The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #2441  
Old 05-04-2014, 06:01 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,377
Bertie, that was beautifully put.

One correction; Frederick continued to hold the titles Duke of Cornwall and Edinburgh until his death, he just didn't use them primarily after being created Prince of Wales.

Interestingly, when he was king he created one of his brothers Duke of Edinburgh, allowing the title to continue (at least for a time).
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2442  
Old 05-04-2014, 06:31 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 1,433
If William and Kate have another son, he could be named Duke of Cambridge when William is King. Since the Gloucester and Kent dukedoms have several male heirs and Andrew may still be alive so the York dukedom wouldn't be free yet.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2443  
Old 05-27-2014, 07:09 PM
kbk kbk is offline
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toruń, Poland
Posts: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
the fact Charles will cease to be a Prince the moment he ascends to the Throne.
IMO Charles will never cease to be a Prince as he was born one (first as the son of Princess Elizabeth, under Letters Patent by George VI and now as the son of the monarch, under letters patent by George V). And in fact, the title (or maybe style) of Prince will remain one of his most traditional, official titles (styles). It goes something like Most High, Most Mighty Prince, Lord Charles etc., etc. (not citing directly!)... We'll see or listen that surely at his accession and funeral and only on that two occassions, I think.
In the past, monarchs were always titled as Princes and Princesses and additionally, Kings and Queens of their realms, for example Princess Anne (or even Lady Anne!), Queen of Great Britain, Prince James, King of England, Prince Philip, King of Spain...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2444  
Old 05-27-2014, 07:16 PM
kbk kbk is offline
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toruń, Poland
Posts: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
I'm confused. I thought Royals take their precedence only from the Sovereign.
You're absolutely right. The official precedence among members of the Royal Family is derived strictly from their rank of kinship to the CURRENT Sovereign. However, private precedence and simply the so-called life do not cover this at all, as we see Harry taking precedence over his uncles etc.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2445  
Old 05-27-2014, 07:29 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 4,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
If William and Kate have another son, he could be named Duke of Cambridge when William is King. Since the Gloucester and Kent dukedoms have several male heirs and Andrew may still be alive so the York dukedom wouldn't be free yet.
When William becomes King, all his titles (with the exception of Prince of Wales if Charles invests him as such) will go directly to his eldest son George. In the peerage, all titles are inherited by the eldest male in relation to the title holder.
__________________
“We live in a world where we have to hide to make love, while violence is practiced in broad daylight.”
~~~ John Lennon ~~~
Reply With Quote
  #2446  
Old 05-27-2014, 07:38 PM
kbk kbk is offline
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toruń, Poland
Posts: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
When William becomes King, all his titles (with the exception of Prince of Wales if Charles invests him as such) will go directly to his eldest son George. In the peerage, all titles are inherited by the eldest male in relation to the title holder.
When William becomes King all his titles will merge in the crown and George will become the next Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay in his right as the monarch's eldest son and heir apparent.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2447  
Old 05-27-2014, 07:44 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
When William becomes King, all his titles (with the exception of Prince of Wales if Charles invests him as such) will go directly to his eldest son George. In the peerage, all titles are inherited by the eldest male in relation to the title holder.
When William becomes king none of his titles will go to George, with the exception of the title Duke of Cornwall. All of William's other titles will be merged with the crown, and even the title Duke of Cornwall will really be automatically recreated for George as it's not an inheritable title but one that belongs automatically to any person who meets the requirements.

In order for George to become the 2nd Duke of Cambridge William will have to die without having become King. Once he is King, he could recreate the title for George, but it's not really likely given as George will automatically be Duke of Cornwall.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2448  
Old 05-28-2014, 04:01 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 4,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
When William becomes king none of his titles will go to George, with the exception of the title Duke of Cornwall. All of William's other titles will be merged with the crown, and even the title Duke of Cornwall will really be automatically recreated for George as it's not an inheritable title but one that belongs automatically to any person who meets the requirements.

In order for George to become the 2nd Duke of Cambridge William will have to die without having become King. Once he is King, he could recreate the title for George, but it's not really likely given as George will automatically be Duke of Cornwall.
Thanks Ish. Somehow, somewhere, I forgot that one little detail about titles merging with the Crown once one becomes King.

Then it is a good possibility that William's second son (or perhaps daughter if they ever go for equal primogeniture in the peerage) could be created the Duke of Cambridge.

This is such a fascinating subject for me. More twists and turns and ins and out and hidden niches than a murder mystery sometimes.
__________________
“We live in a world where we have to hide to make love, while violence is practiced in broad daylight.”
~~~ John Lennon ~~~
Reply With Quote
  #2449  
Old 06-12-2014, 09:09 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 1,530
Edward Windsor, Baron Downpatrick, is the son of the Earl of St. Andrews.
What is the royal history of the title of Baron Downpatrick?
Prince Albert Victor, the eldest son of Albert Edward, Prince of Wales, was the Duke of Clarence and Avondale.
Has an English or Scottish prince had the title of just Duke of Avondale?
Before his wedding day in 1947, Prince Philip was granted the distinction of being addressed as His Royal Highness.
Was this necessary because he had born as a Prince of Greece and thus would have been a Royal Highness?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2450  
Old 06-13-2014, 01:19 AM
wbenson's Avatar
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: -, United States
Posts: 2,248
It doesn't have much of a royal history. The first time the title was ever granted was 1934 (alongside the dukedom of Kent and the earldom of St. Andrews), and the current Lord Downpatrick is the first person to ever use it by courtesy.
__________________
TRF rules and FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #2451  
Old 06-13-2014, 09:40 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 1,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
It doesn't have much of a royal history. The first time the title was ever granted was 1934 (alongside the dukedom of Kent and the earldom of St. Andrews), and the current Lord Downpatrick is the first person to ever use it by courtesy.
Wbenson, Thank you for the information about the history of the title of Baron Downpatrick.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2452  
Old 10-10-2014, 11:52 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Balmoral, United Kingdom
Posts: 283
I have been reading through the Monarchy Under Charles thread, and although it highly unlikely to ever happen, I have been wondering what the lives of Royals who give up their styles and titles would be like after doing so.

