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  #2481  
Old 11-06-2014, 07:39 PM
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The Roll of the Peerage kept at the Crown Office House of Lords records William as His Royal Highness the Prince William Arthur Philip Louis Duke of Cambridge

Also in the Roll, all the Queen's children as well as the Duke of Edinburgh have the in front of their names but the Dukes of Gloucester and Kent are just Prince without the

The Roll of the Peerage is an officially compiled and maintained list, intended to contain the names of all living peers and is maintained by Ian Denyar, Esq., M.V.O. and Grant Barvister Esq.

The Roll comprises all those Peers who have proved succession to an English, Scottish, Irish, Great Britain or United Kingdom Peerage.

I enquired about this and the reply I received said that In accordance with the direction of HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN Letters Patent passed under the Great Seal of the Realm style the Duke of Cambridge as the Prince William Arthur Philip Louis as recorded in the College of Arms.

When I pointed out the announcement in the Gazette about William's dukedom omits the in front of Prince I was told this is just a shorthand announcement and was assured the LsP creating the dignity specifically style William as the Prince William.
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  #2482  
Old 11-07-2014, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
The Roll of the Peerage kept at the Crown Office House of Lords records William as His Royal Highness the Prince William Arthur Philip Louis Duke of Cambridge

Also in the Roll, all the Queen's children as well as the Duke of Edinburgh have the in front of their names but the Dukes of Gloucester and Kent are just Prince without the

The Roll of the Peerage is an officially compiled and maintained list, intended to contain the names of all living peers and is maintained by Ian Denyar, Esq., M.V.O. and Grant Barvister Esq.

The Roll comprises all those Peers who have proved succession to an English, Scottish, Irish, Great Britain or United Kingdom Peerage.

I enquired about this and the reply I received said that In accordance with the direction of HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN Letters Patent passed under the Great Seal of the Realm style the Duke of Cambridge as the Prince William Arthur Philip Louis as recorded in the College of Arms.

When I pointed out the announcement in the Gazette about William's dukedom omits the in front of Prince I was told this is just a shorthand announcement and was assured the LsP creating the dignity specifically style William as the Prince William.

I attended Prince William's installation as a Knight of The Thistle in 2012. The Queen said The Prince William when she was reading out his appointment so I can only presume that The Queen wouldn't get it wrong (though this does go against everything I personally thought which was only children of the Sovereign or previous Sovereigns are entitled to be the Prince/Princess).


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  #2483  
Old 11-07-2014, 07:12 AM
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What did the Garter announcement call him since that was pre wedding and pre Dukedom?

The Dukes of Gloucester and Kent aren't in the direct line of the monarch while William is. The last time we had adult titled grandkids of a monarch is Queen Victoria, Bertie and his 2 sons.


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  #2484  
Old 11-07-2014, 07:47 AM
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I checked the service when William was made a Knight of the Thistle and the Queen specifically refers to William as the Prince William

Queen Elizabeth II said to her grandson

"It is our pleasure that his Royal Highness the Prince William, Earl of Strathearn, be installed a Knight of the most ancient and most noble Order of the Thistle."

So that's the Roll of the Peerage and Thistle installation that refer to William as the Prince William
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  #2485  
Old 11-07-2014, 07:56 AM
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Where was the wording of the Garter service? Was he always The Prince William or was only after the Cambridge dukedom was conferred on his wedding day? The thistle is post wedding. Garter is pre wedding. If William was The Prince before title, then Harry should be The Prince too.


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  #2486  
Old 11-07-2014, 08:02 AM
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Actually Garter was a typo on my part. I'm not sure but I'll look for the order of service and see what I can find
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  #2487  
Old 11-07-2014, 08:06 AM
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Not necessarily.

William is the future King while Harry is moving further away from the throne.

William can only get closer while Harry will move from 3rd downwards as the years go by.

Look at Margaret - born 4th, rises to 3rd and then 2nd, down to 3rd and continue on downwards to be 11th when she died. Anne born 3rd, up to 2nd and now down to 11th as well. Even Andrew - born 2nd and now down to 5th.

Harry will be moved to the less important status while William will move up as time goes on and so making that distinction is all that is happening now. The same with any future legitimate children - William's will be born HRH but Harry's (unless new LPs are issued for his children or he doesn't become a father until after his father's accession) won't be.
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  #2488  
Old 11-07-2014, 08:08 AM
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It seems the most likely scenario is when William received his dukedom at his marriage at he stopped being HRH Prince William of Wales and became HRH The Prince William Duke of Cambridge.

The same thing would happen to Harry when he marries and gets a title or Charles becomes King which ever comes first while Bea and Eugenie remain of York.


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  #2489  
Old 11-07-2014, 08:13 AM
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http://www.stgeorges-windsor.org/ass...%20Windsor.jpg

William's stall plate at St George's Chapel Windsor omits the. I can't find the Queen's own words during the installation so it appears to be something that was decided since his wedding.
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  #2490  
Old 11-07-2014, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
It seems the most likely scenario is when William received his dukedom at his marriage at he stopped being HRH Prince William of Wales and became HRH The Prince William Duke of Cambridge.

