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  #2141  
Old 07-23-2013, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Princess Robijn View Post


Correct, but he wouldn't have to be created Duke of Cornwall. It is an automatic title for the oldest son of the Monarch who is also the heir to the throne. Therefor, as soon as Prince William becomes King, the Prince will be the (new) Duke of Cornwall.
True. I just wanted to point it out that Duke of Cornwall is a peerage. I probably could have done it better - Baby Watch has screwed with my sleep schedule.
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  #2142  
Old 07-28-2013, 05:42 PM
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This might be an immensely stupid question, but does the title "Prince and Great Steward of Scotland" that Prince Charles hold as heir apparent, have a female counterpart? You know, if little Prince George had been a girl, would she one day have become Princess and Great Stewardess of Scotland or is that title reserved for the wife of a male heir apparent only?
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  #2143  
Old 07-29-2013, 10:46 AM
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The Scottish titles of the heir are for the eldest son and heir to The Sovereign, just like the English titles. There is no provision for a female heir holding those titles in her own right. The wife of the heir is styled "The Duchess of Rothesay, Countess of Carrick, Baroness Renfrew and Princess of Scotland".

The Sovereign could create a female heir "Princess of Wales and Countess of Chester" in her own right as those titles are granted at-will.
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  #2144  
Old 08-05-2013, 12:40 AM
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Palace inquest after Prince William names Kate as his Princess-
Palace inquest after Prince William names Kate as his Princess | Royal | News | Daily Express
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  #2145  
Old 08-05-2013, 01:11 AM
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It seems that different 'spokemen' for BP said different things in 2011 e.g. the Express had an expert say:

“The Duchess of Cambridge would have been Her Royal Highness Princess William if she had not been given her new title, but it is not correct to say she is a Princess now.”

while the Guardian had the following statement:

Explaining the slightly confusing picture, a palace spokesman said: "She is not a princess in her own right. That title has not been conferred on her. Her title is that of duchess. So she is not Princess Catherine. And to call her Princess William of Wales is misleading."


Hence we have one spokesman saying 'it is not correct' and another saying 'to call her Princess William... is misleading'. Two different things:

1. - not a princess at all - so a morganatic marriage

2. she is a princess but has a higher title and so it would be misleading to use her lower title.
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  #2146  
Old 08-05-2013, 01:33 AM
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Is William still "of Wales"? I always thought that the "of wherever" was more of a courtesy title in relation to one's father's titles and that when one got his/her own titles they ceased to be "of whatever Dad is."
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  #2147  
Old 08-05-2013, 01:44 AM
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Simple soulution let all wives of Princes be called Princess and keep their own name for example, Princess Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge. It would so much easier.
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  #2148  
Old 08-05-2013, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Is William still "of Wales"? I always thought that the "of wherever" was more of a courtesy title in relation to one's father's titles and that when one got his/her own titles they ceased to be "of whatever Dad is."
Except William is still known as William Wales in the forces - how many names and titles can one have?!

I am shocked the palace need to double check on whether Catherine is a princess or not! If she is a Princess of the United Kingdom, then...erm...she is a princess, unless the term "princess" is no longer a title and is now simply a job description!
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  #2149  
Old 08-05-2013, 02:05 AM
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I am shocked the palace need to double check on whether Catherine is a princess or not!
They had to in 1923 as well. Lord Stamfordham (the King's private secretary) didn't think that Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon would become a princess on marriage.

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/brit..._144_22945.htm

" Though late in the day to do so, I write to ask whether it is correct to assume that by the fact of Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon marrying the Duke of York she becomes legally ipso facto "Her Royal Highness the Duchess of York" - also, that although her husband is a Prince she is not a Princess and could not become so except were the King to create her a Princess under an Order in Council ?"

The response was:

"In reply to your letter of yesterday as to the style, title and,signature of Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon after her marriage, I am desired by the Home Secretary to say that in his view there is no question that, under the settled general rule of a wife taking the status of her husband, Lady Elisabeth will, on her marriage, automatically become "Her Royal Highness", and will acquire the status of a Princess. She will not, of course, use that style any more than the Duke of York uses the style of Prince, and will become "Her Royal Highness The Duchess of York"."
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  #2150  
Old 08-05-2013, 02:27 AM
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I find this most amusing. If William can get it wrong, or at least be confused by it, no wonder the rest of us do.
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  #2151  
Old 08-05-2013, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Is William still "of Wales"? I always thought that the "of wherever" was more of a courtesy title in relation to one's father's titles and that when one got his/her own titles they ceased to be "of whatever Dad is."

