Questions about British Styles and Titles 1: Ending 2022

[Winnie]

I am finding this entire conversation extremely interesting although a tad confusing. I do believe, after going back and rereading things attributed to Prince Charles' future outlines for the downsizing of HRH titles and making the working royals a tighter clan, that he will definitely want only a very few during his reign as monarch to have "royal" titles. I also believe that these select few will have more responsibility under his direct ideas. JMO but I believe he has always had a very specific plan on how his country should be moved forward and his very clear view is on the youth and traditions of the country. I am also quite sure that his boys know and understand his feelings. The queen and her heir must have had many a conversation on this subject. Right now, none of our business, but we will know when the time comes. Again, just my opinion.

 

[Queen Shirley]

When Charles becomes King, will Princess Ann keep the Style Princess Royal?

 

[JR76]

When Charles becomes King, will Princess Ann keep the Style Princess Royal?

Yes, it's hers for life.

 

[Queen Shirley]

Could Princess Charlotte become Princess Royal or is there only one at a time?

 

[Ish]

Could Princess Charlotte become Princess Royal or is there only one at a time?

There’s only one at a time.

Charlotte can be created Princess Royal when her father is King and her great-aunt has passed.

 

[Queen Shirley]

One of Duchess’s Kate’s styles is “HRH Princess William” so does that apply to males that marry into the Royals? Should Prince Philip also be known as HRH King Elizabeth II?

 

[Lumutqueen]

One of Duchess’s Kate’s styles is “HRH Princess William” so does that apply to males that marry into the Royals? Should Prince Philip also be known as HRH King Elizabeth II?

No, as in 1957 Philip was made a british prince in his own right.

Catherine is not a princess of the blood so takes her titles from her husband, the old fashioned way.

 

[Queen Shirley]

No, as in 1957 Philip was made a british prince in his own right.

Catherine is not a princess of the blood so takes her titles from her husband, the old fashioned way.

What does that mean “in his own right?”

 

[Lumutqueen]

What does that mean “in his own right?”

As a result of one's own claims, qualifications, or efforts, rather than an association with someone else.

Philip is a British Prince regardless of his marriage.

 

[Queen Shirley]

As a result of one's own claims, qualifications, or efforts, rather than an association with someone else.

Philip is a British Prince regardless of his marriage.

O I see now. Thanks.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Prince Philip was born a Prince of Greece and Denmark. He renounced those titles in early 1947 in order to take out British citizenship.

On the 19th November, the day before his wedding, George VI created him HRH The Duke of Edinburgh, Earl of Merioneth and Baron Greenwich. He did not include the word 'Prince' in that list and there are reports that one year, at Balmoral, someone filling in the 'game book' wrote Prince Philip and George VI crossed out the word 'Prince'. The 'game book' is the record of the number of birds or animals shot that day.

After The Queen ascended the throne there were discussions about Philip's titles such as should he be created HRH The Prince Consort or HRH The Prince of the Commonwealth. In the end, in 1957, The Queen issued Letters Patent to create Philip a Prince of the UK in his own right so he could again be correctly titled as Prince Philip. For just over 10 years of his life he wasn't a Prince even though he was a Royal Highness for all but about 11 months of his life.

 

[Mbruno]

When Charles becomes King, will Princess Ann keep the Style Princess Royal?

Yes. Princess Mary (Queen Elizabeth's aunt) kept the style for life even after her brothers became kings.

One of Duchess’s Kate’s styles is “HRH Princess William” so does that apply to males that marry into the Royals? Should Prince Philip also be known as HRH King Elizabeth II?

In the UK, women take the titles and styles of their husbands, but the reverse is not true, i.e. husbands don't take the titles and styles of their wives.


For example, Princess Margaret became HRH The Princess Margaret, Countess of Snowdon when her husband was created Earl of Snowdon, but her husband was never styled HRH The Prince Margaret. In order to become an HRH, the husband of a British princess has to be given that style in his own right as was the case with Prince Philip.



Note that other countries might follow different rules. For example, in Spain, the husbands of women who hold titles of nobility in their own right also use their wives' titles, e.g. the husband of the Duchess of Alba would be called the Duke of Alba. That used to be true also for Spanish royal titles. In fact, even the husband of a reigning queen like Queen Isabella II for example was called HM The King. Nowadays, maybe due to northern European influence, that is no longer the case as, according to a royal decree issued by King Juan Carlos in 1987, the husband of future reigning queens will have the dignity only of "Prince" with the style HRH. Likewise, husbands of "infantas" (Spanish princesses who are not the heir to the throne) are no longer "infantes" or HRHs, but, if their wives are also duchesses, they can still use their wives' ducal titles by courtesy with the style of "Excellency" as customary for Spanish dukes. The husband of the Princess of Asturias (the female heir to the Spanish throne) is the only royal husband who can still use all of his wife's titles and styles (including "HRH The Prince of Asturias") as in the traditional Spanish custom.

