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  #2401  
Old 03-10-2014, 07:13 AM
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I guess they originally assumed that the children of daughters would have their own titles derived from the princes their mothers married.
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  #2402  
Old 03-10-2014, 11:12 AM
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Sadly, I could see that happening. I do not trust Charles an inch when he becomes King. He seems hell bent on ensuring it is JUST him, Camilla, William and Catherine and their son and Harry. I would not put it past him to try and get noble titles for Camilla's children down the road when he becomes King.

You to think it about it from a psychological point of view. This whole Princess Consort thing is just a burst of wind. Unless Parliament changes the law, Camilla will be queen when he ascends.

I shudder to think of his siblings, nieces and nephews, their families, his mother's first cousins and their families all shoved to the side out of the way completely when he becomes King.

This is a man, albeit a supportive one, who is very spoiled as we have seen and very much the "victim" in his own mind from letters, interviews, published books, etc. who felt he was wronged in life in many ways. He was jealous of Diana's popularity, and I am sure he is not exactly thrilled about how popular William and Catherine are. While I am sure he loves his family, is tickled pink to be a grandfather, he is just waiting to finally get his own way.
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  #2403  
Old 03-10-2014, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nudge View Post
I agree with the silliness. It makes no sense to remove the gender bias in the succession while retaining it in deciding who qualifies as a royal.

Personally, I think a better system would be to simply declare that Royal Highnesses are those descendants of a Sovereign born prior to the end of His/Her Reign, and their spouses.

It inherently limits the size of the royal family, and has no gender bias.

I don't agree with the idea of limiting the HRH to the children born in the reign of the present monarch e.g. HRH The Duke of Kent would still be HRH but both his sister and brother wouldn't be. The Duke of Gloucester's children also wouldn't be HRH but that would have been both of them.

Personally I believe it should just be the children of the monarch and the children of the heir to the throne and then stop. Any grandchildren of the monarch from the 2nd in line can wait until they are the children of the heir.
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  #2404  
Old 03-10-2014, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade View Post
Sadly, I could see that happening. I do not trust Charles an inch when he becomes King. He seems hell bent on ensuring it is JUST him, Camilla, William and Catherine and their son and Harry. I would not put it past him to try and get noble titles for Camilla's children down the road when he becomes King.
I totally disagree with this. He won't be giving titles to Camilla's children or the Middleton's (William probably will give his father in law a Dukedom but not Charles).

My argument about removing the HRHs from Beatrice and Eugenie is because I think the intention is to only have HRH for the heir's children and thus deny it to Harry's children, his own grandchildren. To do that to Harry would mean asking Beatrice and Eugenie to voluntarily renounce their titles or remove it - not from nastiness but to restrict HRH's from Harry's children.


Quote:
You to think it about it from a psychological point of view. This whole Princess Consort thing is just a burst of wind. Unless Parliament changes the law, Camilla will be queen when he ascends.
The POW website continues to have the 'intention' up there and until that is removed there is no justification for thinking that Charles and Camilla actually won't do this. They already know that the PM of the day has said legislation will be required so either they know that that legislation will be brought forward or that there is another way that hasn't been made public.

Quote:
I shudder to think of his siblings, nieces and nephews, their families, his mother's first cousins and their families all shoved to the side out of the way completely when he becomes King.
Charles isn't a fool and he knows that his siblings and his mother's HRH first cousins have worked for the nation and he won't stop them. As the Kent's are all already in their 70s with the Duke 80 next year and Alexandra the following year he probably won't have to worry too much about them - they will have retired or passed away by the time he becomes King. The Gloucester's are good friends, due to the age difference - Charles is closer in age to Richard than his mother is even though they are different generations.

There has never been any suggestion that he wants to stop his siblings or mother's cousins from continuing their work and those who say otherwise are basing that on their own perception of Charles which says more about them than Charles.

The suggestion has only ever been that Beatrice and Eugenie won't be needed and that hasn't come from Charles either but from a staff member back in the early 90s and never been confirmed by anyone.
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  #2405  
Old 03-10-2014, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I totally disagree with this. He won't be giving titles to Camilla's children or the Middleton's (William probably will give his father in law a Dukedom but not Charles).

