Succession to the Crown Act 2013, Part 1: 2011 - Sep 2022


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Let me ask this, why is it soooo important that we go from the first born male Windsor, to the first born Windsor? Our Head of State is still going to be from one family.
Is this supposed to modernise the monarchy? Reflect modern day Britain, because if its being done for that reason, I can think of at least a dozen modernisations within the BRF that need to be address.
Nick Clegg and political correctness run a muck.
 
As some sisters were born before their brothers (just as an example; Lady Louise was born before her brother James) will the elder sisters be able to come before their brothers in the line of succession after the act has officially been declared?

I doubt it, it would change the whole line of succession (the Princess Royal would move up and be 4th in line to the throne etc.). I think if the act gets declared, it will be official from William and Harry's children and onwards.

Let me ask this, why is it soooo important that we go from the first born male Windsor, to the first born Windsor? Our Head of State is still going to be from one family.
Is this supposed to modernise the monarchy? Reflect modern day Britain, because if its being done for that reason, I can think of at least a dozen modernisations within the BRF that need to be address.
Nick Clegg and political correctness run a muck.

What is it that makes it so wrong that females would be able to inherit the throne? It is a fairly narrow-minded and old-fashioned belief that only males are fit to run a country, HM is a perfect example of how women can do it just as good.
 
Last edited:
As some sisters were born before their brothers (just as an example; Lady Louise was born before her brother James) will the elder sisters be able to come before their brothers in the line of succession after the act has officially been declared?
The proposed changes will concern only the descendants of the current Prince of Wales - or, in other words, William and Harry's children.

That means that the position of everyone else in the Line of Succession will remain unchanged, meaning Princess Anne will still come after her brothers and their descendants, and Viscount Severn will still be ahead of his elder sister.
 
I doubt it, it would change the whole line of succession (the Princess Royal would move up and be 4th in line to the throne etc.). I think if the act gets declared, it will be official from William and Harry's children and onwards.



What is it that makes it so wrong that females would be able to inherit the throne? It is a fairly narrow-minded and old-fashioned belief that only males are fit to run a country, HM is a perfect example of how women can do it just as good.


Old-fashioned belief?? A thousand year old institution is accused of being old-fashioned.

Time for a cup of tea, methinks.

If I marry Lady so and so, I don't become Lord so and so. Where are the bunny huggers and PC brigade over this? No shouting from the roof tops over the equality for men. Equal primogeniture for the BRF is just a PC move to show how modern a nation Britain is. Can you imagine if we have salic law? The marxiods would be in revolt.
Leave tradition alone or soon you will have no traditions at all.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I would like them to go to equal succession rights to all titles. I think it is absolutely wrong that Beatrice can't inherit her father's title but could become Queen - seems stupid to me.

Of course the fact that the legislation is only to apply to the descendents of Charles but not to the descendents of any of the other children of The Queen or elsewhere will be silly as well e.g. William and Harry don't have children and Beatrice has a girl before a boy - that boy will still be ahead of his sister in the line of succession so back to square one.
 
Old-fashioned belief?? A thousand year old institution is being accused of being old-fashioned.

Time for a cup of tea, methinks.

Yes, I do think it is old-fashioned to believe that women aren't "fit enough" to run a country especially when you look at a monarch like HM.
But ah, maybe you're right Duke of Earl, maybe us women are too hysterical and weak to be head-of-states. Besides, women all over the world have been over-celebrated for too long. We are a society that constantly celebrates no one but women and it must stop!
 
I just hope William and Catherine have 2 boys and no daughters and the whole issue dies on the political cutting room table.
 
Perhaps they could use the format of "the law will apply to children born after xxx date", say 1st of January 1975.
This way only Louisa and James would switch places, but all the persons close to the Throne would be included. Such as the York-princesses.
 
Yes, I do think it is old-fashioned to believe that women aren't "fit enough" to run a country especially when you look at a monarch like HM.
But ah, maybe you're right Duke of Earl, maybe us women are too hysterical and weak to be head-of-states. Besides, women all over the world have been over-celebrated for too long. We are a society that constantly celebrates no one but women and it must stop!