Correct. He ceased to be 'of Wales' when he was created The Duke of Cambridge.

He continued to use 'Wales' in the military for convenience, in the same way that many women continue to use their maiden names after they marriage e.g. Zara still uses Philips when competing.
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  #2152  
Old 08-05-2013, 05:47 AM
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The interesting thing is the use of words:

The Guardian says that last word was 'misleading' while The Royalist (which has everything else the same) has the last word as 'incorrect'. The Express says that the spokeperson said that 'it is not correct to say that she is a Princess now'.

The use of the words is significant.

Which BP spokeperson said anything? None is named. Exactly what did they say? Was it 'incorrect' or 'misleading' or something else? Are the reports interpreting that last word rather than reporting it verbatim? How many spokespeople were asked that day - is that why there are different words used?

If verbatim then there were at least two different versions put out or is it that The Guardian's report from 29th April, 2011 is the one that was stated at the time and that it has been changed/interpreted differently ever since? Other reports I have seen from 29th April use the word misleading - but are they just copying The Guardian or did they also get that work independently on the day?
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  #2153  
Old 08-05-2013, 06:06 AM
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Kate Middleton listed as a Princess on Prince George's birth certificate - hellomagazine.com
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  #2154  
Old 08-05-2013, 06:15 AM
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Yes Marie-Christine is a Princess - Princess Michael of Kent.

The interesting one is The Duchess of Gloucester - after she married she was known officially as HRH Princess Richard of Gloucester but now, of course, is The Duchess of Gloucester.

If Kate isn't a princess then Brigitte actually stopped being a Princess when she became a Duchess.
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  #2155  
Old 08-05-2013, 08:24 AM
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Peter Hunt ‏@BBCPeterHunt 1h
What's in a name? Asked in 2011 by the BBC can't we just call William and Kate prince and princess, their spokesman, Paddy Harverson...(1/2)

Peter Hunt ‏@BBCPeterHunt 1h
that's absolutely natural, no one's going to have any argument with that... they are happy (with Duke/Duchess title), we are happy..

Peter Hunt ‏@BBCPeterHunt 1h
".., but if the public want to call them Prince William and Princess Catherine that's fine." (Paddy Harverson 2011)
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  #2156  
Old 08-05-2013, 08:37 AM
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So, if you are born a prince, you are always a prince even upon being given a ducal title upon marriage? And when you get a ducal title upon marriage you are still a prince but properly a duke with the rank of prince or is that just your wife who becomes a duchess on marrying with the rank of princess?

In other words the Duke of Gloucester is still a prince with a ducal title of the rank of a prince, but the Duchess of Gloucester is simply a duchess with the rank of princess?
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  #2157  
Old 08-05-2013, 08:39 AM
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Oh, and the Earl of Wessex is an earl with the rank of prince - is that correct?
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  #2158  
Old 08-05-2013, 09:02 AM
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That's right, despite William's dukedom, he's still a prince because he was born a prince. Catherine's a princess by marriage, although she holds her husbands official title, HRH The Duchess of Cambridge.

The Duchess of Gloucester is also a Princess by marriage but goes by her official title, HRH The Duchess of Gloucester. Same goes for Camilla and Sophie.
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  #2159  
Old 08-05-2013, 10:46 AM
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In one of the many books I have on Diana in my collection, there's one w/a clear picture of the page of her passport where occupation can be seen as "Princess of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland". The only reason there's any fuss over this w/Kate is thanks to the Palace not making this clearer during the lead up to the Wedding and now look at what's happening.

Well...That and the fact that unlike other Monarchies when a woman enters the Family on marriage and is made a Princess in her own right, that doesn't happen w/the Windsors. Always wondered when this outdated custom/protocol/whatever would end up making a mess for them and lo and behold....
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  #2160  
Old 08-05-2013, 11:00 AM
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She is a Princess-but she is not Princess Catherine.I think the Palace wanted to avoid Princess Catherine (maybe because of the Duchess of Cornwall not using her Princess title) and as Tom Sykes has suggested in the Daily Beast were therefore keen to push the " duchess " title.But of course the press have failed to use it ,have continued to call her Kate Middleton...would have been better if they had gone Princess Kate in my opinion.

Perhaps they now will? ( the press I mean)
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