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  #3201  
Old 10-27-2017, 05:12 AM
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There is quite a difference between asking to renounce a title that they have been stripped off a century ago compared to a title that is currently in use. However, I don't expect the BRF to do so, as I said previously, creating a new title is far easier and less risky.
The title wasn't 'stripped' forever but only for the holder at the time. Only those specified at the time - as they had taken up arms against the UK during WWI - were actually stripped of the titles. There were four named persons only. Their descendants have always had the right to have the titles reinstated.

As a result to ask anyone to give up their rights to a title is simply a slippery slope to asking them all to do so and so the precedence is important - regardless of who the holder is.

The UK does a lot of things via precedence and not legislation so asking the descendants of Albany and Cumberland to renounce forever would simply open up possibilities that no one in the BRF or the British aristocracy would contemplate.

While there are heirs the titles remain in existence and can't be re-granted to someone else.
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  #3202  
Old 10-27-2017, 01:38 PM
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Not sure why you are arguing as we are in agreement. The BRF will not ask it (for several reasons) and the descendents won't spontaneously give up their claims either, so yes, unless the claimant asks for it at some point in the future it will remain dormant.
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  #3203  
Old 10-27-2017, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by tatianacressida View Post
I did not know about Hubertus having a right to the Albany title and just not claiming it. It is pretty silly, yet I still think if I had a claim to a title, and to that one, that was Leopold's title, I would want it. Because why not?
See this wikipedia page for an overview of the current line of succession to the Albany title.
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  #3204  
Old 10-27-2017, 04:30 PM
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Not sure why you are arguing as we are in agreement. The BRF will not ask it (for several reasons) and the descendents won't spontaneously give up their claims either, so yes, unless the claimant asks for it at some point in the future it will remain dormant.
I am not arguing. I am discussing and explaining.
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  #3205  
Old 10-28-2017, 08:06 AM
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See this wikipedia page for an overview of the current line of succession to the Albany title.
Really Wikipedia?? How reliable is that source Someone?
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  #3206  
Old 10-28-2017, 09:51 AM
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Really Wikipedia?? How reliable is that source Someone?
Wikipedia can be reliable-you have to evaluate the sources. In this instance no sources are cited so accuracy can be questioned.
That said, most pop culture Wikipedia entries are highly accurate because of fandoms. Royalty has fandoms as well and folks that know their stuff.
I am a librarian with over 28 years of experience. In some circumstances we use Wikipedia as a source.
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  #3207  
Old 10-28-2017, 11:18 AM
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I can see nothing wrong with this Wiki-Article. It seems to be correct. As it follows the existing House of Sax Coburg Gotha..
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  #3208  
Old 10-28-2017, 11:24 AM
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Please share the accurate list if you think the wikipedia one is incorrect. If it is correct (as both Nice Nofret and I believe), the personal attack was unwarranted.
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  #3209  
Old 10-29-2017, 06:01 AM
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British laws don't allow to renounce a title. Only current title holder can disclaim his peerages "for life". After his death his heir inherits all titles.
This is correct. Only Parliament could terminate the dukedom.
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  #3210  
Old 10-29-2017, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Ilse View Post
Really Wikipedia?? How reliable is that source Someone?
Wikipedia is normally more reliable than commercial encylopedias in fact.
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  #3211  
Old 10-29-2017, 04:25 PM
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So true. Some time ago a colleague of mine showed me an article done by a researcher at a university in the US for their Ph.D on the reliability and accuracy of various encylopediae such as Britannica and the main US one (can't remember its name) and Wikipedia came out as equally reliable. Its reliability was questioned because anyone could edit it but inaccuracies were usually picked up by other experts pretty quickly. The good point about Wiki is that it usually includes very detailed Bibliographies which show where the information came from.
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  #3212  
Old 10-29-2017, 04:35 PM
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There is another factor that figures in with Wikipedia. Rather than referring to a set of encyclopedias that are in hard print that people do not tend to update and renew often, Wikipedia, as was pointed out, is ever changing as more and more information becomes available or errors are spotted.

Someone like me could edit a area about titles for a peer in the UK based on what I know and believe to be true but then, like often happens here, along comes Iluvbertie and sets the record straight and the information is more accurate.
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  #3213  
Old 11-27-2017, 08:17 AM
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I have personally experienced numerous errors and discrepancies in Wikipedia concerning (non-British) noble and royal titles and succession.

The commercial encyclopedias which I have come across simply never detailed subjects such as foreign noble titles and styles.

As far as those subjects are concerned, I encourage being cautious with any statement which is not backed by a trustworthy source, whether it be on Wikipedia, a forum, or in the media.

