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  #3161  
Old 09-17-2017, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraS3514 View Post
Well, with Kent, Gloucester, and, after Edward's creation, Edinburgh, slated to leave the RF for the foreseeable future, having York "reserved" for the Heir's Heir would keep this very historic title in the family, by the fact that it does merge. Giving it to younger sons (or daughters) would see it leaving the family. Unless, of course, it is a "life" peerage, such as those in Sweden - but there has never been a "life" dukedom created in the UK.
In fact there were at least 6 dukedoms created "for life": Ireland (1386), Norfolk (1397), Montrose (1489), Hamilton (1660), Munster (1716), Kendal (1719)
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  #3162  
Old 09-17-2017, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
In fact there were at least 6 dukedoms created "for life": Ireland (1386), Norfolk (1397), Montrose (1489), Hamilton (1660), Munster (1716), Kendal (1719)
There's also been a few dukedoms created for women with no rights of passing them on making them life peerages by default
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  #3163  
Old 09-17-2017, 07:38 PM
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If the Cambridge family have another boy, won't he become Duke of York eventually, just as George will become Prince of Wales? Probably he would be created York on his marriage.
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  #3164  
Old 09-17-2017, 07:44 PM
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Questions about British Styles and Titles

Andrew has to be dead for the title to revert back to the Crown so it can be used again. We don't know what would happen first C3 getting married or Andrew dying. If William is King when C3 marries assuming he is a boy, he may want to give C3 the Cambridge Dukedom instead
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  #3165  
Old 09-17-2017, 07:55 PM
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Wonder what title Prince Harry will get on marriage?
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  #3166  
Old 09-17-2017, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Princess Squirrel View Post
Wonder what title Prince Harry will get on marriage?
There is a specific topic about this question.

Enjoy reading!
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  #3167  
Old 09-18-2017, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
In fact there were at least 6 dukedoms created "for life": Ireland (1386), Norfolk (1397), Montrose (1489), Hamilton (1660), Munster (1716), Kendal (1719)
I stand corrected.
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  #3168  
Old 09-18-2017, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
There's also been a few dukedoms created for women with no rights of passing them on making them life peerages by default
I did forget about all those Royal Mistresses
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  #3169  
Old 09-18-2017, 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by LauraS3514 View Post
I did forget about all those Royal Mistresses
Most of these dukedoms were created for other reasons.
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  #3170  
Old 09-18-2017, 03:26 AM
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A good example of a daughter inheriting a peerage from her father would be Patricia Knatchbull, 2nd Countess Mountbatten of Burma, CBE, MSC, CD. With a special remainder, she was able to inherit her father's peerage and sat in the House of Lords until 1999 when the House of Lords Act 1999 removed most hereditary peers from the House.

The hereditary title passed to her son, Norton Knatchbull, on Patricia's recent death in June this year.
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  #3171  
Old 09-18-2017, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
Most of these dukedoms were created for other reasons.
why were these Dukedoms "for life"? and not intended to be passed on to an heir?
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  #3172  
Old 09-18-2017, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
The Wessex children were eligible to be HRH Prince/Princess. Anne's children were not ever going to be HRH Prince/Princess. So instead of being a Prince, James becomes a Duke in time and Princess Louise is Lady Louise instead. Lady is a pretty common courtesy title. Way more Ladies in the UK than Princess, Dukes aren't that common but there is no great estate tied to the title.
No but I think the queen did want Anne's husband to have a title of nobility so that her grandchildren would not be plain Mr and Miss Phillips. however Mark and Anne preferred not to have a title. and their children were never going to be considered royal so their parents preferred them to be just "ordinary people" with no special rank...
. but she could have made Mark Earl of Gatcombe and Peter would have been say Viscount Phillips and Z Lady Zara Phillips.
with the Wessexes it is possible that they could be given royal titles but they are so far away from the throne that it seems as if the queen and the Wessexes would prefer tehm just to have a title of Nobility...in due course
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  #3173  
Old 09-18-2017, 03:25 PM
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with the Wessexes it is possible that they could be given royal titles but they are so far away from the throne that it seems as if the queen and the Wessexes would prefer tehm just to have a title of Nobility...in due course
The Wessex children already are HRH Prince/Princess of the UK, that is automatically their title after their birth by law from 1917, but they just choose to be styled/addressed in a different way.
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  #3174  
Old 09-18-2017, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
No but I think the queen did want Anne's husband to have a title of nobility so that her grandchildren would not be plain Mr and Miss Phillips. however Mark and Anne preferred not to have a title. and their children were never going to be considered royal so their parents preferred them to be just "ordinary people" with no special rank...
. but she could have made Mark Earl of Gatcombe and Peter would have been say Viscount Phillips and Z Lady Zara Phillips.
with the Wessexes it is possible that they could be given royal titles but they are so far away from the throne that it seems as if the queen and the Wessexes would prefer tehm just to have a title of Nobility...in due course
I read in one of Anne's bios that Mark flat refused to even consider it.


