Denville]

Does William have 2 titles? Because he is called "Prince William, Duke of Cambridge". So he have titles"Prince and "Duke". Can any one (brf)have more than a title?

yes...they usually do have more than one title.

 

[JR76]

Yes. Which is why it was interesting that the communiques from BP just used Mr when they do acknowledge other defunct titles socially.



Perhaps they didn't want to get into the debate on whether or not their children will use titles. Or Edo just wished for them to refer to his father as Mr. M M.



I do remember either Alessandro or someone from his family sparking an article or two by claiming their children would have/should use their titles.

They recognise foreign royal and noble titles. Since Alex Mappelli-Mozzi is (at least to my knowledge) of dual British and Italian citizenship it would be incorrect to use titles that he officially isn't allowed to hold as a British citizen. That's how I interpret it.

 

[Lunastro2020]

What is the difference between Duke/Duchess and Count/Countess?

is count/countess and earl all same titles?

Who becomes Duke of Edinburgh after Prince Philip?

Does there is anyone with title Duchess Of Edinburgh?

 

[Heavs]

Does there is anyone with title Duchess Of Edinburgh?

Previously the Queen and now Camilla since Charles as Philip's oldest son has automatically inherited his titles.

Eventually when Charles becomes King he will recreate Duke of Edinburgh for Edward and Sophie will then be Duchess of Edinburgh.

 

[Osipi]

Who becomes Duke of Edinburgh after Prince Philip?

Right now, Charles has inherited his father's title of Duke of Edinburgh. When Charles becomes king and the title reverts to the Crown, it is the wishes of the Queen and Prince Philip that the title be recreated for Edward.

There's a whole thread on this at https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/the-future-of-the-duke-of-edinburgh-title-24343.html

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Yes. Which is why it was interesting that the communiques from BP just used Mr when they do acknowledge other defunct titles socially.

Perhaps they didn't want to get into the debate on whether or not their children will use titles. Or Edo just wished for them to refer to his father as Mr. M M.

I do remember either Alessandro or someone from his family sparking an article or two by claiming their children would have/should use their titles.

They recognise foreign royal and noble titles. Since Alex Mappelli-Mozzi is (at least to my knowledge) of dual British and Italian citizenship it would be incorrect to use titles that he officially isn't allowed to hold as a British citizen. That's how I interpret it.

But he officially holds no titles whether in Italy or in Britain. Neither country acknowledges the defunct Italian titles legally, but both allow social usage of unofficial titles, and Buckingham Palace uses legally defunct titles for other British individuals such as members of the former reigning families of Hanover or Greece.

I think there is substance to Heavs's theory on why Alessandro was referred to as Mr in Buckingham Palace communiques, especially in view of the negative and false descriptions of his son Edoardo as an "Italian tycoon" in media stories and on social media.

What is the difference between Duke/Duchess and Count/Countess?

is count/countess and earl all same titles?

They are different ranks of the British peerage (nobility). There are reliable websites with information about the British peerage, such as Debrett's: https://www.debretts.com/expertise/essential-guide-to-the-peerage/

 

[Denville]

Right now, Charles has inherited his father's title of Duke of Edinburgh. When Charles becomes king and the title reverts to the Crown, it is the wishes of the Queen and Prince Philip that the title be recreated for Edward.

There's a whole thread on this at https://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f23/the-future-of-the-duke-of-edinburgh-title-24343.html

so right now Camilla is Duchess of Edinburgh, I suppose

 

[Osipi]

so right now Camilla is Duchess of Edinburgh, I suppose

As Camilla is entitled to use the feminine form of any of her husband's titles, I imagine that she is. I don't see either Charles or Camilla using the Edinburgh title though.

 

[Heavs]

But he officially holds no titles whether in Italy or in Britain. Neither country acknowledges the defunct Italian titles legally, but both allow social usage of unofficial titles, and Buckingham Palace uses legally defunct titles for other British individuals such as members of the former reigning families of Hanover or Greece.

I think there is substance to Heavs's theory on why Alessandro was referred to as Mr in Buckingham Palace communiques, especially in view of the negative and false descriptions of his son Edoardo as an "Italian tycoon" in media stories and on social media.

It would be interesting to find out for sure. Ernst August apparently has British citizenship and they're referred to him using his Hanoverian titles.

Was Lady Nicholas Windsor a British citizen at the time of her engagement? She was born in London and went to Wycombe and Cambridge yet her parents were Don and Donna in the announcement. That might clear things up a bit.

 

[JR76]

But he officially holds no titles whether in Italy or in Britain. Neither country acknowledges the defunct Italian titles legally, but both allow social usage of unofficial titles, and Buckingham Palace uses legally defunct titles for other British individuals such as members of the former reigning families of Hanover or Greece.



I think there is substance to Heavs's theory on why Alessandro was referred to as Mr in Buckingham Palace communiques, especially in view of the negative and false descriptions of his son Edoardo as an "Italian tycoon" in media stories and on social media.

I never said that Alex Mappelli-Mozzi officially held any titles in Italy or in the UK. I said that as a British citizen he can't officially use a foreign title in the UK and that it therefore would be incorrect for the court to use his title. Regarding the Greek and Hannoverian titles that you mentioned they are examples of what I said - that foreign royal titles are recognised by the court.

 

[Somebody]

Does William have 2 titles? Because he is called "Prince William, Duke of Cambridge". So he have titles"Prince and "Duke". Can any one (brf)have more than a title?

What is the difference between Duke/Duchess and Count/Countess?

is count/countess and earl all same titles?

Who becomes Duke of Edinburgh after Prince Philip?

Does there is anyone with title Duchess Of Edinburgh?

Looks like you have lots of questions about titles and are at the start of a (very interesting) journey to figure out how titles (in the UK) work. You might want to slowly work your way through this thread of almost 300 pages that will most likely answer all the questions you might have.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I never said that Alex Mappelli-Mozzi officially held any titles in Italy or in the UK. I said that as a British citizen he can't officially use a foreign title in the UK and that it therefore would be incorrect for the court to use his title. Regarding the Greek and Hannoverian titles that you mentioned they are examples of what I said - that foreign royal titles are recognised by the court.

But court communiqués are not official documents and not bound by rules about legal recognition. My point was that since even defunct foreign royal titles (the Greek titles were abolished, as was the HRH title for the Hanoverians) are unofficially recognized by the court for British citizens, citizenship does not appear to make a difference in the eyes of the court.