What I don't understand is why it is so important to you? Its still the Windsor family, whether first born male or equal primogeniture, the head of State still comes from a tiny gene pool and maybe I'm missing something but the only thing equal primogeniture makes 'equal' are the succession rights for the children of the House of Windsor.
 
The problem for me here is the use of the phrase " to reflect modern Britain". It's a useless phrase and to me is meaningless in the sense that "modern" is continual and perpetual. Queen Victoria reigned "in modern Britain" and so did King Henry VIII! What gives us the right to put a monopoly on the word "modern"??
I would rather the change to equal primogeniture were based solely on the fact that:

"the system of primogeniture requires the eldest child of a family to inherit something and as such that child should be allowed to do so whether they be male or female"

I would go further and say that I think it should be entirely a matter for the Royal Family to decide who will inherit the title.....not necessarily an in-house vote, but in the sense that, for instance, William and Catherine should be allowed to declare their eldest child as being their heir whether male or female.

It is to me rather perverse that politicians wish to change traditional institutions when they are themselves are a traditional, unchanging and rather old-fashioned institution.......they always have been and regretably always will be a feckless, unreliable bunch of good-for-nothings, useless at running a bath let alone a country and completely out of touch with what modern British folk want!
 
Jacknch: That's a nicely reasoned post. It's pleasing to read good argument, well-articulated, every now and then. Thanks. Then again, I doubt that much common sense could ever make it through the political change process.
 
Last edited:
Yes, I do think it is old-fashioned to believe that women aren't "fit enough" to run a country especially when you look at a monarch like HM.
No one has said that women aren't fit enough to run a country, or that QEII hasn't been a good monarch. But a lot of people do feel uneasy about old traditions changing, especially when it comes to monarchy, because that's all about traditions anyway.
 
IMO the succession needs to be changed because the British monarchy is part of the British government, and there is no room, (or should be no room), for officially sanctioned sexism in the government of a country which claims to place paramount importance on the equality of all its citizens.

Just because the monarchy is old and inherently unfair doesn't mean it's untouchable. And just because something can't be made entirely fair doesn't mean it's not worth the effort to make it more fair. If the roof in my 100 year old house starts to leak in four places and I can only fix three of the leaks, then I'm going to go ahead and fix those three, not sit around and wait for the whole thing to tumble down on top of me. The British monarchy has been fixing various leaks in the royal roof for hundreds of years now and it has survived because of, not in spite of, this willingness to bring itself more in line with British society as a whole.
 
Well Prince Harry should marry a gay visible minority because that would bring the monarchy more in line with British society as a whole. Actually they should just live together because marriage in Britain is at an all time low.

Welcome to modern Britain...
 
Well Prince Harry should marry a gay visible minority because that would bring the monarchy more in line with British society as a whole. Actually they should just live together because marriage in Britain is at an all time low.

Welcome to modern Britain...

Reminds me of the episode of Yes Minister when Jim Hacker was trying to get more women in the top echelons of the Civil Service. All the top secrataries (Humpries rank) were sitting round a table discussing it when one said that you couldn't het a more diverse bunch then them, a real cross section of British Society. They were all white men in their 50's and 60's with upper class accents and an Oxford educatuion.
 
Quite a lot of countries in Europe already have the act...

Does anyone know if any other countries outside of Europe have the act, also?
 
Well, it has been said amongst royal historians that women have been more successful on the British throne than the men.

I think it just all down to equality. Since this change is now in affect for the desendents of The Prince of Wales, if the Cambridges produce a daughter first, she will then be the future Queen. If they produce a son first, he will become the future King. It's all pretty simple and this change have the backing of the main woman that has reigned for nearly 61 years, Elizabeth The Second.

This change is now already in affect. Now it's down to William & Catherine from here. To me it's not just about a 'modern world' but I think it's great to allow women to have an equal shot. Imagine how happy William & Catherine probably are now, their potential baby girl can be Queen someday. It's a beautiful thing, I think.
 
:previous: William and Catherine seem like pretty traditional people, how do we know they support this change. As someone commented earlier, why not just let the Cambridges decide who they want as heir
 
I just think if The Queen is showing her support of this change, then William & Catherine most likely supporting this change as well. I think right now though, the Cambridges are just focusing on producing the children at this point.
 