My argument about removing the HRHs from Beatrice and Eugenie is because I think the intention is to only have HRH for the heir's children and thus deny it to Harry's children, his own grandchildren. To do that to Harry would mean asking Beatrice and Eugenie to voluntarily renounce their titles or remove it - not from nastiness but to restrict HRH's from Harry's children.




The POW website continues to have the 'intention' up there and until that is removed there is no justification for thinking that Charles and Camilla actually won't do this. They already know that the PM of the day has said legislation will be required so either they know that that legislation will be brought forward or that there is another way that hasn't been made public.



Charles isn't a fool and he knows that his siblings and his mother's HRH first cousins have worked for the nation and he won't stop them. As the Kent's are all already in their 70s with the Duke 80 next year and Alexandra the following year he probably won't have to worry too much about them - they will have retired or passed away by the time he becomes King. The Gloucester's are good friends, due to the age difference - Charles is closer in age to Richard than his mother is even though they are different generations.

There has never been any suggestion that he wants to stop his siblings or mother's cousins from continuing their work and those who say otherwise are basing that on their own perception of Charles which says more about them than Charles.

The suggestion has only ever been that Beatrice and Eugenie won't be needed and that hasn't come from Charles either but from a staff member back in the early 90s and never been confirmed by anyone.
Oops.. sorry, we forgot, you know everything about royalty.

Moving along.. I look forward to the day I see King William and Queen Catherine.
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  #2406  
Old 03-10-2014, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade View Post
Sadly, I could see that happening. I do not trust Charles an inch when he becomes King. He seems hell bent on ensuring it is JUST him, Camilla, William and Catherine and their son and Harry. I would not put it past him to try and get noble titles for Camilla's children down the road when he becomes King.

You to think it about it from a psychological point of view. This whole Princess Consort thing is just a burst of wind. Unless Parliament changes the law, Camilla will be queen when he ascends.

I shudder to think of his siblings, nieces and nephews, their families, his mother's first cousins and their families all shoved to the side out of the way completely when he becomes King.

This is a man, albeit a supportive one, who is very spoiled as we have seen and very much the "victim" in his own mind from letters, interviews, published books, etc. who felt he was wronged in life in many ways. He was jealous of Diana's popularity, and I am sure he is not exactly thrilled about how popular William and Catherine are. While I am sure he loves his family, is tickled pink to be a grandfather, he is just waiting to finally get his own way.
If you are going to make a statement like that then you need to back it up.

There is no evidence anywhere that I can find to support Charles removing/reducing the existing role of any working members of the BRF. None.

I dont see the removal of any status in the future. Beatrice and Eugenie will keep their HRHs, there will be no titles when they marry and they will become v minor members of the family.

I dont see any titles being given out either, with the exception of Edward becoming Duke of Edinburgh. I toyed with the idea that Anne might like a title in her own right to pass on to Peter but I dropped that fairly quickly.

As for the Middleton's - no title for them either IMO.
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  #2407  
Old 03-10-2014, 09:23 PM
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I doubt Anne would want an inheritable title of her own for Peter to one day have, as the rumour is that at their marriage Mark declined a title, then when Peter was born they declined a title for him. If Anne wanted titles for her children, I think they'd have been shelled out by now.

Bertie, you mentioned the idea that William will create his father-in-law a Duke. I doubt that will go over well if and when it happens.
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  #2408  
Old 03-10-2014, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
I doubt Anne would want an inheritable title of her own for Peter to one day have, as the rumour is that at their marriage Mark declined a title, then when Peter was born they declined a title for him. If Anne wanted titles for her children, I think they'd have been shelled out by now.

Bertie, you mentioned the idea that William will create his father-in-law a Duke. I doubt that will go over well if and when it happens.
I did say that I didn't think that Anne/Peter would want a title.
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  #2409  
Old 03-10-2014, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
I doubt Anne would want an inheritable title of her own for Peter to one day have, as the rumour is that at their marriage Mark declined a title, then when Peter was born they declined a title for him. If Anne wanted titles for her children, I think they'd have been shelled out by now.

