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  #1981  
Old 03-20-2013, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
Not exactly true, I am afraid. If, for instance, Prince Charles were to predecease the Queen, her eldest living son would be Prince Andrew. However, Prince William - and not Andrew - would be the heir apparent.
thanks
it means than the duchy law does have two criteria
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  #1982  
Old 03-20-2013, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
thanks
it means than the duchy law does have two criteria
As explained before yes. You have to be heir apparent and eldest son to the current Monarch. Several posters said that.
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  #1983  
Old 03-20-2013, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
As explained before yes. You have to be heir apparent and eldest son to the current Monarch. Several posters said that.
But only Artemisia proved it
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  #1984  
Old 03-20-2013, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
But only Artemisia proved this
Actually I did earlier in another post 1926;

Quote:
For instance if Charles dies, William will not be Duke of Cornwall despite being the heir, he is not the eldest son of the reigning Monarch.
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  #1985  
Old 03-20-2013, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
I see a problem here:

The eldest living son of the monarch was/is the heir apparent. Always.
So, does the duchy law have the first criteria? Or, is this only have in mind?

The LPs that created the Duchy in the middle ages does have both these criteria specified.

That is why to change who could hold the title, and who would be able to have the income from the Duchy, would take an Act of Parliament.
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  #1986  
Old 03-20-2013, 06:18 PM
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Lumutqueen; Wiki points out that they debated making her Princess of Wales in her own right. I'm suggesting that the female heir apparent be Prince of Wales, much like the female monarch is Duke of Lancaster.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
But only Artemisia proved it
Actually, no. A few of us provided examples (I specifically provided the example of George II and his grandson and heir apparent George III). You simply chose to ignore us until Artemisia proved it for you.
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  #1987  
Old 03-20-2013, 06:28 PM
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Roslyn: Wow - that letter is just WOW!

What an opportunity to asses one's writing style, grasp of reality and political deftness. This is a treasure....

"remove misunderstanding and heartburning hereafter" or maybe, not!
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  #1988  
Old 03-20-2013, 06:51 PM
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There have been 22 Princes of Wales and 23 Dukes of Cornwall. 19 have held both titles. I have the full lists in a comparison table and would be prepared to type it in here but not until the weekend when I have the time if there is sufficient interest.
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  #1989  
Old 03-20-2013, 07:22 PM
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Iluvbertie - yes please - we would love to see the list!
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  #1990  
Old 03-20-2013, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Actually, no. A few of us provided examples (I specifically provided the example of George II and his grandson and heir apparent George III). You simply chose to ignore us until Artemisia proved it for you.
Thank you for answer also.
I asked about a son, you wrote about a grandson, Artemisia answered about a son. That's all.
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  #1991  
Old 03-20-2013, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
Thank you for answer also.
I asked about a son, you wrote about a grandson, Artemisia answered about a son. That's all.
Except you said, and I quote, "the eldest living son of the monarch, if he exists, IS always the heir apparent..."

The example that I provided was actually essentially identical to the one Artemisia provided, with the difference that my example happened and Artemisia's was a hypothetical.

George II had 2 sons who survived into adulthood. Following the death of his elder son, his son's son became his heir. His remaining son (thenceforth his eldest living son) was not the heir apparent. Just the same as if Charles died before HM, making Andrew the eldest living son but William the heir apparent.
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  #1992  
Old 03-20-2013, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
But only Artemisia proved it
I also proved that your theory was wrong when I wrote this:

"If the eldest son renounce his succession rights, or marry a Catholic? He'll cease to be the heir.

The two criterias are only there to cover all the possible scenarios."

And, of course, the eldest son can die leaving a grandson (the George III and Prince William's examples), meaning that the Sovereign's eldest surviving son isn't also the heir to the Throne.
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  #1993  
Old 03-21-2013, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire View Post
And about the Duchy of Conrwall? They'll change the law so that Duchy can be passed to eldest child and heir?
It would require an Act of Parliament and presents a tricky situation since doing so would imply equal rights of inheritance for all Peerages. I think that will not happen anytime soon.
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  #1994  
Old 03-21-2013, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The LPs that created the Duchy in the middle ages does have both these criteria specified.

That is why to change who could hold the title, and who would be able to have the income from the Duchy, would take an Act of Parliament.
Correct. However, as was done with The Princess Elizabeth, the income from the Duchy can be used to support an heir to the throne who is not the current Duke with consent from the Government.

The Duchy's income accrues automatically to The Sovereign if there is no current Duke.
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  #1995  
Old 03-21-2013, 02:24 PM
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That will be done anyways, and the non-Duke heir(ess) can even run the estate in their own way de facto, but of course in the name of monarch..
But I feel some reform should be made in this also to complete the "progressive" picture being painted all over the monarchy..
I guess the government has not done its homework completely regarding the background, "non-sensational-headline" stuff..But if they didnt bother about it then The Queen (or her reps, whoever) could have pointed out about this, and got it done along with the main Act..
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  #1996  
Old 03-21-2013, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by branchg View Post
Correct. However, as was done with The Princess Elizabeth, the income from the Duchy can be used to support an heir to the throne who is not the current Duke with consent from the Government.
The recent Sovereign Grant Act makes this automatic. (Strictly-speaking, the income from the Duchy still goes to the monarch, the Sovereign Grant is reduced by the same amount, and the Treasury pays an amount equal to the income from the Duchy to the heir.)
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  #1997  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:06 PM
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How do you address a Princess that marries the younger son of a Duke or Earl?

How do you address a Princess that marries the younger son of a Duke or Earl?

This is for an essay I'm doing about styles and forms of address. I'm not aware of any past real examples, but it could happen today. All the "characters" are of course fictitious and are just to exemplify the situation.

Let's imagine Her Royal Highness Princess Ilona of Hungary. She marries Lord Waltheof Dunbar, the younger son of the Duke of Northumberland. How would she be styled? HRH Princess Ilona, Lady Waltheof Dunbar? HRH Lady Dunbar? HRH Lady Ilona Dunbar?

Or let's imagine that she marries The Honourable Hector of Strathclyde, the younger son of the Earl of Clydesdale. Would she become HRH Princess Ilona, The Hon Hector of Strathclyde? HRH The Hon Ilona of Strathclyde? Help! There are so many possibilities available :(

There's plenty of information online about sons/daughters of peers marrying sons/daughters of commoners and/or other peers, but what about a princess?
Thanks to anybody who can shed a light on the matter!
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  #1998  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:17 PM
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Using a British example you might want to lookup HRH Princess Alexandra of Kent who married Hon Angus Ogilvy, younger son of the Earl of Airlie. No matter who she married she remained a HRH and Princess.

HRH Princess Alexandra of Kent
HRH Princess Alexandra, Hon Mrs Angus Ogilvy
HRH Princess Alexandra, Hon Lady Ogilvy
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  #1999  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daphoenyx View Post
How do you address a Princess that marries the younger son of a Duke or Earl?
If she marries the younger son of a Duke:

She'll be Her Royal Highness Princess X, Lady Y.

If she marries the younger son of an Earl:

She'll be Her Royal Highness Princess X, the Honorable Mrs. Y.
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  #2000  
Old 03-29-2013, 08:22 PM
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Philip's Princely status

Aside from his Greek titles, Prince Philip is a Prince of the United Kingdom, as he is married to the Queen.

If the Queen had ever divorced Philip, would he have remained a Prince in his own right?

Highly unlikely, I know, but likewise, if Philip had ever re-married after either divorce or being widowed, would his new wife have become a Princess?
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