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  #2141  
Old 07-22-2013, 11:34 PM
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I'm sure this has been discussed/covered already, but is the baby technically/granted by courtesy the title HRH The Earl of Strathearn?
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  #2142  
Old 07-22-2013, 11:38 PM
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That's not the custom, and the only thing governing courtesy titles is custom, so no.
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  #2143  
Old 07-22-2013, 11:42 PM
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Gotchya! Thanks :) I suppose Prince William was never known as the Earl of Chester or Earl of Carrick... Silly me :)
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  #2144  
Old 07-22-2013, 11:50 PM
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Princes do not use courtesy titles. For example neither William or Richard of Gloucester were ever known as HRH Earl of Ulster, likewise Edward of Kent was never HRH Earl of St Andrews.
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  #2145  
Old 07-23-2013, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincePatrick View Post
I'm sure this has been discussed/covered already, but is the baby technically/granted by courtesy the title HRH The Earl of Strathearn?

As a Prince of the Realm he wouldn't use his father's second title. That is for non-royal heirs e.g. the current Duke of Kent, when heir to his father, was known as HRH Prince Edward of Kent and the Duke of Gloucester's older brother was HRH Prince William of Gloucester even though they were the heirs to their father's titles and the present Duke of Gloucester was also known as Prince Richard of Gloucester from birth and 2nd in line to the Dukedom, to heir apparent to the Dukedom only changing when he became the Duke and thus a peer of the realm. Their sons use the courtesy titles because they aren't Princes and James, Viscount Severn also uses the courtesy title because he isn't using the HRH Prince - had Edward allowed his son to use HRH Prince then young James wouldn't use Viscount Severn but would be HRH Prince James of Wessex.

This little one will be HRH Prince xxx of Cambridge for the rest of the Queen's reign when he will become HRH Prince xxxx of Cornwall and Cambridge. He will then become HRH Prince xxxx of Wales, if Charles creates William as Prince of Wales and then the little one will become a peer of the realm when William becomes King unless he is so old that he is given a title in his own right e.g. on marriage.

Let's get him a name though first as that will be interesting to see what they come up with.
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  #2146  
Old 07-23-2013, 10:58 AM
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When William becomes King, the baby is automatically the Duke of Cornwall. He doesn't have to be created a peer. That is assuming that William becomes King before the baby gets married. If not,then he would get a peerage like his dad did.

After becoming King, William would then have to name his son Prince of Wales.
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  #2147  
Old 07-23-2013, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
When William becomes King, the baby is automatically the Duke of Cornwall. He doesn't have to be created a peer. That is assuming that William becomes King before the baby gets married. If not,then he would get a peerage like his dad did.

After becoming King, William would then have to name his son Prince of Wales.
Duke of Cornwall is a peerage.
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  #2148  
Old 07-23-2013, 03:49 PM
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Correct, but he wouldn't have to be created Duke of Cornwall. It is an automatic title for the oldest son of the Monarch who is also the heir to the throne. Therefor, as soon as Prince William becomes King, the Prince will be the (new) Duke of Cornwall.
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  #2149  
Old 07-23-2013, 03:52 PM
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Correct, but he wouldn't have to be created Duke of Cornwall. It is an automatic title for the oldest son of the Monarch who is also the heir to the throne. Therefor, as soon as Prince William becomes King, the Prince will be the (new) Duke of Cornwall.
True. I just wanted to point it out that Duke of Cornwall is a peerage. I probably could have done it better - Baby Watch has screwed with my sleep schedule.
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  #2150  
Old 07-28-2013, 05:42 PM
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This might be an immensely stupid question, but does the title "Prince and Great Steward of Scotland" that Prince Charles hold as heir apparent, have a female counterpart? You know, if little Prince George had been a girl, would she one day have become Princess and Great Stewardess of Scotland or is that title reserved for the wife of a male heir apparent only?
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  #2151  
Old 07-29-2013, 10:46 AM
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The Scottish titles of the heir are for the eldest son and heir to The Sovereign, just like the English titles. There is no provision for a female heir holding those titles in her own right. The wife of the heir is styled "The Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Carrick, Baroness Renfrew and Princess of Scotland".

