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  #2261  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
There is also some suggestion that the change will have to be ratified by all the Realms, too. I haven't thought much on this though. Bertie, what say you?
As she is the consort I don't think the realms have an issue. They were consulted in 1936 over the abdication but that was to do with the King himself not Wallis.

The real precedent is Anne Boleyn - definitely a figure in the divorce of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon - but she was crowned as Queen in a personal and separate ceremony.
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  #2262  
Old 11-13-2013, 12:48 AM
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The situation is known now and has been for years.
I expect that broad general policies have already been outlined and agreed upon by those most concerned.
I'm sure there will be no unseemly debate or appearance of dithering :)
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  #2263  
Old 11-13-2013, 01:16 AM
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Most people under the age of about 25 would have very little memory of Diana. As time goes on, this group will become larger and larger.

I think it was wise to use the Duchess of Cornwall title as it would have caused too much of a stir at the time to have a new Princess of Wales, but I don't think the Princess Consort title will come to pass. It won't matter any longer.
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  #2264  
Old 11-13-2013, 09:32 AM
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I agree with yvr girl to a point. As time goes on, Diana's memory will continue to fade into history. For most people life goes on but there will always be some people who will insist on reliving the past.

The more interesting question is whether William and Catherine will become the Prince and Princess of Wales. Obviously, people would begin to associate the title with Catherine rather than Diana, which is the way it should be.

Personally, for reasons that have nothing to do with Camilla, I think the male and female consort should adopt equivalent titles. Philip is known as "Prince Consort" and Camilla and Catherine should be known as "Princess Consort" when the time comes.
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  #2265  
Old 11-13-2013, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Baroness of Books View Post
Absolutely, and this seems the strongest case that Camilla will be Queen Consort. Why is she less deserving than her predecessors who carried the title just because a certain segment of the population can't accept her as the wife of a king? How many Queen Consorts throughout British history based on that would have then been denied the title because of their unpopularity? Quite a few, I'd wager. Camilla should not go down in history as being denied a rightful title because of such discrimination.
As we're going down this road again, I kind of find it ironic that should Parliament pass legislation to allow the title of Princess Consort for Camilla, she will have attained something that no royal spouse has. She would be Princess Camilla in her own right. No Queen Consort has ever attained that. To me, that would be a slap in the face to those that have gone before her.
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  #2266  
Old 11-13-2013, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post

Personally, for reasons that have nothing to do with Camilla, I think the male and female consort should adopt equivalent titles. Philip is known as "Prince Consort" and Camilla and Catherine should be known as "Princess Consort" when the time comes.
Why not King Consort and Queen Consort? It is sexist to assume that King trumps Queen.
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  #2267  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:07 AM
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Why not King Consort and Queen Consort? It is sexist to assume that King trumps Queen.
I always thought the title King Consort should be created nowadays. I never why everyone downgrades the woman's title why not upgrade the mens.
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  #2268  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:09 AM
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Why not King Consort and Queen Consort? It is sexist to assume that King trumps Queen.
Except that's the way it goes, always has done and if people want to continually view tradition as sexist then I'll continue to laugh. Doesn't harm anyone, nobody cares, people just use the word sexist to their advantage. Think Philip minds not being Prince Consort?

Catherine will be Queen Consort, Camilla will be Queen Consort and any future husband of a Queen Regnant depending upon the government and the husband might be a Prince Consort.
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  #2269  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:19 AM
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I always thought the title King Consort should be created nowadays. I never why everyone downgrades the woman's title why not upgrade the mens.
I think we should downgrade the title because the consort takes his or her title from the monarch. It makes more sense to me for the consort to take a lesser title. As Yvr Girl points out, the current disparity was created on the sexist assumption that a wife is subordinate to her husband. In a monarchy, everyone is subordinate to the monarch and that should be reflected in the spouse's title.
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  #2270  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
...I think the male and female consort should adopt equivalent titles...
The USA decided what they wanted to call their Head of State and (eventually) their spouse over 230 years ago. I'd like to stick with what we decided over a 1000 yrs ago, and I think the majority of the UK and other realms would agree.

