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  #3421  
Old 05-08-2018, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I found that earlier...nothing about a remainder though? Since it's not stated then assume there isn't /wasn't one?

Wasn't sure that one was complete?


LaRae
Those particular LPs were not about creating Edward Duke of Windsor, but rather about granting him the right to continue using the style of HRH, while denying that style at the same time to his wife , which BTW confirms that the King can override common law when it comes to royal titles and styles.
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  #3422  
Old 05-08-2018, 11:50 AM
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That link is to the LPs allowing Edward to keep HRH Prince and deny them to Wallis.

It isn't the link to the creation of the title Duke of Windsor - which I don't think I have ever seen anywhere.
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  #3423  
Old 05-08-2018, 12:21 PM
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My apologies, Pranter. I didn’t look closely enough at it before sharing. I’m blaming the lack of a morning tea.
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  #3424  
Old 05-08-2018, 12:28 PM
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No worries Ish...I've only had one so far myself and may not be clear!


Thanks Bertie and Mbruno! So what are we to assume about any offspring David had (pretend he had a son)..no transfer?


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  #3425  
Old 05-08-2018, 12:52 PM
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The fact that George VI denied any children HRH specifically would suggest that he also would have limited the title, Duke of Windsor to Edward only.

I seem to remember reading that somewhere sometime - that it was for his use only - but I may be confusing the HRH with the Duke of Windsor title so don't hold me to that one.

It would be great to be able to see the LPs and see if there was a remainder or whether this was, effectively, only a life peerage.
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  #3426  
Old 05-08-2018, 01:01 PM
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I wonder why the LP's (for the creation of Windsor) for this aren't available to be seen....


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  #3427  
Old 05-08-2018, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I found that earlier...nothing about a remainder though? Since it's not stated then assume there isn't /wasn't one?

Wasn't sure that one was complete?


LaRae
We also discussed this in the Duke and Duchess of Windsor forum. According to documents on the Heraldica website, Geoffrey Ellis (Counsel to the Crown in Peerage and Honours claims), who had seen the LP, wrote:

"The Crown has created him Duke of Windsor, to him and the heirs male of his body...."

See my original post #1912 for the Heraldica link:

Duke and Duchess of Windsor (1894-1972) and (1895-1986)
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  #3428  
Old 05-08-2018, 01:36 PM
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Thanks Gawin!


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  #3429  
Old 05-08-2018, 01:54 PM
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That is a link to the correspondence and includes reference to the draft LPs but doesn't actually include the LPs themselves.

There is no reason to assume they are different but then again they may be.
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  #3430  
Old 05-08-2018, 01:54 PM
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You're welcome. We also discussed the fact that no subsidiary titles were given to the Duke of Windsor. He was created Duke of Windsor and nothing else.
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  #3431  
Old 05-08-2018, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
That is a link to the correspondence and includes reference to the draft LPs but doesn't actually include the LPs themselves.
That's true. My point was the link includes correspondence from Geoffrey Ellis, Counsel to the Crown in Peerage and Honours claims from 1922 to 1954.

Ellis made the statement "The Crown has created him Duke of Windsor, to him and the heirs male of his body."

Because he was a Counsel to the Crown I assume Ellis wouldn't have stated that unless he knew it for a fact.
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  #3432  
Old 05-09-2018, 01:21 AM
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I think there would have had to have been a remainder. I believe one of the concerns was getting him in the House of Lords, so as to make him ineligible to stand for election, and at the time, the House of Lords did not recognize recipients of non-hereditary peerages (as decided in the Wensleydale Peerage Case) unless they were judges appointed to be "Lords of Appeal in Ordinary" (a category created by law, to overrule the Wensleydale case, but only for those judges).
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  #3433  
Old 05-16-2018, 01:01 PM
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As monarch, Queen Elizabeth II has as a rule addressed titleless married women with their husband's first name as well as last name.