Bertie, you mentioned the idea that William will create his father-in-law a Duke. I doubt that will go over well if and when it happens.
I agree that it wouldn't go over well but I can see it happening. I do think that William will be convinced by Kate and the rest of the Middleton clan that it is inappropriate for the in-laws of the monarch and future monarchs to not have titles.
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  #2410  
Old 03-10-2014, 10:23 PM
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Mike is almost the same age as Prince Charles. It is quite possible by the time William is King that Mike has passed. IMO, the Middletons have treated William like a son and welcomed him into their close knit family for years and William has returned their love and support. They are not out to snag a title. Their daughter just happen to fall in love with a future King who returned her love.
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  #2411  
Old 03-11-2014, 01:55 AM
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I think HRH titles should only be given to the monarch's children & grandchildren regardless of gender or gender of parent.

The great grandchildren should be given HH when they turn 25, if the monarch is still alive. If the monarch is not alive then they should be given titles of children of a Duke when they turn 25.

There are very few monarchs that have lived to see great grandchildren. With people marrying later & having children in their 30s, the chances of great-grandchildren who are 25 when their great grandparent is a monarch is very slim.

George should not have received the title of HRH or prince until Charles became king.
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  #2412  
Old 03-11-2014, 02:28 AM
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I don't think Mr & Mrs Middleton are out to get any titles as some would like to think but I think it would be nice if they're given an honorary award at some point down the line.
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  #2413  
Old 03-11-2014, 02:40 AM
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I don't think Mr & Mrs Middleton are out to get any titles as some would like to think but I think it would be nice if they're given an honorary award at some point down the line.
What do you mean by an honorary award?
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  #2414  
Old 03-11-2014, 02:43 AM
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Although I think it is possible that the Middleton's will get a title when William is King I would in no way support it - if it is just for being George's maternal family. Any honour, whether a title or anything else should be earnt and they haven't done anything all that marvellous to earn one.
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  #2415  
Old 03-11-2014, 03:07 AM
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I can't think of any reason the Middletons have done/are likely to do that would warrant the receiving of any honour. If one of them does, fine, but just being Kate's mother or father isn't enough.

The BBC News site says this: "British honours are awarded on merit, for exceptional achievement or service" and "They are now awarded for prominent national or regional roles and to those making distinguished or notable contributions in their own specific areas of activity. The honour of an MBE, in particular, can be given for achievement or service in the community."

Perhaps babysitting services will be deemed enough.
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  #2416  
Old 03-11-2014, 04:35 AM
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.. and IF the Middletons WHERE given a title, it wouldn't be a Dukedom but rather a Knighthood Nowadays only Members of the royal family recieve anything more than that.

Mrs Thatcher got to be a Baroness ... not more
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  #2417  
Old 03-11-2014, 04:44 AM
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The only knighthood that Mike Middleton could possibly get is one that is within the gift of the Monarch. Knight Commander or Knight Grand Cross of the RVO.

But the chances of this happening are very remote and the climate about honours in GB (which is all I know about) would have to change. People are tired of politicians giving their friends honours for no good reason. The honours that the Queen gives directly are not noticed, mainly because the public dont know the people concerned - but they know the Middletons. It would be a mistake IMO to hand out an honour if they have not done anything to earn it - and having a future King as a grandson is not enough.
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  #2418  
Old 03-13-2014, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Personally I believe it should just be the children of the monarch and the children of the heir to the throne and then stop. Any grandchildren of the monarch from the 2nd in line can wait until they are the children of the heir.
I agree and this is likely to happen in the future, probably once Charles is King and issues new Letters Patent. Times have changed and I'm sure Harry's future children won't miss it.
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  #2419  
Old 03-13-2014, 12:05 PM
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Questions about British Styles and Titles

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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Bertie, you mentioned the idea that William will create his father-in-law a Duke. I doubt that will go over well if and when it happens.
There is zero chance of William creating his father-in-law a Duke. It has long been accepted practice the Crown no longer creates any peerages of that degree except for members of the royal family or on advice from the Prime Minister.
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  #2420  
Old 03-13-2014, 03:47 PM
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The argument could be made that as the in-laws of the King, when William is in that position and certainly as the relatives of George that they are part of the royal family in the future their blood will be in the royal family. 'Accepted practice' isn't a law but just a changed in ideas. As there is no political roles now attached to the creating of peers, after the first generation, it is possible to create a new peer and not ask the PM. Personally I hope it doesn't happen but I can see it happening in the future.
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