(I myself commonly write posts without providing sources in the interest of reducing length and sparing time, however, upon request, I would be pleased to offer a link or an explanation of how I learned a certain detail.)
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  #3214  
Old 11-27-2017, 08:44 AM
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Due to the business I used to own I have great experience of using different sources. I must say that Wikipedia is a fantastic resource, it is a very good starting point for finding information but it is so important to check various sources (and also have a bit of common sense when reading anything).
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  #3215  
Old 12-19-2017, 07:10 PM
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So how does this work for Meghan. Sorry if answered already. She won't be a legal citizen for a few years, likely, so in terms of her title can she legally use or am I understanding this wrong? Americans can't hold titles right?
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  #3216  
Old 12-19-2017, 07:21 PM
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Possible Dukedom for Harry and Meghan

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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
So how does this work for Meghan. Sorry if answered already. She won't be a legal citizen for a few years, likely, so in terms of her title can she legally use or am I understanding this wrong? Americans can't hold titles right?

This is a tricky one. Based on my understanding, as an American citizen Meghan would not generally have her titles legally recognised by the authorities. But in a social and diplomatic context, she would never be referred to as Mrs Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor. That would cause offence to the British. So even though it might not appear on her American passport, in the USA she’d be called HRH The Duchess of XYZ just as Kate or Camilla are known by their royal titles and styles.

From a UK point of view, as the legal wife of a Prince/Royal Duke, she’s entitled to be known as HRH etc from the moment she’s married. A case in point (though not the best example I grant you) would be the late Duchess of Windsor. As far as I know, she never gave up her American citizenship and didn’t adopt French or British citizenship either before or after her marriage. But in the USA, she was always referred to as Her Grace the Duchess of Windsor in a formal setting. Not having seen any of her legal paperwork from the US after her marriage, I couldn’t say 100% that she was never referred to by the US government as Mrs Wallis Windsor but to the best of my knowledge, I doubt she ever was.

Now I think of it, a far better and less complicated example would be Princess Grace. After her marriage, she was called HSH Princess Grace in a formal setting in the states but I’m not sure if that extend to legal documents too. Having said that, I’m not sure when Princess Grace acquired Monegasque citizenship. Sorry I can’t be more definite!
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  #3217  
Old 12-19-2017, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
So how does this work for Meghan. Sorry if answered already. She won't be a legal citizen for a few years, likely, so in terms of her title can she legally use or am I understanding this wrong? Americans can't hold titles right?
I believe this is a common misunderstanding of the American constitution.

The US constitution bans the US government from granting titles of nobility to anyone, on the federal and state levels. It also prohibits US citizens from accepting foreign titles while holding office. It does not prohibit all US citizens from accepting foreign titles though, so provided that Meghan isn't holding office in the US (which she isn't), she's fine.

A perfect example is Wallis Simpson - despite being an American, there was no issue with her becoming the Duchess of Windsor (at least not to the Americans). A more recent, but less Royal example is Christopher Guest and Jamie Lee Curtis. Guest was born in New York to a British father and American mother, and so is an American citizenship. This didn't prevent him from inheriting his father's title in 1996, becoming the 5th Baron Haden-Guest. His wife, Jamie Lee Curtis, is also an American born citizen, but is still styled as Lady Haden-Guest because of her husband's titles.
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  #3218  
Old 12-19-2017, 07:26 PM
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Ish to the rescue! Would Jamie Lee Curtis be addressed as Lady Haden-Guest on her tax returns? I think that’s where the confusion is here. Will Meghan be entitled to be addressed by her royal title and style in a legal setting in the US?
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  #3219  
Old 12-19-2017, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Gaudete View Post
Ish to the rescue! Would Jamie Lee Curtis be addressed as Lady Haden-Guest on her tax returns? I think that’s where the confusion is here. Will Meghan be entitled to be addressed by her royal title and style in a legal setting in the US?
No. Same situation was William didn’t use Duke of Cambridge in the French lawsuit. The government doesn’t recognize it as legal name. If in the future, her and Harry comes to US for a visit, she’d still be addressed as Duchess of X as a curtesy, but not as her legal name. It depends on if she legally changes her married name. She could still be Rache Meghan Markle as a married woman. Or she could take the name of Rachel Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor. Although I thought the Queen’s LP only covered those that weren’t holders of the Prince title, but I think William used Mountbatten-Windsor rather than just Windsor in the France case? But either way, it’s trhe same point that she’d have to use her legal name instead.
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  #3220  
Old 12-19-2017, 07:37 PM
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I imagine Meghan’s legal affairs in the US would only be restricted to private IRS correspondence anyway after her marriage and permanent relocation. In public she’ll always be called by her proper title so I wouldn’t have thought it’ll ever be an issue but thanks for the clarification on this one. It had been at the back of my mind too!
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