For example, in the update on the bridesmaids and page boys in 2011, all of the titleless mothers were Mrs. (Husband's first name) (Husband's last name).

https://www.royal.uk/update-maid-hon...-and-page-boys

Quote:
(Aged 3 daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Hugh van Cutsem)

(Aged 3 daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Harry Lopes)

(Aged 10 son of Mr. and Mrs. Jamie Lowther-Pinkerton)

(Aged 10 son of Mr. and Mrs. Charles Pettifer)
However, in the update on the bridesmaids and page boys today, all of the mothers are Mrs. (Her first name) (Husband's last name).

https://www.royal.uk/bridesmaids-and...-meghan-markle

Quote:
(Aged 3 – goddaughter of Prince Harry, daughter of Mrs. Alice van Cutsem and Major Nicholas van Cutsem)

(Aged 6 – goddaughter of Ms. Markle, daughter of Mrs. Benita Litt and Mr. Darren Litt)

(Aged 7 – goddaughter of Ms. Markle, daughter of Mrs. Benita Litt and Mr. Darren Litt)

(Aged 4 – daughter of Mrs. Jessica Mulroney and Mr. Benedict Mulroney)

(Aged 2 – goddaughter of Prince Harry, daughter of Mrs. Zoe Warren and Mr. Jake Warren)

(Aged 6 – godson of Prince Harry, son of Mrs. Amanda Dyer and Mr. Mark Dyer M.V.O.)

(Aged 7 – son of Mrs. Jessica Mulroney and Mr. Benedict Mulroney)

(Aged 7 – son of Mrs. Jessica Mulroney and Mr. Benedict Mulroney)
I wonder whether the announcement today will be the exception or a lasting change to Elizabeth II's rules regarding married women. Will she allow Princess Eugenie of York to be addressed as Princess Eugenie, Mrs. Brooksbank rather than Princess Eugenie, Mrs. Jack Brooksbank after the wedding in October?
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  #3434  
Old 05-19-2018, 04:25 AM
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If Harry and Meg have a son, will he be known as The Earl of Dumbarton?
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  #3435  
Old 05-19-2018, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Gem7 View Post
If Harry and Meg have a son, will he be known as The Earl or Dumbarton?
Very likely, yes. It would be Prince X, Earl of Dumbarton. That's unless the chose to do the George thing, and let him be known as Prince George of Cambridge.
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  #3436  
Old 05-19-2018, 04:29 AM
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not The Earl of.. but Earl of..
THE Earl is Harry.
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  #3437  
Old 05-19-2018, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Gem7 View Post
If Harry and Meg have a son, will he be known as The Earl or Dumbarton?
There are three scenarios:

1. The Queen declares that the children of The Duke and Duchess of Sussex will be HRH Prince/Princess. British Royal Highnesses do not use courtesy titles otherwise George would be known as Earl of Strathearn. Their eldest son would be HRH Prince FirstName of Sussex.

2. The Queen does nothing, so Harry and Meghan's children are born with the styles of a Duke's children, i.e. Lord and Lady. In that case, their eldest son would be Earl of Dumbarton with siblings Lord/Lady FirstName Mountbatten-Windsor until Charles becomes King and the 1917 Letters Patent come into effect for Harry's children, and they are elevated to HRH Prince/Princess. Their eldest son would then stop using Dumbarton and become HRH Prince FirstName of Sussex.

3. Harry and Meghan go the Wessex route and their son is never "HRH Prince FirstName of Sussex." He would then be Earl of Dumbarton, and other siblings Lord and Lady.
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  #3438  
Old 05-19-2018, 04:36 AM
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Thanks for the answers. I hated Dumbarton at first glance, but it's starting to grow on me already. It's such a ... different name. lol
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  #3439  
Old 05-19-2018, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Very likely, yes. It would be Prince X, Earl of Dumbarton. That's unless the chose to do the George thing, and let him be known as Prince George of Cambridge.

That's not quite right.



If born in the reign of the Queen, Harry and Meghan's eldest son will be Xxx, Earl of Dumbarton (under the current LPs). If new LPs are issued, or during the reign of Charles, then he will become Prince Xxx of Sussex. A courtesy title (in this case Earl of Dumbarton) is only used if you don't have your own title (in this case Prince Xxx of Sussex).
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  #3440  
Old 05-22-2018, 07:43 AM
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What would happen if a Queen Consort divorces the King, what would her title be?
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