The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #2261  
Old 11-12-2013, 09:17 PM
Baroness of Books's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bookstacks, United States
Posts: 5,772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I suspect that the legislation will be introduced and will be shot down on the grounds of discrimination against one woman - denying her the same rights as every other woman.
Absolutely, and this seems the strongest case that Camilla will be Queen Consort. Why is she less deserving than her predecessors who carried the title just because a certain segment of the population can't accept her as the wife of a king? How many Queen Consorts throughout British history based on that would have then been denied the title because of their unpopularity? Quite a few, I'd wager. Camilla should not go down in history as being denied a rightful title because of such discrimination.
__________________

__________________
A book should be either a bandit or a rebel or a man in the crowd..... D.H. Lawrence
Reply With Quote
  #2262  
Old 11-12-2013, 09:30 PM
cepe's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
It's a tricky situation but I applaud Camilla for taking her secondary title and working her tail off as HRH The Duchess of Cornwall. She respected Diana's memory, her sons and the people over the title of HRH The Princess of Wales and think that's great.

I think if Charles and Camilla want the title HRH The Princess Consort to come into law, then I think that Parliament should allow that to happen. If Charles & Camilla agree on the title Queen Consort, then I think that should happen.

I'm actually looking forward to William being invested as HRH The Prince of Wales and Catherine becoming HRH The Princess of Wales. I'm sure Charles will give his son the title as soon as he can.

Imagine putting a law in place for 1 person - poss. 3 readings in both houses, lots of time and debate; lots of raking over old news. For someone who will probably be Queen for 20 years. In the whole expanse of the monarchy - why on earth do that? The monarchy is supposedly greater than one individual.
__________________

__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #2263  
Old 11-12-2013, 09:38 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Rio de Janeiro and Petrópolis, Brazil
Posts: 1,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
Imagine putting a law in place for 1 person - poss. 3 readings in both houses, lots of time and debate; lots of raking over old news.
And all that just after Queen Elizabeth II's death. They really think the Prime Minister will ask the new King to signe a law stripping his wife from her titles on the day his mother died? This ideia sounds ridiculous to me.
Reply With Quote
  #2264  
Old 11-12-2013, 09:45 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: katonah, United States
Posts: 2,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
I think that to change something so key to the constitutional monarchy system for one occasion for one individual is wrong.
Well you have the prescedent in the immediate family of QEII's aunt Wallis, who was denied equal status to her husband. And Wallis had no possibility of being Queen. None the less, she was denied, by letters patent, no need to involve the entire government. Seems straightforward to me. And it IS what Charles announced at the time. Also, there was a lot published about Camilla not wanting to be queen before she agreed to marry him, so it seems quite plausible that she has no desire to be Queen.
Reply With Quote
  #2265  
Old 11-12-2013, 09:56 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ipswich, United Kingdom
Posts: 728
There is no precedent of the wife of the King being denied being Queen. You marry the heir to the throne you expect that you may be Queen is some point in the future.
Reply With Quote
  #2266  
Old 11-12-2013, 09:59 PM
cepe's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
Well you have the prescedent in the immediate family of QEII's aunt Wallis, who was denied equal status to her husband. And Wallis had no possibility of being Queen. None the less, she was denied, by letters patent, no need to involve the entire government. Seems straightforward to me. And it IS what Charles announced at the time. Also, there was a lot published about Camilla not wanting to be queen before she agreed to marry him, so it seems quite plausible that she has no desire to be Queen.
Key point missed here. Wallis Simpson was not married to the King, and the country does not recognise morganatic marriages as legal. No preescedent at all
__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #2267  
Old 11-12-2013, 10:03 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 9,017
The difference is that the title The Queen Consort is the only title available for the wife of The King.

Wallis wasn't denied the title of the wife of her husband - i.e. she did become The Duchess of Windsor - to stop her doing that would have been impossible without legislation. The LPs that have been referred to relate to the LPs that created Edward as Duke of Windsor and so it could be included in those LPs that the HRH only applied to him and him alone and not to his spouse or children - despite the earlier 1917s LPs.

To stop her using a style could be done via LPs - to stop her taking her husband's titles is a different situation entirely.

As there a no LPs to create Charles HM The King there can be no LPs to strip his wife of HM The Queen - it needs new legislation specifically to deny the wife of HM The King to take on a different title - and unlike The Duchess of Cornwall he doesn't have any other titles she could use.
Reply With Quote
  #2268  
Old 11-12-2013, 10:36 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 1,710
It doesn't make sense to pass a law to change queen to princess consort just for Camilla especially right after the Queen death. Just because Camilla was Charles's mistress is not a reason to deny her the proper title. How many Kings were adulters ? Almost all of them but they still were King and Head of the CoE.
Reply With Quote
  #2269  
Old 11-12-2013, 10:48 PM
cepe's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,880
What is really daft is that whilst this would be going through the parliamentary process, her legal title would be Queen. So why bother?

There are more important things for our politicans to be dealing with, frankly.
__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #2270  
Old 11-12-2013, 10:56 PM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 3,090
There is also some suggestion that the change will have to be ratified by all the Realms, too. I haven't thought much on this though. Bertie, what say you?
Reply With Quote
  #2271  
Old 11-12-2013, 11:22 PM
Dman's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 8,091
When The Queen is near the end and close her eyes, the Camilla/Queen issue is going to hit the fan. I'm not sure Charles, Camilla, the royal family, palace officials and the government is looking forward to that headache.
__________________
"If you are always trying to be normal you will never know how amazing you can be."