For instance if the Duke of York's daughter's simply became Miss or Lady Beatrice and Eugenie Windsor-Mountbatten, several years later, would they still be seen and thought of as Royals? Likewise, if Edward had simply become Mr Windsor-Mountbatten prior to marriage, and led an entirely private life, would he and his family still be seen as being royal?
__________________
Virtually Royalty
Reply With Quote
  #2453  
Old 10-10-2014, 12:18 PM
cepe's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,658
Quote:
Originally Posted by royal-blue View Post
I have been reading through the Monarchy Under Charles thread, and although it highly unlikely to ever happen, I have been wondering what the lives of Royals who give up their styles and titles would be like after doing so.

For instance if the Duke of York's daughter's simply became Miss or Lady Beatrice and Eugenie Windsor-Mountbatten, several years later, would they still be seen and thought of as Royals? Likewise, if Edward had simply become Mr Windsor-Mountbatten prior to marriage, and led an entirely private life, would he and his family still be seen as being royal?
Both Zara and Peter Philips have never had a title but are regularly described and/or considered as royal.

so I think the answer to your question is yes, they would be considered royal, particularly Edward as the son of a Queen Regnant
__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #2454  
Old 10-10-2014, 01:01 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 1,433
Not officially royal but member of the royal family. Like Peter and Zara, David Linley and Sarah Chatto- no royal duties but invited to royal events.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2455  
Old 10-10-2014, 03:13 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,377
The Duchess of Kent tries to not use her styles and titles in much of her life - when she does charity events and the like she asks to be introduced as Katharine, Duchess of Kent, and not HRH the Duchess of Kent. When she does royal duties it tends to be a part of the big family things, but when she gets recognition in the CC it's always with her proper titles.

I don't think there really are any ways for people who already have royal titles and status to give them up in Britain - Edward chose to have his children not be styled as royals before they were born, but he hasn't given up his own titles.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2456  
Old 11-03-2014, 06:19 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Balmoral, United Kingdom
Posts: 283
I was wondering why Prince George doesn't use his father's subsidiary title of Earl of Strathearn? Viscount Linley and Viscount Severn use their father's second title.

Likewise, Charles was never known as Earl of Merioneth, and William was never known as Earl of Chester and Carrick.

Is there a rule on using who can and cannot use their father's subsidiary titles?
__________________
Virtually Royalty
Reply With Quote
  #2457  
Old 11-03-2014, 06:30 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 1,433
Questions about British Styles and Titles

The simplest answer that George actually has a title which is Prince of the UK so he doesn't use a courtesy title from his father. David Armstrong Jones is styled as a son of an Earl and so is James. If Edward and Sophie didn't decided to style their kids as children of a peer instead of a prince, then James and Louise would be HRH Prince James and Princess Louise of Wessex

A courtesy title is used for children of peers who are not Prince or Princess in their own right. The Kent current generation are HRH Prince and Princess. The children of the Duke of Kent are not HRHs so they are styled as children of a Duke


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2458  
Old 11-03-2014, 06:51 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,377
Quote:
Originally Posted by royal-blue View Post
I was wondering why Prince George doesn't use his father's subsidiary title of Earl of Strathearn? Viscount Linley and Viscount Severn use their father's second title.