I'm tired of hearing that change is necessary because something is allegedly sexist, religious (as opposed to non-secular) or traditional.
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  #2271  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:36 AM
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I always thought the title King Consort should be created nowadays. I never why everyone downgrades the woman's title why not upgrade the mens.
England had one king-consort. Not best memories. Next queen chose to be unmarried.
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  #2272  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:46 AM
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The USA decided what they wanted to call their Head of State and (eventually) their spouse over 230 years ago. I'd like to stick with what we decided over a 1000 yrs ago, and I think the majority of the UK and other realms would agree.

I'm tired of hearing that change is necessary because something is allegedly sexist, religious (as opposed to non-secular) or traditional.
I'm sorry, you're right. It is your monarchy. I'm just an interested observer. I used the word "we" in response to the post asking why the title should be downgraded.

That said, it is my opinion, that since a woman may now inherit the throne in her own right, the issue of parity between a male consort versus a female consort will come up--although hopefully not in my lifetime. You guys have plenty of time to figure it out.
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  #2273  
Old 11-13-2013, 11:47 AM
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I was just reading Robert Hardman's book about the Queen. There was a discussion about Prince Philip not being named Prince Consort. Other than the fact that Philip never asked for it, it was speculated by the author that the queen did not want the Duke of Edinburgh title to disappear from usage which it would if Philip was Prince Consort due to the happy memories of the time before the accession where she was the Duchess of Edinburgh and could be a naval wife in Malta. Just as in the future, William and Kate will look back fondly on their time as the Duke/Duchess of Cambridge even though it will not be their main title for most of their lives.

The royal titles do not belong to just one person. There were different Prince and Princess of Wales, Princess Royal, Dukes of York, Gloucester, Kent, etc. There is no reason for Charles to not name William as PoW.
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  #2274  
Old 11-13-2013, 01:51 PM
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I think we have to face that the title of HRH The Princess of Wales wasn't designed for Diana. It was a title she gained when marrying Charles and respectfully Camilla decided to not take on the title publically due to the past. I think Catherine will be proud to take on her role as HRH The Princess of Wales when the time comes and carry on carving out her role.
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  #2275  
Old 11-13-2013, 02:12 PM
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I agree
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  #2276  
Old 11-13-2013, 02:23 PM
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Words of wisdom Dman. Just hope it will be shared by many ...
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  #2277  
Old 11-13-2013, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by yvr girl View Post
Why not King Consort and Queen Consort? It is sexist to assume that King trumps Queen.
I think it has more to do with history. When people talked of "heirs" unfortunately they meant males. I think males getting "lesser" titles when married to a female heir was not make sure that no one assumed that the male was the monarch(which people in the old days and even some today would have assumed if the male was king).

Women inheriting based on birth not sex is a relatively new thing, maybe in the future males will be "king consorts" but I doubt it will happen soon.
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  #2278  
Old 11-13-2013, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
As we're going down this road again, I kind of find it ironic that should Parliament pass legislation to allow the title of Princess Consort for Camilla, she will have attained something that no royal spouse has. She would be Princess Camilla in her own right. No Queen Consort has ever attained that. To me, that would be a slap in the face to those that have gone before her.

Until fairly recently the Queens' Consort mainly were Princess own name in their own right - by birth.

The Queen Mother wasn't of course but before that we have to go back to the wives of Henry VIII before we have a Queen Consort who wasn't born a princess in her own right - Mary, Alexandra, Adelaide were all princesses before their marriages as were those before them.
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  #2279  
Old 11-13-2013, 03:53 PM
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Either way, precedent would be set for a situation that shouldn't arise anyway.
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  #2280  
Old 11-13-2013, 04:33 PM
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Why would Parliament need to do anything for Camilla to be known as 'Princess Consort'? When Charles becomes King Camilla will automatically become Queen in the eyes of the law. If she chooses to take a lower ranking title then why does Parliament need to get involved? They didn't need to when she decided to be known as Duchess of Cornwall.
Personally I think there won't be any legislation stripping Camilla of the title Queen, the only real possibilities in my mind are whether Camilla does become known as Princess Consort (Whilst legally, technically still Queen) as Clarence House have said since the marriage or whether that anouncement is quietly forgotten and she is known as Queen.
I can't see a Parliament stripping her of a title.
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