 

[SLV]

I was wondering.
There was apparently put a lot of thought into choosing the title of Sussex for H&M. Mainly choosing it, I understand, because the last Duke of Sussex was anti-slavery.
So, what reasoning was used for the Cambridge-title? Do we know?

 

[Osipi]

I was wondering.
There was apparently put a lot of thought into choosing the title of Sussex for H&M. Mainly choosing it, I understand, because the last Duke of Sussex was anti-slavery.
So, what reasoning was used for the Cambridge-title? Do we know?

Actually, I've read in several places where the title Duke of Cambridge was actually slated for Prince Edward when he married but that was changed to the stipulations that hold true today with Edward eventually being created Duke of Edinburgh when its available for recreation.

I don't believe there was a specific meaning behind William being named Duke of Cambridge but more along the lines that it was a dukedom readily available for him. Back at the time of William's wedding, in the polls here, Duke of Sussex was a huge contender also. I don't believe there's a hidden meaning behind Harry being created The Duke of Sussex other than it, again, was readily available for recreation.

 

[Denville]

I seriously doubt if there was a lot of thought put into it.. It was just one of the vacant royal dukedoms and Harry was going to be given one when he got married.
the Last Duke of Sussex also made 2 morganatic marriages.....

 

[QueenEmpath]

What will happen to title of Duke of York after Prince Andrew's death? It's obvious neither Beatrice and Eugenie nor their Children can inherit this Dukehome

 

[Osipi]

It will revert back to the crown and ready to be granted again when a monarch chooses to use it.

 

[tommy100]

The title traditionally goes to the youngest son of the Sovereign. So when Andrew dies it would be available to give out again. Personally I suspect the first person it could go to next is Prince Louis in time.

 

[Mbruno]

What will happen to title of Duke of York after Prince Andrew's death? It's obvious neither Beatrice and Eugenie nor their Children can inherit this Dukedom

Since there is no legal heir, the title will become extinct when the current Duke passes away.



Under recent custom, British princes are normally given a dukedom when they get married. Assuming Prince Louis gets married after his great-uncle is deceased, he may be given the title of Duke of York. Prince Andrew is only 58 though, so it is perfectly possible he will still be alive 30-35 years from now when Louis probably will get married (based on the average age of marriage for royals nowadays). If the title of Duke of York is not available yet and William is already King when Louis marries, then Louis may be given his father's former title of Duke of Cambridge, which will have merged with the Crown by then.

 

[Somebody]

The title traditionally goes to the youngest son of the Sovereign. So when Andrew dies it would be available to give out again. Personally I suspect the first person it could go to next is Prince Louis in time.

I assume you mean second son instead of youngest son. Neither the current duke of York nor his grandfather were youngest sons.

 

[Duke of Leaside]

I assume you mean second son instead of youngest son. Neither the current duke of York nor his grandfather were youngest sons.

Same for Prince Andrew's great-grandfather, George V. He also was a second son (although the eldest living son at the time the Dukedom of York was conferred upon him in 1892).

 

[Dman]

So when are we expected to hear if baby Sussex will be a Prince or Princess?

 

[JR76]

So when are we expected to hear if baby Sussex will be a Prince or Princess?

At the time of birth?

 

[Dman]

At the time of birth?

No, I mean when are we’re going to get a letters patent on their title of prince or princess?

 

[JuliannaVictoria]

No, I mean when are we’re going to get a letters patent on their title of prince or princess?

I'm not sure that's going to happen. I think they'll just leave it until Charles is King. Who knows, I may be wrong.

 

[_Heather_]

To be honest, I'd be very surprised if there are any LP's issued. I think we're much more likely to see the baby styled as the child of a duke rather than as a prince/princess and I'm not even really convinced that that will change when Charles becomes king. I know that technically it's supposed to but I wouldn't be one bit surprised to see the Sussexes decide that they'd rather their children not carry prince/princess titles at all and I think Charles would respect their wishes in that respect.

 

[wyevale]

I too think that the Sussex child/ren will be styled as the offspring of a Ducal couple, principally at the behest of their parents, but also because they are unlikely EVER to be 'working Royals' and will have 'to make their own way in the World'...

 

[Osipi]

I also think that the Sussex kids will be known as children of a duke for their lifetime which brings me to ask a question. If they're titled and styled as such and not HRH and working for the "Firm" would it make it more acceptable to retain dual citizenship throughout their lives?

 

[muriel]

If they're titled and styled as such and not HRH and working for the "Firm" would it make it more acceptable to retain dual citizenship throughout their lives?

Not particularly, in my view. They will be great-grand children of the current monarch, grand children of the next King, so IMO, foreign nationalities will not be acceptable. Whilst the children themselves are unlikely to be working royals, their parents are working royals, and very much at the heart of the royal family. These children will grow up in royal palaces, with royal privileges and the royal machine around them; those perks will be unacceptable for foreigners.

 

[Osipi]

Thanks for the perspective, Muriel. Basically then the Sussex children will be facing the same conundrum as the York girls are now. They'll live in a in-between world.