The Sovereign could create a female heir "Princess of Wales and Countess of Chester" in her own right as those titles are granted at-will.
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  #2152  
Old 08-05-2013, 12:40 AM
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Palace inquest after Prince William names Kate as his Princess-
Palace inquest after Prince William names Kate as his Princess | Royal | News | Daily Express
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  #2153  
Old 08-05-2013, 01:11 AM
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It seems that different 'spokemen' for BP said different things in 2011 e.g. the Express had an expert say:

“The Duchess of Cambridge would have been Her Royal Highness Princess William if she had not been given her new title, but it is not correct to say she is a Princess now.”

while the Guardian had the following statement:

Explaining the slightly confusing picture, a palace spokesman said: "She is not a princess in her own right. That title has not been conferred on her. Her title is that of duchess. So she is not Princess Catherine. And to call her Princess William of Wales is misleading."


Hence we have one spokesman saying 'it is not correct' and another saying 'to call her Princess William... is misleading'. Two different things:

1. - not a princess at all - so a morganatic marriage

2. she is a princess but has a higher title and so it would be misleading to use her lower title.
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  #2154  
Old 08-05-2013, 01:33 AM
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Is William still "of Wales"? I always thought that the "of wherever" was more of a courtesy title in relation to one's father's titles and that when one got his/her own titles they ceased to be "of whatever Dad is."
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  #2155  
Old 08-05-2013, 01:44 AM
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Simple soulution let all wives of Princes be called Princess and keep their own name for example, Princess Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge. It would so much easier.
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  #2156  
Old 08-05-2013, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Is William still "of Wales"? I always thought that the "of wherever" was more of a courtesy title in relation to one's father's titles and that when one got his/her own titles they ceased to be "of whatever Dad is."
Except William is still known as William Wales in the forces - how many names and titles can one have?!

I am shocked the palace need to double check on whether Catherine is a princess or not! If she is a Princess of the United Kingdom, then...erm...she is a princess, unless the term "princess" is no longer a title and is now simply a job description!
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Old 08-05-2013, 02:05 AM
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I am shocked the palace need to double check on whether Catherine is a princess or not!
They had to in 1923 as well. Lord Stamfordham (the King's private secretary) didn't think that Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon would become a princess on marriage.

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/brit..._144_22945.htm

" Though late in the day to do so, I write to ask whether it is correct to assume that by the fact of Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon marrying the Duke of York she becomes legally ipso facto "Her Royal Highness the Duchess of York" - also, that although her husband is a Prince she is not a Princess and could not become so except were the King to create her a Princess under an Order in Council ?"

The response was:

"In reply to your letter of yesterday as to the style, title and,signature of Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon after her marriage, I am desired by the Home Secretary to say that in his view there is no question that, under the settled general rule of a wife taking the status of her husband, Lady Elisabeth will, on her marriage, automatically become "Her Royal Highness", and will acquire the status of a Princess. She will not, of course, use that style any more than the Duke of York uses the style of Prince, and will become "Her Royal Highness The Duchess of York"."
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  #2158  
Old 08-05-2013, 02:27 AM
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I find this most amusing. If William can get it wrong, or at least be confused by it, no wonder the rest of us do.
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  #2159  
Old 08-05-2013, 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Is William still "of Wales"? I always thought that the "of wherever" was more of a courtesy title in relation to one's father's titles and that when one got his/her own titles they ceased to be "of whatever Dad is."

Correct. He ceased to be 'of Wales' when he was created The Duke of Cambridge.

He continued to use 'Wales' in the military for convenience, in the same way that many women continue to use their maiden names after they marriage e.g. Zara still uses Philips when competing.
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  #2160  
Old 08-05-2013, 05:47 AM
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The interesting thing is the use of words:

The Guardian says that last word was 'misleading' while The Royalist (which has everything else the same) has the last word as 'incorrect'. The Express says that the spokeperson said that 'it is not correct to say that she is a Princess now'.

The use of the words is significant.

Which BP spokeperson said anything? None is named. Exactly what did they say? Was it 'incorrect' or 'misleading' or something else? Are the reports interpreting that last word rather than reporting it verbatim? How many spokespeople were asked that day - is that why there are different words used?

If verbatim then there were at least two different versions put out or is it that The Guardian's report from 29th April, 2011 is the one that was stated at the time and that it has been changed/interpreted differently ever since? Other reports I have seen from 29th April use the word misleading - but are they just copying The Guardian or did they also get that work independently on the day?
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