Well, it has been said amongst royal historians that women have been more successful on the British throne than the men.

I think it just all down to equality. Since this change is now in affect for the desendents of The Prince of Wales, if the Cambridges produce a daughter first, she will then be the future Queen. If they produce a son first, he will become the future King. It's all pretty simple and this change have the backing of the main woman that has reigned for nearly 61 years, Elizabeth The Second.

This change is now already in affect. Now it's down to William & Catherine from here. To me it's not just about a 'modern world' but I think it's great to allow women to have an equal shot. Imagine how happy William & Catherine probably are now, their potential baby girl can be Queen someday. It's a beautiful thing, I think.


When did the law pass the various governments of the 16 realms? Until all 16 realms have agreed to the change then this isn't in effect.
 
When did the law pass the various governments of the 16 realms? Until all 16 realms have agreed to the change then this isn't in effect.

Correct. It hasn't passed anywhere yet. Has the commission, headed by NZ, even finished its discussions yet? Has anyone seen a final proposal or draft legislation? I don't think this is exactly being fast tracked by anyone. Governments have more pressing issues to deal with at the moment. The changes likely will happen someday but they could equally well linger in legislative limbo for quite some time before all the governments act on it.
 
MP Nick Clegg has comfirmed that this affect is already in place. Of course the law still have to be passed but he has said the affect is now in place. If the Cambridges had a baby girl tomorrow, she will be the future Queen.

If Kate has a baby girl tomorrow she will be Queen: Nick Clegg promises Duchess of Cambridge's daughter could succeed to the throne:
Kate Middleton: Nick Clegg promises Duchess of Cambridge's daughter could succeed to the throne | Mail Online

Here's the article where MP Nick Clegg is confirming the change.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
:previous:

That's not a confirmation, that's just a "promise" and outline of the plans.
Until the changes are unanimously and officially adopted by all countries of the Realm, they will have no legal power.

If William and Catherine have a daughter tomorrow, she will be Heiress Presumptive, not Heiress Apparent. Only if and when the proposed changes are passed as laws in the Realms (and, if it happens after the girl is born, they'll need to have retroactive effect) will she be Heiress Apparent to the Throne even if younger brothers are born.
 
If William & Harry were to die w/o an heir and the Queen & Charles die. Shouldn't we have a Queen Anne rather than a King Andrew?
 
Well, I hope the law is changed and adopted by the realms. If their first born is a girl, at least she will have an equal shot at the throne.

As I said before, I think the royal couple is more focused on getting the children here first though.

No doubt Anne would make a fine Queen but I think Andrew would succeed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If Kate has a baby girl tomorrow she will be Queen: Nick Clegg promises Duchess of Cambridge's daughter could succeed to the throne:
Kate Middleton: Nick Clegg promises Duchess of Cambridge's daughter could succeed to the throne | Mail Online

Here's the article where MP Nick Clegg is confirming the change.


He is wrong.

The changes need to be legislated and so far they haven't been. They can't even agree on the wording to put before the various realms nearly a year on since agreeing to make the change - that alone should tell you just how difficult it will be to get 16 independent nations to pass identical legislation.

If William and Kate have a girl and then a boy and then The Queen, Charles and William all die before the legislation is passed in all the realms the boy will succeed.

The intention is to get the legislation through so that a daughter in the above scenario would succeed but it isn't as simple as Clegg thinks.
 
That's why I say the realms should wake up, pass the legislation, make it a new law and call it a night.
 
:previous:
Unfortunately, it's probably not that simple.

The text of the legislation probably isn't a big deal. 15 of these countries have never passed a law changing the line of succession, though, so the actual procedure has to be worked out, and it won't be the same process everywhere. For example, the Parliament of New Zealand is supreme with the ability to legislate on anything, but in Canada and Australia the federal parliaments have limited powers. In some countries, it won't require any action at all because their constitutions allow the British Parliament to make the necessary changes for them, but in others it will require more study and perhaps even the involvement of the courts to determine what action is required.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom