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  #2001  
Old 03-21-2013, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire View Post
And about the Duchy of Conrwall? They'll change the law so that Duchy can be passed to eldest child and heir?
It would require an Act of Parliament and presents a tricky situation since doing so would imply equal rights of inheritance for all Peerages. I think that will not happen anytime soon.
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  #2002  
Old 03-21-2013, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The LPs that created the Duchy in the middle ages does have both these criteria specified.

That is why to change who could hold the title, and who would be able to have the income from the Duchy, would take an Act of Parliament.
Correct. However, as was done with The Princess Elizabeth, the income from the Duchy can be used to support an heir to the throne who is not the current Duke with consent from the Government.

The Duchy's income accrues automatically to The Sovereign if there is no current Duke.
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  #2003  
Old 03-21-2013, 02:24 PM
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That will be done anyways, and the non-Duke heir(ess) can even run the estate in their own way de facto, but of course in the name of monarch..
But I feel some reform should be made in this also to complete the "progressive" picture being painted all over the monarchy..
I guess the government has not done its homework completely regarding the background, "non-sensational-headline" stuff..But if they didnt bother about it then The Queen (or her reps, whoever) could have pointed out about this, and got it done along with the main Act..
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  #2004  
Old 03-21-2013, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by branchg View Post
Correct. However, as was done with The Princess Elizabeth, the income from the Duchy can be used to support an heir to the throne who is not the current Duke with consent from the Government.
The recent Sovereign Grant Act makes this automatic. (Strictly-speaking, the income from the Duchy still goes to the monarch, the Sovereign Grant is reduced by the same amount, and the Treasury pays an amount equal to the income from the Duchy to the heir.)
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  #2005  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:06 PM
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How do you address a Princess that marries the younger son of a Duke or Earl?

How do you address a Princess that marries the younger son of a Duke or Earl?

This is for an essay I'm doing about styles and forms of address. I'm not aware of any past real examples, but it could happen today. All the "characters" are of course fictitious and are just to exemplify the situation.

Let's imagine Her Royal Highness Princess Ilona of Hungary. She marries Lord Waltheof Dunbar, the younger son of the Duke of Northumberland. How would she be styled? HRH Princess Ilona, Lady Waltheof Dunbar? HRH Lady Dunbar? HRH Lady Ilona Dunbar?

Or let's imagine that she marries The Honourable Hector of Strathclyde, the younger son of the Earl of Clydesdale. Would she become HRH Princess Ilona, The Hon Hector of Strathclyde? HRH The Hon Ilona of Strathclyde? Help! There are so many possibilities available :(

There's plenty of information online about sons/daughters of peers marrying sons/daughters of commoners and/or other peers, but what about a princess?
Thanks to anybody who can shed a light on the matter!
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  #2006  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:17 PM
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Using a British example you might want to lookup HRH Princess Alexandra of Kent who married Hon Angus Ogilvy, younger son of the Earl of Airlie. No matter who she married she remained a HRH and Princess.

HRH Princess Alexandra of Kent
HRH Princess Alexandra, Hon Mrs Angus Ogilvy
HRH Princess Alexandra, Hon Lady Ogilvy
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  #2007  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Daphoenyx View Post
How do you address a Princess that marries the younger son of a Duke or Earl?
If she marries the younger son of a Duke:

She'll be Her Royal Highness Princess X, Lady Y.

If she marries the younger son of an Earl:

She'll be Her Royal Highness Princess X, the Honorable Mrs. Y.
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  #2008  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:22 PM
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Philip's Princely status

Aside from his Greek titles, Prince Philip is a Prince of the United Kingdom, as he is married to the Queen.

If the Queen had ever divorced Philip, would he have remained a Prince in his own right?

Highly unlikely, I know, but likewise, if Philip had ever re-married after either divorce or being widowed, would his new wife have become a Princess?
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  #2009  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:31 PM
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Well, he's not a Prince of Greece and Denmark since 18 March 1947.

If he divorces the Queen, it would be required Letters of Patent stating what will be his titles (if any). Otherwise, he will stay as HRH the Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh.

If a widowed Duke of Edinburgh ever remarries, his wife will became HRH the Princess Philip, Duchess of Edinburgh, unless new Letters of Patent are passed saying otherwise.
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  #2010  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:31 PM
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Given that his peerages (1947) and princely title (1957) were created by Letters Patent so it would have taken an Act of Parliament to remove them, so in the event of divorce and remarriage I believe he would have continued to be HRH The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh and his new wife would have become HRH The Duchess of Edinburgh although I suppose it would have been possible to remove the HRH since that is a style and not a title and the Duchess of Windsor would be a sort of precedent for not having HRH and we know the Queen removed the HRH from Diana and Sarah.
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  #2011  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:40 PM
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Also:

If she marries someone who is knighted, she becomes Her Royal Highness Princess X, Lady Y.

If she marries the younger son of a marquess her style is the same as that of if she married the younger son of a duke. Similarly, the styling for marrying a younger son of an Earl is the same for marrying the younger son of a viscount or baron.

If she marries someone completely without title, she becomes Her Royal Highness Princess X, Mrs. y.
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  #2012  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by royal-blue View Post
Aside from his Greek titles, Prince Philip is a Prince of the United Kingdom, as he is married to the Queen.

If the Queen had ever divorced Philip, would he have remained a Prince in his own right?

Highly unlikely, I know, but likewise, if Philip had ever re-married after either divorce or being widowed, would his new wife have become a Princess?
Prince Philip is not a prince simply because he marrie the Queen. In Britain men do not take on the titles of their spouses. After he married her (long after) he was created a Prince of the United Kingdom of his own right. Divorcing the Queen would not change that unless she issued LPs striping him of his princely title.
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  #2013  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:51 PM
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This is an interesting idea. Would any children from this hypothetical second marriage have been prince/sses?

Obviously, Philip is not the son of a monarch, but when Charles and Anne were born they became prince and princess despite no being male-line grandchildren of a reigning monarch.
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  #2014  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by royal-blue View Post
This is an interesting idea. Would any children from this hypothetical second marriage have been prince/sses?

Obviously, Philip is not the son of a monarch, but when Charles and Anne were born they became prince and princess despite no being male-line grandchildren of a reigning monarch.
No, they wouldn't be Prince or Princesses.

Prince Charles and Princess Anne were only a Prince and a Princess because King George VI passed Letters of Patent stating that any children born to Princess Elizabeth would be Prince or Princess of the United Kingdom.
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  #2015  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by royal-blue View Post
This is an interesting idea. Would any children from this hypothetical second marriage have been prince/sses?

Obviously, Philip is not the son of a monarch, but when Charles and Anne were born they became prince and princess despite no being male-line grandchildren of a reigning monarch.
Prince Philip's children from another marriage would not be prince(sse)s, they would be styled the children of a Duke.

Charles and Anne were given their titles at birth because of LPs issued by George V on 22 October 1948 granting the children of the then Princess Elizabeth the title of prince(ss). This is similar to the LPs that the Queen herself issued this past December regarding the children of Prince William.
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  #2016  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:58 PM
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It seems Philip became HRH upon marriage and a Prince later on so as was mentioned, he would probably lose the HRH upon divorce but remain a Prince. I assume he would remain HRH upon widowhood and remarriage, unless the new monarch revoked it.
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  #2017  
Old 03-29-2013, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by royal-blue View Post
It seems Philip became HRH upon marriage and a Prince later on so as was mentioned, he would probably lose the HRH upon divorce but remain a Prince. I assume he would remain HRH upon widowhood and remarriage, unless the new monarch revoked it.
All depends of Letters of Patent. Without them, he would remain HRH the Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh.
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  #2018  
Old 03-29-2013, 09:05 PM
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Since he is such an advanced age we probably will never have to imagine anything of the sort.
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  #2019  
Old 03-29-2013, 09:06 PM
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Since he is such an advanced age we probably will never have to imagine anything of the sort.
Say this to the Duchess of Alba.
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  #2020  
Old 03-29-2013, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire View Post
Well, he's not a Prince of Greece and Denmark since 18 March 1947.
That issue is debateable and has been discussed in detail here:
Prince Philip's Former Greek Citizenship and Greek and Danish Titles

Quote:
If he divorces the Queen, it would be required Letters of Patent stating what will be his titles (if any). Otherwise, he will stay as HRH the Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh.
It would take legislation to change the 1957 and 1947 LPs that created him DoE and Prince of the UK - not LPs.

Quote:
If a widowed Duke of Edinburgh ever remarries, his wife will became HRH the Princess Philip, Duchess of Edinburgh, unless new Letters of Patent are passed saying otherwise.
Correct - if Charles decided that his step-mother wasn't to share his father's titles and styles he could limit the LPs to apply to Philip only and not to a second wife or any subsequent children - I doubt that he would do so, or that it would even be necessary.
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