Dr. Maya Angelou
Reply With Quote
  #2272  
Old 11-12-2013, 11:49 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Atlanta, United States
Posts: 1,710
I don't think so. When the queen dies, there will be an accession council and the announcement of the new King from SJP. Then the lying in state and funeral. That is going to take 7 to 10 days and no politician is going to raise a stink about Camilla during that time period in difference to the late queen. Plus William and Harry will treat Camilla as the Queen.
Reply With Quote
  #2273  
Old 11-12-2013, 11:58 PM
cepe's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,880
The Accession Council is ceremonial and their announcement has no legal status. The instant the Queen dies, Charles is King and Camilla is Queen. So even longer in reality. You're right that no one will be creating problems prior to the funeral.
__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #2274  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:00 AM
Dman's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 8,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
I don't think so. When the queen dies, there will be an accession council and the announcement of the new King from SJP. Then the lying in state and funeral. That is going to take 7 to 10 days and no politician is going to raise a stink about Camilla during that time period in difference to the late queen. Plus William and Harry will treat Camilla as the Queen.
I know that the world will be busy in morning but I mean the debates will rise leading up to the next Coronation. Trust me, there will be a great deal of debates, stories, official statements, etc, going on. It's not going to be pretty and I think we have to brace ourselves for that.
__________________
"If you are always trying to be normal you will never know how amazing you can be."

Dr. Maya Angelou
Reply With Quote
  #2275  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:08 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 9,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
There is also some suggestion that the change will have to be ratified by all the Realms, too. I haven't thought much on this though. Bertie, what say you?
As she is the consort I don't think the realms have an issue. They were consulted in 1936 over the abdication but that was to do with the King himself not Wallis.

The real precedent is Anne Boleyn - definitely a figure in the divorce of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon - but she was crowned as Queen in a personal and separate ceremony.
Reply With Quote
  #2276  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:48 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 391
The situation is known now and has been for years.
I expect that broad general policies have already been outlined and agreed upon by those most concerned.
I'm sure there will be no unseemly debate or appearance of dithering :)
Reply With Quote
  #2277  
Old 11-13-2013, 01:16 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 362
Most people under the age of about 25 would have very little memory of Diana. As time goes on, this group will become larger and larger.

I think it was wise to use the Duchess of Cornwall title as it would have caused too much of a stir at the time to have a new Princess of Wales, but I don't think the Princess Consort title will come to pass. It won't matter any longer.
Reply With Quote
  #2278  
Old 11-13-2013, 09:32 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 1,055
I agree with yvr girl to a point. As time goes on, Diana's memory will continue to fade into history. For most people life goes on but there will always be some people who will insist on reliving the past.

The more interesting question is whether William and Catherine will become the Prince and Princess of Wales. Obviously, people would begin to associate the title with Catherine rather than Diana, which is the way it should be.

Personally, for reasons that have nothing to do with Camilla, I think the male and female consort should adopt equivalent titles. Philip is known as "Prince Consort" and Camilla and Catherine should be known as "Princess Consort" when the time comes.
Reply With Quote
  #2279  
Old 11-13-2013, 10:48 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 4,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baroness of Books View Post
Absolutely, and this seems the strongest case that Camilla will be Queen Consort. Why is she less deserving than her predecessors who carried the title just because a certain segment of the population can't accept her as the wife of a king? How many Queen Consorts throughout British history based on that would have then been denied the title because of their unpopularity? Quite a few, I'd wager. Camilla should not go down in history as being denied a rightful title because of such discrimination.
As we're going down this road again, I kind of find it ironic that should Parliament pass legislation to allow the title of Princess Consort for Camilla, she will have attained something that no royal spouse has. She would be Princess Camilla in her own right. No Queen Consort has ever attained that. To me, that would be a slap in the face to those that have gone before her.
__________________
“We live in a world where we have to hide to make love, while violence is practiced in broad daylight.”
~~~ John Lennon ~~~
Reply With Quote
  #2280  
Old 11-13-2013, 10:53 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 362
Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post

Personally, for reasons that have nothing to do with Camilla, I think the male and female consort should adopt equivalent titles. Philip is known as "Prince Consort" and Camilla and Catherine should be known as "Princess Consort" when the time comes.
Why not King Consort and Queen Consort? It is sexist to assume that King trumps Queen.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
british royal family, consort, spouse, styles and titles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children Aussie Princess Prince Harry and Prince William 1115 01-14-2015 03:50 PM
Questions About [non-British] Styles and Titles Lord Sosnowitz Royal Ceremony and Protocol 729 10-09-2014 04:24 PM
Diana's Styles and Titles florawindsor Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 573 11-14-2013 11:59 AM
Styles and Titles Nahla10 Ruling Family of Dubai 36 08-08-2013 12:05 PM
Abdication Beatrix and Inauguration WA: Titles, Names, Succession, Precedence Princess Robijn King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima and family 67 05-24-2013 03:14 PM




Popular Tags
belgium brussels carl philip charlene crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events duchess of cambridge fashion fashion poll grand duchess maria teresa hohenzollern infanta leonor infanta sofia jordan king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king philippe king willem-alexander letizia luxembourg maxima nobility norway royals official visit ottoman picture of the week poland president gauck president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince daniel prince floris prince henrik princess aimee princess alexia (2005 -) princess ariane princess astrid princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess haya princess madeleine princess mary princess mette-marit princess of asturias queen fabiola queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sonja royal royal fashion sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague visit wedding willem-alexander



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:54 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2015
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]