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  #2881  
Old 05-04-2016, 10:12 PM
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Questions about British Styles and Titles

The Duke of Kent married Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark. She was styled as HRH The Duchess of Kent. She asked the Queen for permission to use HRH Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent only after her son Edward married and there was a new HRH The Duchess of Kent.

So Princess Madeline of Sweden would still be styled as HRH The Duchess of Cambridge if married to William.


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  #2882  
Old 05-04-2016, 10:27 PM
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Not necessarily. Madeleine would more likely have been HRH Princess Madeleine of Sweden, Duchess of Cambridge. Along the lines of Princes Astrid of Belgium, or Princess Caroline of Monaco who both have titles from birth as well as their husbands.

In the UK she would likely be simply referred to as HRH Duchess of Cambridge.
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  #2883  
Old 05-04-2016, 10:31 PM
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The Queen also made her husband Philip a Prince of the U.K. Something her father didn't do when they got married.


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  #2884  
Old 05-04-2016, 10:39 PM
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It was a different time back then. For a man to marry into a royal family and gain his wife's titles was unheard of. Anne's husbands were never made Princes of the UK. Mark was said to have been offered a title, but like Philip, it was not a Prince title, but likely would have been an Earl like Margaret's. Beatrice and Eugenie's husbands it would be nice if the girls were given a title when they wed (like their male relatives are) but I have a feeling we will have to wait for Charlotte's marriage years from now to see that.

Denmark and the Netherlands were ahead of the game, Claus and Henrik were both made HRH Prince when they married. When Daniel got it in Sweden there was real debate to what title he would be given.
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  #2885  
Old 05-04-2016, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
She is still Princess William even with the Duchess of Cambridge title because William is still Prince William at the same time he is Duke of Cambridge. Camilla is Princess Charles, Sophie is Princess Edward etc. It just not their primary title. The Queen is the Duchess of Edinburgh too but she isn't being addressed as that.


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That's right! I think kids, the media and others are used to the princess titles associated with a girl marrying a Prince.
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  #2886  
Old 05-04-2016, 10:47 PM
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Questions about British Styles and Titles

Anne and Margaret weren't the heir to the throne like Elizabeth was. George VI made Philip a HRH , a Duke with 2 lower titles plus a Knight of Garter when he married. He just didn't make him a Prince of the U.K. Charlotte's husband isn't going be a made a Prince unless something has happened to George and she is William's direct heir.

Just think if Tony and Mark were made Princes of the U.K. in their own right like Philip. They would still be after their divorces.


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  #2887  
Old 05-05-2016, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
It was a different time back then. For a man to marry into a royal family and gain his wife's titles was unheard of. Anne's husbands were never made Princes of the UK. Mark was said to have been offered a title, but like Philip, it was not a Prince title, but likely would have been an Earl like Margaret's. Beatrice and Eugenie's husbands it would be nice if the girls were given a title when they wed (like their male relatives are) but I have a feeling we will have to wait for Charlotte's marriage years from now to see that.



Denmark and the Netherlands were ahead of the game, Claus and Henrik were both made HRH Prince when they married. When Daniel got it in Sweden there was real debate to what title he would be given.

Beatrice and Eugenie aren't likely to get titles when they marry (nor their husbands) because they're not of a comparable status to their cousin.

William's father will one day be King, so he got a title when he married - Harry will likely also get a title for the same reason (William will one day be King, which is why his children have royal titles). It's comparable to how the sons of the then Albert Edward, Prince of Wales (later Edward VII) were made royal dukes, as their father was the future King.

Beatrice and Eugenie's father is not likely to become King, so neither they nor their husbands are likely to be given titles - much like how Prince Michael of Kent wasn't created a Duke on his marriage.
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  #2888  
Old 05-05-2016, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
Anne and Margaret weren't the heir to the throne like Elizabeth was. George VI made Philip a HRH , a Duke with 2 lower titles plus a Knight of Garter when he married. He just didn't make him a Prince of the U.K. Charlotte's husband isn't going be a made a Prince unless something has happened to George and she is William's direct heir.

Just think if Tony and Mark were made Princes of the U.K. in their own right like Philip. They would still be after their divorces.


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Not necessarily. It could be handled the same way as Alexandra in Denmark, she lost the title upon remarriage. Both Mark and Tony remarried.

The reality is the UK is modernizing. With females gaining equal rights to the throne, its not hard to consider they will be treated equally. As Charles wants to slim down the monarchy and focus on his line, Charlotte and her future husband will called upon to support George down the line. It is not a stretch to think we will see something similar to Sweden, Charlotte being granted a Duchy and her husband taking her titles upon marriage.

Again we can't look and say...it wasn't done in the past so it wont be done now. Things are modernizing and changing.
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  #2889  
Old 05-05-2016, 08:31 AM
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Not necessarily. It could be handled the same way as Alexandra in Denmark, she lost the title upon remarriage. Both Mark and Tony remarried.
Alexandra's not a good comparison. She may have been Princess Alexandra, but the title was still derived from her marriage. She wasn't created a Princess in her own right.

Alexandra became Princess Alexandra by right of marriage and Countess of Fredericksborg in her own right. Thus, when she remarried she lost the title she had due to her first marriage (Princess), but retained the one she had in her own right (Countess).

I'm not certain about Denmark, but I know in Britain the monarch has the ability to bestow titles (both Noble and Royal) on individuals, and can issue LPs that affect Royal titles (granting them, like the Queen did with Prince Philip, or limiting their use, like George V did in 1917), but in order to take away a title bestowed on a specific person, Parliament is required. So, if they had wanted to make Anthony not an Earl because of his marriage Parliament would have had to do it - the Queen couldn't. Same if they had made him (or Mark) a Prince in their own right.



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The reality is the UK is modernizing. With females gaining equal rights to the throne, its not hard to consider they will be treated equally. As Charles wants to slim down the monarchy and focus on his line, Charlotte and her future husband will called upon to support George down the line. It is not a stretch to think we will see something similar to Sweden, Charlotte being granted a Duchy and her husband taking her titles upon marriage.

I could see Charlotte being granted her own hereditary Duchy on her marriage (especially if the Princess Royal title is unavailable). Her husband taking her titles upon marriage would require a reworking of the title system in Britain though.
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  #2890  
Old 05-05-2016, 08:48 AM
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The Duke of Kent married Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark. She was styled as HRH The Duchess of Kent. She asked the Queen for permission to use HRH Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent only after her son Edward married and there was a new HRH The Duchess of Kent.

So Princess Madeline of Sweden would still be styled as HRH The Duchess of Cambridge if married to William.


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Quite right. In Britain even Philip's mother, Princess Alice of Battenberg was styled Princess Andrew of Greece and Denmark

Madeline would require the Queen's permission to use her own name
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  #2891  
Old 05-05-2016, 08:54 AM
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By the time George and Charlotte get married, their father will be King. Their spouses will receive titles.
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  #2892  
Old 05-05-2016, 09:01 AM
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George's will automatically. Charlotte's doesn't have to accept one if he doesn't want it.


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  #2893  
Old 05-05-2016, 11:31 AM
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George's will automatically. Charlotte's doesn't have to accept one if he doesn't want it.


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True, but I'm just saying that a title would likely be offered.
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  #2894  
Old 05-05-2016, 11:44 AM
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At court the old rules still apply. When Miss Jane Jones marries Mr John Smith her style is then Mrs John Smith, not Mrs Jane Smith. Kate becomes Princess William, not Princess Catherine

But as we see, the press uses all sorts of names for royals. At an event yesterday, Kate asked the children what is her name and they shouted out 'Princess Kate' so what can you do
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  #2895  
Old 05-11-2016, 09:28 PM
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An Empress is the consort of an Emperor. However, if the Princess succeeded to the throne and reigned in her own right, would she be the Empress Regnant? Queen Victoria was a Queen Regnant. She became Empress of India.
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  #2896  
Old 05-11-2016, 10:14 PM
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I believe so. Except for Victoria, though, there have been few Empress Regnants in modern history. In ancient times the Chinese had one reigning empress and I think the Japanese had a couple.
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  #2897  
Old 05-11-2016, 10:15 PM
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An Empress is the consort of an Emperor. However, if the Princess succeeded to the throne and reigned in her own right, would she be the Empress Regnant? Queen Victoria was a Queen Regnant. She became Empress of India.
Empress is a word similar to Queen, though different because Queen is a different word from King, whereas Empress is the feminised form of Emperor. As with Queen, you can have Empress-Regnant, Empress-Consort, and Empress-Dowager. However, although, during the period of the British Empire, the Queen-Empresses who were only Empress-Consorts added the initial "R" after their signature, only Victoria, who was the only Empress-Regnant, and thus the one who had the Imperator status, added the initials "RI" for Regina Imperatrix, which is an interesting exception to the coverture rules, and now I need to find out why.

Actually it seems Alexandra may not have used the "R", either, which is interesting and something else for me to research.
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  #2898  
Old 05-13-2016, 09:28 PM
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Do viscounts' sons use secondary titles as courtesy titles if their fathers have such titles available?
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  #2899  
Old 05-13-2016, 10:17 PM
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They're always Honourables as far as I know, as in the Hon. Robert .....
Unless they've been knighted, of course.
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  #2900  
Old 05-23-2016, 07:40 AM
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The issue is one of law (whether, in law, Wallis Simpson was 'Her Royal Highness'); it has nothing to do with opinions as to 'fitness'. In fact, Edward VII was extremely popular with 'the masses', who probably shared his opinions about the pomposity and rigidity of protocol surrounding the Royal Family (mainly put there by jobsworths). In any event, it is not a good idea to bring 'fitness' into the argument since many other members of the Royal Family are of questionable fitness themselves.
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