LaRae
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  #3175  
Old 09-18-2017, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc23 View Post
The Wessex children already are HRH Prince/Princess of the UK, that is automatically their title after their birth by law from 1917, but they just choose to be styled/addressed in a different way.
Not according to the letter I received from BP when I wrote and asked.

They told me that all that was needed to deprive them of the style of HRH was that The Queen's Will was made known and that happened so they aren't HRH Prince/Princess.

I wrote and asked simply because this kept coming up on here and the letter was very clear: 'The Queen's Will was made known'.

I suspect the reason they didn't change the LPs at this stage is that it would have meant stripping the Queen's cousins of a style they have had since they were born in the 1930s and 1940s but I also suspect that it will come - probably in William's reign to have only the children of the heir apparent styled as HRH.
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  #3176  
Old 09-30-2017, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Meghan and Kate most likely will continue to use The Duchess of X and The Duchess of Cornwall and Cambridge. Neither woman would ever use her first name in her style unless they divorce. Examples of that is Diana, Princess of Wales and Sarah, Duchess of York. No "the" in the styles as it denotes that they were *a* Duchess of so and so.
Just a quick comment: I do not expect Catherine to use 'The Duchess of Cornwall and Cambridge' once William is The Prince of Wales. I sincerely hope that she will opt to be known as 'The Princess of Wales'.

Furthermore, there is another moment in which her first name will be used officially (other than divorce): when William becomes King she will be known as HM Queen Catherine (if I am not mistaken).
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  #3177  
Old 09-30-2017, 07:25 PM
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You are correct. The only reason I didn't put in The Princess of Wales as an example is that its not a given that William will be created The Prince of Wales. That will be up to Charles. I can't think of any reason why he wouldn't do so but as I said, its not a given.

Actuall when William becomes King, Kate will be known as HM, The Queen. I don't believe she will use her first name at all in her styling. I could be wrong on this though.
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  #3178  
Old 09-30-2017, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
You are correct. The only reason I didn't put in The Princess of Wales as an example is that its not a given that William will be created The Prince of Wales. That will be up to Charles. I can't think of any reason why he wouldn't do so but as I said, its not a given.

Actuall when William becomes King, Kate will be known as HM, The Queen. I don't believe she will use her first name at all in her styling. I could be wrong on this though.
Actually being Queen is the only time her first name will be used. HM Queen Catherine.

Same rule applies as it did to Queen Elizabeth (wife of King George VI), Queen Mary and Queen Alexandra ... and so on.
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  #3179  
Old 09-30-2017, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Actually being Queen is the only time her first name will be used. HM Queen Catherine.



Same rule applies as it did to Queen Elizabeth (wife of King George VI), Queen Mary and Queen Alexandra ... and so on.


But were they known as such while their husbands were alive? Or was it only after (once they were Dowagers)?
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  #3180  
Old 09-30-2017, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
You are correct. The only reason I didn't put in The Princess of Wales as an example is that its not a given that William will be created The Prince of Wales. That will be up to Charles. I can't think of any reason why he wouldn't do so but as I said, its not a given.

Actuall when William becomes King, Kate will be known as HM, The Queen. I don't believe she will use her first name at all in her styling. I could be wrong on this though.
In your post you specifically mentioned that William would be The Prince of Wales if Charles decides to do so, so that's why I was surprised that you didn't mention something along the same lines for Catherine

See:
Quote:
Another thing is that if Charles is King, Harry would be The Prince Henry, Duke of X. William would be The Prince William, Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge and (if Charles decides to created his son) The Prince of Wales.
In the CC I indeed expect Catherine to be known as 'HM The Queen' (next to HM The King for William. However, the current Queen is (also) known as 'Queen Elizabeth II' (see for example: Her Majesty The Queen - Accession and Coronation - although normally she is referred to as 'The Queen' or 'Her Majesty') and there are debates about the regal name that Charles will pick. So, apparently the first names are relevant and official - or at least the Sovereign's name; even though normally 'The King' and 'The Queen' along with 'His Majesty' and 'Her Majesty' will be used.

We at least know for sure that she won't be known as 'Queen William (V)'
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