The same thing would happen to Harry when he marries and gets a title or Charles becomes King which ever comes first while Bea and Eugenie remain of York.


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Beatrice and Eugenie will drop the 'of York' official at the time of their marriages as Alexandra dropped 'of Kent' when she married. They will add some reference to their husband e.g. HRH Princess Alexandra, the Hon, Lady Ogilvy - which is now how Alexandra is officially referenced in the CC on occasions while other times she is simple Princess Alexandra but no longer 'of Kent'.
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  #2491  
Old 11-07-2014, 05:02 PM
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I always thought the addition of "The" was for the son and daughter of the Monarch.

As Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward were all HRH The Prince/Princess, whereas the grandchildren were just HRH Prince/Princess.
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  #2492  
Old 11-07-2014, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Beatrice and Eugenie will drop the 'of York' official at the time of their marriages as Alexandra dropped 'of Kent' when she married. They will add some reference to their husband e.g. HRH Princess Alexandra, the Hon, Lady Ogilvy - which is now how Alexandra is officially referenced in the CC on occasions while other times she is simple Princess Alexandra but no longer 'of Kent'.
My thinking was more on the Charles becoming King would trigger the title change for Harry but not for the York girls.


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  #2493  
Old 11-10-2014, 12:44 PM
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Can someone confirm or otherwise clear up...

Mark Phillips was never a HRH, right?

Was he then considered a "royal" or not?
And is Zara technically "royal?" (see: http://ukroyaltitles.tumblr.com/post...illips-reality)
I ask because on the Zara thread there is an Aussie News clip in which Zara is referred to as the only royal to ever win an Olympic medal. Is that technically true?
Thanks for any clarity. I've made more mistakes on this thread than anyone can count, so now I ask.
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  #2494  
Old 11-10-2014, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
Can someone confirm or otherwise clear up...

Mark Phillips was never a HRH, right?

Was he then considered a "royal" or not?
And is Zara technically "royal?" (see: Dispelling myths: The Phillips Reality)
I ask because on the Zara thread there is an Aussie News clip in which Zara is referred to as the only royal to ever win an Olympic medal. Is that technically true?
Thanks for any clarity. I've made more mistakes on this thread than anyone can count, so now I ask.
No, Mark Phillips was never an HRH, but by his marriage he was a member of the royal family. In MY opinion, Zara and Peter Phillips are as royal as their cousins, even though they do not hold any titles. Imagine if the Princess Royal decided to go about as Mrs Anne Laurence (or rather Lady as he is a Sir), I shouldn't imagine she would be any less royal!

BTW, I don't remember any mistakes you have made, so if you did they were small ones lol
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  #2495  
Old 11-10-2014, 01:02 PM
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Questions about British Styles and Titles

Member of royal family but not HRH. Zara is not first royal to win a Olympic medal. Constantine of Greece won a gold in 1960 for sailing.

There have been several royal Olympic participants.

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  #2496  
Old 11-10-2014, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
Can someone confirm or otherwise clear up...

Mark Phillips was never a HRH, right?

Was he then considered a "royal" or not?
And is Zara technically "royal?" (see: Dispelling myths: The Phillips Reality)
I ask because on the Zara thread there is an Aussie News clip in which Zara is referred to as the only royal to ever win an Olympic medal. Is that technically true?
Thanks for any clarity. I've made more mistakes on this thread than anyone can count, so now I ask.
According to Princess Anne, her children are not royal, they just have the Queen as their grandmother.
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  #2497  
Old 11-10-2014, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Excalibur View Post
According to Princess Anne, her children are not royal, they just have the Queen as their grandmother.
Hahaha, well I wouldn't dream of disagreeing with Princess Anne! Nonetheless, they still have royal blood in their veins!
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  #2498  
Old 11-10-2014, 01:35 PM
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I guess it depends on how people want to define royal and how many degrees of separation from the monarch do we extend the definition.

Personally I limited it to HRH and Prince/ss. For me HRH the Duke of Gloucester is most certainly royal but I don't consider the same with Zara.

Zara is certainly a member of the Queen's family but I don't consider her a member of the Royal Family.

Others have different definitions though.
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  #2499  
Old 11-10-2014, 01:41 PM
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According the British Monarchy website these are the members of the current royal family. All are HRH and Prince/ss

http://www.royal.gov.uk/ThecurrentRo.../Overview.aspx
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  #2500  
Old 11-10-2014, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Not necessarily.

Harry will be moved to the less important status while William will move up as time goes on and so making that distinction is all that is happening now. The same with any future legitimate children - William's will be born HRH but Harry's (unless new LPs are issued for his children or he doesn't become a father until after his father's accession) won't be.

Prince William's children are the only great-grandchildren of the Queen who are currently entitled to be princes/princesses as children of the eldest living son of the Prince of Wales. I assume then that Harry's children, if born before the Prince of Wales ascends the throne, will bear no title other than Lord/Lady xxx Windsor. What happens though after Charles becomes king ? Would Harry's children become princes then ?
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