Likewise, Charles was never known as Earl of Merioneth, and William was never known as Earl of Chester and Carrick.

Is there a rule on using who can and cannot use their father's subsidiary titles?

You only use courtesy titles if you don't have your own titles. George is a Prince in his own right, therefore doesn't use any titles by courtesy - likewise with William and Charles. If Andrew had had a son, the son wouldn't have used any courtesy titles either - he would have been Prince Whatever of York.

The Wessex children don't have (or don't use) their own titles, so they use courtesy titles instead - Louise is styled as the daughter of an Earl, while James uses his father's subsidiary title as the heir apparent (only the heir apparent uses subsidiary titles).
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2459  
Old 11-06-2014, 08:39 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 870
The Roll of the Peerage kept at the Crown Office House of Lords records William as His Royal Highness the Prince William Arthur Philip Louis Duke of Cambridge

Also in the Roll, all the Queen's children as well as the Duke of Edinburgh have the in front of their names but the Dukes of Gloucester and Kent are just Prince without the

The Roll of the Peerage is an officially compiled and maintained list, intended to contain the names of all living peers and is maintained by Ian Denyar, Esq., M.V.O. and Grant Barvister Esq.

The Roll comprises all those Peers who have proved succession to an English, Scottish, Irish, Great Britain or United Kingdom Peerage.

I enquired about this and the reply I received said that In accordance with the direction of HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN Letters Patent passed under the Great Seal of the Realm style the Duke of Cambridge as the Prince William Arthur Philip Louis as recorded in the College of Arms.

When I pointed out the announcement in the Gazette about William's dukedom omits the in front of Prince I was told this is just a shorthand announcement and was assured the LsP creating the dignity specifically style William as the Prince William.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2460  
Old 11-07-2014, 06:35 AM
RoyalProtocol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Belfast, United Kingdom
Posts: 673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
The Roll of the Peerage kept at the Crown Office House of Lords records William as His Royal Highness the Prince William Arthur Philip Louis Duke of Cambridge

Also in the Roll, all the Queen's children as well as the Duke of Edinburgh have the in front of their names but the Dukes of Gloucester and Kent are just Prince without the

The Roll of the Peerage is an officially compiled and maintained list, intended to contain the names of all living peers and is maintained by Ian Denyar, Esq., M.V.O. and Grant Barvister Esq.

The Roll comprises all those Peers who have proved succession to an English, Scottish, Irish, Great Britain or United Kingdom Peerage.

I enquired about this and the reply I received said that In accordance with the direction of HER MAJESTY THE QUEEN Letters Patent passed under the Great Seal of the Realm style the Duke of Cambridge as the Prince William Arthur Philip Louis as recorded in the College of Arms.

When I pointed out the announcement in the Gazette about William's dukedom omits the in front of Prince I was told this is just a shorthand announcement and was assured the LsP creating the dignity specifically style William as the Prince William.

I attended Prince William's installation as a Knight of The Thistle in 2012. The Queen said The Prince William when she was reading out his appointment so I can only presume that The Queen wouldn't get it wrong (though this does go against everything I personally thought which was only children of the Sovereign or previous Sovereigns are entitled to be the Prince/Princess).


Sent from my iPad using The Royals Community
__________________

__________________
Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II
59 Years of Dedicated and Devoted Service

God Save The Queen!



Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
british royal family, consort, spouse, styles and titles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Questions About [non-British] Styles and Titles Lord Sosnowitz Royal Ceremony and Protocol 729 10-09-2014 04:24 PM
Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children Aussie Princess Prince Harry and Prince William 1110 07-12-2014 10:00 PM
Diana's Styles and Titles florawindsor Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 573 11-14-2013 11:59 AM
Styles and Titles Nahla10 Ruling Family of Dubai 36 08-08-2013 12:05 PM
Abdication Beatrix and Inauguration WA: Titles, Names, Succession, Precedence Princess Robijn Major Royal Events 67 05-24-2013 03:14 PM




Popular Tags
abdication belgium birth carl philip charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events fashion germany grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jordan king carl xvi gustav king constantine ii king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander letizia luxembourg nobility official visit olympic games ottoman pregnancy president hollande prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince daniel prince floris prince maurits prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess anita princess ariane princess astrid princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess mary queen anne-marie queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen silvia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit stockholm sweden the hague visit wedding



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:59 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]